| The Comments |
Campogirl
I do agree that relatives have a huge pull, but cost of living does play a part.
From your list of expenses, it does indeed look cheaper to live in Spain, but of course it varies, according to where you live and your circumstances
Your electric and water bills are much cheaper than the average ex pat 's. Electricity in Spain is one of the dearest in Europe.
Hidden costs eg accountant, interpreter(if necessary) trips back to the UK and all that entails, trip to airport, flight, transport, cost of stay with relatives, treats for grandchildren, treating yourself! you always spend more than intended, Of course, some, for whatever reason eg estranged relatives, never go back, thus saving a tidy sum.
You talk of the "average Brit with few assets", well, many around here have a house or houses in the UK, and a lot of investments, so when it comes to tax here, there can be problems.
A big reason for returning is possible health problems.It's ok out here when you are physically and mentally well, but if you wait until you are too feeble to go through the selling and packing up process, it will be a nightmare. If one partner has dementia, has a stroke or other disability etc, living in Spain, unless you are wealthy enough to pay for private care in the home, would be horrendous, so we do have to think of things like that.
Dying out here can mean problems for your relatives regarding IHT and sorting out the house, assets etc. Some seem to think it's all ok as long as you have a will-yes, that just clarifies who you leave it to, doesn't exempt you from IHT! I wouldn't want to burden my husband or children with it, and since Murcia has abolished its regional IHT allowances, there's all the more reason to go while I'm reasonably fit; all this won't matter of course, if you've been enticed to put your house into a Uk limited company.
Yes, its lovely, sipping your sangria on your terrace, watching the sun go down, or picking your own lemons, or walking along the beach, and unpleasant as it is to think about illness, dying etc it has got to be faced, not left for someone else to pick up the pieces.
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Campogirl
I do agree that relatives have a huge pull, but cost of living does play a part.
From your list of expenses, it does indeed look cheaper to live in Spain, but of course it varies, according to where you live and your circumstances
Your electric and water bills are much cheaper than the average ex pat 's. Electricity in Spain is one of the dearest in Europe.
Hidden costs eg accountant, interpreter(if necessary) trips back to the UK and all that entails, trip to airport, flight, transport, cost of stay with relatives, treats for grandchildren, treating yourself! you always spend more than intended, Of course, some, for whatever reason eg estranged relatives, never go back, thus saving a tidy sum.
You talk of the "average Brit with few assets", well, many around here have a house or houses in the UK, and a lot of investments, so when it comes to tax here, there can be problems.
A big reason for returning is possible health problems.It's ok out here when you are physically and mentally well, but if you wait until you are too feeble to go through the selling and packing up process, it will be a nightmare. If one partner has dementia, has a stroke or other disability etc, living in Spain, unless you are wealthy enough to pay for private care in the home, would be horrendous, so we do have to think of things like that.
Dying out here can mean problems for your relatives regarding IHT and sorting out the house, assets etc. Some seem to think it's all ok as long as you have a will-yes, that just clarifies who you leave it to, doesn't exempt you from IHT! I wouldn't want to burden my husband or children with it, and since Murcia has abolished its regional IHT allowances, there's all the more reason to go while I'm reasonably fit; all this won't matter of course, if you've been enticed to put your house into a Uk limited company.
Yes, its lovely, sipping your sangria on your terrace, watching the sun go down, or picking your own lemons, or walking along the beach, and unpleasant as it is to think about illness, dying etc it has got to be faced, not left for someone else to pick up the pieces.
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Campogirl
I do agree that relatives have a huge pull, but cost of living does play a part.
From your list of expenses, it does indeed look cheaper to live in Spain, but of course it varies, according to where you live and your circumstances
Your electric and water bills are much cheaper than the average ex pat 's. Electricity in Spain is one of the dearest in Europe.
Hidden costs eg accountant, interpreter(if necessary) trips back to the UK and all that entails, trip to airport, flight, transport, cost of stay with relatives, treats for grandchildren, treating yourself! you always spend more than intended, Of course, some, for whatever reason eg estranged relatives, never go back, thus saving a tidy sum.
You talk of the "average Brit with few assets", well, many around here have a house or houses in the UK, and a lot of investments, so when it comes to tax here, there can be problems.
A big reason for returning is possible health problems.It's ok out here when you are physically and mentally well, but if you wait until you are too feeble to go through the selling and packing up process, it will be a nightmare. If one partner has dementia, has a stroke or other disability etc, living in Spain, unless you are wealthy enough to pay for private care in the home, would be horrendous, so we do have to think of things like that.
Dying out here can mean problems for your relatives regarding IHT and sorting out the house, assets etc. Some seem to think it's all ok as long as you have a will-yes, that just clarifies who you leave it to, doesn't exempt you from IHT! I wouldn't want to burden my husband or children with it, and since Murcia has abolished its regional IHT allowances, there's all the more reason to go while I'm reasonably fit; all this won't matter of course, if you've been enticed to put your house into a Uk limited company.
Yes, its lovely, sipping your sangria on your terrace, watching the sun go down, or picking your own lemons, or walking along the beach, and unpleasant as it is to think about illness, dying etc it has got to be faced, not left for someone else to pick up the pieces.
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Sorry for the repetition of my post. There was an error in the submission process.
hrespana has summed it up beatifully!
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Hi there JWhite
Have your daughter and SIL thought about doing an English teaching course? As long as you don't live in an area with too many Brits (for competition), there is HUGE demand in Spain to learn English. It's not cheap - I did mine in 2006 and it cost £850 in London, my husband did his out here and it was about €1200 - but it is pretty much a guarantee of a job where we are (Seville) even though there are quite a few expats here. And it's not unpleasant work; sociable, not too hard, and the hours are pretty good; I don't work Fridays or weekends, for example. I'm probably missing something, but I often wonder why more people on these forums don't do it. Even those who couldn't afford the course fees could probably make some money on the side just doing conversation classes (HrEspana, maybe?).
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Remember me Anton P it all came true and it aint over yet.
Well there is a turn up for the books. Sun and sea and sangria. Never tried the sangria and never been in the sea but i am still living in Spain. The pennies dont go as far and the pension is not all its cracked up to be. But it is Spain and i accept all that goes with it. When a country is so visably broke what can a mere mortal do. Spain should never have joined the Euro. I still rent on a yearly basis from a couple that still accept a gentlemens handshake. They have absolutely no heartache or headache i pay all the bills. I still get taken advantage of mainly by British people scratching out a pointless existance pretending to be something they are not, but such is life. Oh! and we can do it where our old friends back home cannot see us. If its over its Spains fault. People should remember that the exchange rate value of living within the Euro economy is still based on the assumption that one is getting 150 Euros to the pound. By being in the Euro Spain cannot devalue to compensate. When people get old they obviously want to take advantage of the UK NHS. The last thing they want to do is put there hands in their own pockets. It will never happed to me they say. But like death and taxes it will. When I draw the curtains and the sun shines in its great to be alive. I never do anything unless i have an option. Living with the intention of ending ones days in Spain is one hell of a decision to make. I live in Spain with no intention of total commitment. When the going gets to tough it will be time to leave. It will not get any better and if you find yourself in a position where all your eggs are in one basket remember who put the eggs there. Nobody twisted your arm but like religion you either believe or you dont. Never die with taxable money or assets. Go to the grave taxably potless. Reality is all about timing but timing like everything else takes planning and in reality nobody wants to plan. It takes effort. Tomorrow will do. I know lets go back to Blighty and it will be alright because somebody else can make the decisions i never found the time to think of tomorrow because tommorrow never comes.
Life in any country is what it is. No amount of complaint will change it. We are forieners that want to change everything to suit our selves. Remember the collective we are all part of it but have no say in how it runs it just runs oh! if only we could turn the clock back how would it be today. Better i think.
Anton P
_______________________
Antonp
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Hi Finisterre
My daughter and her partner are moving to Nerja/Torrox area so don't quite know how they will fare with work. Her partner speaks a little Spanish and will I am sure be learning Spanish fluently when he gets there. They have a friend who has been there for 40 yrs and they will be able to get advice and some pointers with regard to work no doubt, though she does admit work is hard to come by. She has spent years working for herself there as an interpreter, keyholder, apartment cleaner etc. but is now in her 70's and has given up the "manual" side of the business so hopefully they might be able to pick up some work from her. My daughter as I say is a qualified hairdresser but she only wants to work part time as a mobile hairdresser as she has back problems sometimes.
It's good to hear there is work in Seville, it must be the exception rather than the rule as most other people have advised on other forums that unemployment is running at 37% in Andalucia where they are going, so seems they will have a battle on their hands.
I am wishing them good luck and hoping for the best although fearing the worst, I hope I am wrong as they are taking all their property equity with them and can only last 2-3 yrs without regular work.
The way I look at it life is too short to go to your grave with regrets. My parents emigrated to Australia in 1960 when I was 10. They came home to the UK nearly 5 yrs later older and wiser and determined that UK was the best country to live in. My husband and I bought an apartment in Spain and had it for 8 yrs before selling 18 mths ago. We decided that the tide of the Spanish economy had turned against us and decided to keep a base in the UK no matter where or how long we spent in other countries visiting. We never regretted our experience of owning a property in Spain but would never buy there again. My parents never regretted going to Australia, my mother said it was the best experience she had ever had in her relatively unexciting life and had seen countries she would never have had the opportunity of seeing if she had not emigrated.
So what am I saying ? Well, that if it does not work out for my daughter and her partner, at least they will have fulfilled one dream before they shuttle off this mortal coil !
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I jope its not the end of tge Mediterranean dream as we have only just started ours, even as loads of folks and friends were saying "god dont buy in spain"we did a year ago. My wife was left some money when her mother died and we knew if we kept it that we would fritter it away on a new car that we dont need or buy shares that we get taxed on or it would go in various ways so we decided to do the thing we wanted to do for years and buy a place in spainthat way tge children will have there grandmother s money when we have gone and the amount by then should at least be the same. We didn't spend a large amount probably near 50k euro and no mortgage, so tge house is tgere in a small village in jaén provenance. Our only regret is now we have to wait till we can downsize in tge uk as all have flown the nest but we will keep a property in the uk just for security. We hope it works out and we get there soon to enjoy whats left of the rest of our lives
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Clasper ruby - don't forget, if you are resident in Spain, you will have to pay imputed income tax on your UK house, or on rental income if you let it out. If you sell it, you will pay CGT in Spain. Hope you have gone into the implications of being tax resident here, especially inheritance tax, assets declaration etc
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How would the Spanish know you rent out a property in the UK if you did not tell them ?
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It's a legal obligation to declare the property on the 720 assets form, and to declare the income on your tax declaration.it will feature in inheritance tax too You might never get found out, but if you do , there will be huge penalties. It's not hard for the Spanish tax office to find out all about you now so It's your risk.
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New world How would the Spanish know you rent out a property in the UK if you did not tell them
If you are tax resident in Spain, and let a property in UK then that income is taxed in UK not Spain. (although some here say you still need to inform Hacienda). It one of the few exceptions (along with income from a Government employee pension) that tax on Worldwide income is only payable in Spain.
But be aware: the HMRC and Hacienda exchange info on a regular basis, so if one knows the other can know too.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 28/04/2014.
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Hi camposl Yes I am aware of the tax situation at present but I bet it will change over tge next few years its anyone's guess. But as I have stated I will have a uk property which upon purchase will be put in my childrens name as they will have it in the end and I dont intend to spend "officially"over the 183 days per year in spain at least untill I officially retire which is over 8 years away yet. BUT, does anyone know the formula to calculate the tax liable in spain on an asset worth say £100k it could be a paltry sum like council tax and what allowances are aloud ie running the property etc. And the valu would be split between husdand and wife and is tgere a tax free allowance?
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The Mediterranean Dream is an illusion. It’s been created in the media by advertisers who invented an idea and sellers of property who invented a lifestyle in which to aspire to. The reality is somewhat different but we all love a dream don't we, even if we know in our hearts it’s illusory.
Holiday experiences do strange things to people, they believe or convince themselves that’s real life as well.
Then there are they who ‘live the dream’ and try to maintain the illusion for their own self-justification and sanity. They struggle along without much of a future saying to themselves well at least the sun shines.
Spain and other countries bordering the Mediterranean Sea do of course have good climates but there the joy tends to end. Most of the coastal regions are overpopulated and overbuilt with cheap block houses crammed together. The infrastructure in many places cannot cope both with the massive burden of population growth, drought, and waste both human and material. Add to that catastrophic unemployment, low wage jobs and lack of investment that creates sustainability and long term employment. Then there is political corruption, crime and massive illegal immigration, high taxation and living costs.
In other words these countries are just like anywhere else with the same life problems and difficulties. It's not a dream it's reality.
Believe in anything else at your peril.
_______________________
Time is the school in which we learn
Time is the fire in which we burn.
Delmore Schwartz.
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What a load of rubbish. How dare you tell us that, because you've become "disillusioned" and blasé about the whole thing then we should do. I'm enjoying my life here, thank you very much. Making up things as you've done is an out and out load of tripe. "Struggle along without much of a future." That might equate to you but certainly does not to me, thank you very much. If the "dream" has gone sour for you, I feel sorry for you. But don't ever, ever assume your feelings equate to meor the many thousands who do enjoy it here. You might as well go on any UK inner city chat site and pontificate to them in the same manner, without the weather of course. Please let me know what bars you frequent so I can avoid them.
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Micky Spain and other countries bordering the Mediterranean Sea do of course have good climates but there the joy tends to end. Most of the coastal regions are overpopulated and overbuilt with cheap block houses crammed together. The infrastructure in many places cannot cope both with the massive burden of population growth, drought, and waste both human and material. Add to that catastrophic unemployment, low wage jobs and lack of investment that creates sustainability and long term employment. Then there is political corruption, crime and massive illegal immigration, high taxation and living costs.
Just like Mariedav, please let me where you are talking about.
Having lived in Spain 27 years, I do not recognise it.
It certainly is no where that I have lived.
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Take a like for that, maridav. It's no wonder this site is being referred to "Whinge About Spain" in some quarters. Not many things make me want to swear but people for whom things have gone wrong, have bought the wrong house, picked the wrong area or are upset because they don't have the waiter serving them in their living rooms and think that everybody else should feel like they do is one of them.
Like johnzx, I don't recognise the Spain some of them (and I liked that word so I'll use it) pontificate about but I've only been here 12 years.
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Don't know what happened to my post but all I will say is this, dreams are lovely if you have money to sustain your life in another country, whether Spain or somewhere else. People who shout "lies, lies" to these nay sayers might change their tune if their homes they bought in good faith were suddenly deemed illegally purchased by the local council. Let's face it Spain is one of the most corrupt countries in the EU and you can buy a property engaging a solicitor to conduct the same in what you think is a "legal" contract and all of a sudden you are told the purchase was illegal and you have lost everything as there are no checks in place to ensure otherwise. In these situations you are unlikely to uphold the "dream" if you are left with nothing.
To think otherwise is pure naivety.
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I think Mickyfinn's post should be re-read again, what he has posted is no more then what has been said on this forum by many other members over the past few months, and for the most part...About 75% of it is the truth, and just because so far none of it has affected you personally don't make it nonetheless the reality.
Many thousands have gone to Spain and many thousands have come back, actions speak louder then words.
And before I get the big thumbs down and told I don't know what I am talking about...Yes I have lived in Spain, and a few other countries, I still own two house's in Spain, I sell goods to Spain, I love Spain and have no grudge against it at all, in fact will move out as and when.
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Casperruby, please tell us what you mean by "officially" over the 183 days........
I do hope you are not going to be one of these people who reside in Spain while pretending to be a non resident?
Johnzx- why do you not agree that rental income should be taxed in Spain and not UK?
Didn't Kathyslad put us straight on that pont?
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