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(For those who,although they speak Spanish seem to live in areas cut off from the normal news channels !!! )
Drivers in Spain are warned to watch their speed and observe all the rules of the road after details of new and amended traffic regulations became effective on 9th May under Ley 61204 modificando la Ley sobre Tráfico, Circulación de Vehiculos a Motor y Seguridad Vial 339/1990
More than 20 pages of restrictions direct that drivers may be fined for exceeding the speed limit by just 1km;
police can prosecute for motoring offences without stopping the vehicle-the registration number is sufficient;
the Guardia Civil can and will impound vehicles carrying small children without approved seats;
driving offences committed by drivers in cars registered in other European countries will be liable for fines in that country;
speed limits in some towns may drop to 20 kph.
New regulations make car drivers more responsible for the safety of cyclists and there are stiffer penalties for driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs with fines of 1,000€ or more.
The new traffic law makes Spain's roads the strictest-and potentially the most costly-in Europe.
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The way some drivers drive then I can understand why there is a need for more stringent rules. And I don't mean just the Spanish, I think some of the expats get into a "I'm abroad" mode and leave their driving skills on the plane when they come over (mind you, on my last visit to UK either driving skills have deteriorated or they have got into the I don't give a damn mindset). They could save a fortune on not putting indicators on cars as no-one seems to use them. Just yesterday, an obviously non-Spanish woman driver in an Opel Zafira pulled out on to a roundabout just as I was entering it and she didn't even look to see if anything was coming. I then followed her and she did a left turn at a roundabout, a right turn then all the around another roundabout and finally a right turn and a left turn into a supermarket. Not once did she use an indicator. There is a dual carriageway by me which has 80Km signs virtually every 100 metres. The number of hire cars which zoom past me at well over 100 kph is amazing.
Still, I could rant all day about some of the idiots.
Is that "1km" over the limit really true? In Spain, there has always been a "10%" rule so I'm wondering if that will actually stop. (I notice the Daily Mail shrieks 1km over will be a 400 euro fine when the actual listing is 100 euro fine (halved if paid within a certain time) for 1 to 15km over the limit).
Isn't the fines without stopping the car already in force in UK? Speeding fines through the post, tailgating and middle lane hogging on motorways already get fines through the post. Does worry me a little that it could be these fines with no photographic evidence maybe hard to fight against if it's simply ones word against another.
The rule about child seats is a very good one. Anyone carrying children should be aware of the reasons why these rules are brought in.
The bit about foreign drivers liable for fines is an ongoing thing. The UK has, for many years, complained that they can't prosecute foreign cars for things like speeding as it has been too difficult to follow them up.
Speed limits in some towns to drop to 20kph. Probably very limited but in our town the main street should be a very low limit. Cars parked both sides of the road (plus the Spanish love of double parking which is OK if you just put your 4 way flashers on when you go to a bank or shop), pedestrians stepping out in front of you despite pedestrian crossings every 50 metres or so, cars pulling out from side streets and so on. 20kph would probably be good here.
I thought car drivers were always at fault if they hit a bike? Well, according to your previous posts anyway. And the stiff fines for drink driving don't, IMO, go far enough. Automatic bans for life before putting them in the public stocks to be pelted with rotten vegetables would be my penalty.
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Is that "1km" over the limit really true? In Spain, there has always been a "10%" rule so I'm wondering if that will actually stop.
In UK there has been a tolerance allowed of 10%, historically from when speedo were not very accurate. However, the law means even 1 MPH is an offence. I guess that has always been so in Spain too.
Isn't the fines without stopping the car already in force in UK? Sorry this post is about Spain.
But yes it has applied for at least over 50 years in UK
Does worry me a little that it could be these fines with no photographic evidence maybe hard to fight against if it's simply ones word against another.
If you get stopped by a police officer that has always been so, his/her word.
Cars parked both sides of the road
If you think about it that usually ensures that traffic must drive slower, great for pedestrians. In Old Bexley, village (Kent) many years ago it was police policy not to prosecute for illegal parking for that very reason, it was a shopping area and the conjestion helped reduce accidents.
This message was last edited by johnzx on 16/05/2014.
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The 10% tolerance in the UK is not and never was a rule - it is purely a myth, any tolerances are there as a guideline and at the discretion of the police (advised by the ACPO).
As part of the preamble to ACPO's guidance it states "Driving at any speed over the limit is an offence"
As an example Notingham and Humberside both introduced long trem zero tolerance (not sure if it is still in force and many other forces do this occasionally) and stated that drivers should manage their own speed and NOT drive at the limit of the speed limit, the inaccuracies of any speedometer is the responsibility of the driver.
Quote from DVLA site
You mustn’t drive faster than the speed limit for the type of road and your type of vehicle. The speed limit is the absolute maximum and it doesn’t mean it’s safe to drive at this speed in all conditions.
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Actually, the 10% tolerance in Spain is also somewhat of a myth. It has never been openly recognized by the traffic authorities but it was sometimes used to compensate for calibration errors in the camera equipment that measure the vehicle's speed. Apparently, with the state of the art equipment that is being used today this tolerance is no longer necessary. We have yet to see whether the Spanish authorities will process fines for speeds of a very few kms. above the limit or whether there is going to be some margin of tolerance. I guess that if drivers will challenge the accuracy of the meters and get the fines cancelled by the Courts, the margin of tolerance might return.
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(Although my post is about the UK practice I believe it probably applies in Spain too).
I have no personal knowledge how Spain apply the law. I do know from personal experience that in the UK all police vehicles designated to catch drivers exceeding the speed limit, in my day were tested regularly (I think it was every two weeks) and their speedos re-calibrated if necessary. The traffic patrol car had very large speedos fitted to check speed, to reduce possible ‘human’ reading error, in addition to the vehicles own speedo. If a non approved vehicle (an Area Car or a panda) reported a driver for speeding the speedo had to be checked at a police garage before any prosecution was approved.
I would think that the error on speed cameras, radar guns etc. in any country is probably very low, as they can so easily be checked and re-calibrated, so a one or two MPH allowance would cover that. On the other hand, vehicle speedos can be inaccurate (they are seldom, probably never, tested after being fitted). Wear and tear on the unit, tyre pressure, tyre wear, vibration on various road surfaces, non-standard tyres, etc. can have a fairly big effect.
Police in UK did, in my time, allow 10% over the limit. I guess unless the driver was very abusive !
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The 10% thing only came about because back when it was spoken as in if you were doing 70mph on your speedo you were in fact only doing somewhere in the region of 63/5mph on the road, because...Back then....most cars had a cable (Made out of wire) operated speedo which were notorious for cable drag, sharp-ish bends, wear and tear, rust inside, plus the speedo/cable drive was from a cog in the gearbox etc, which didn't exactly help to make a 100% true speedo reading.
Now most, if not all are via the electronics of the car it's a safe bet that if you're doing 70 on your speedo..Your doing 70 on the road, have any doubts connect your sat nav and compare the two. Gives a good idea.
I have a rolling road in one of my workshops and after testing many cars with worn tyres and then new tyres , no differnce has ever been recorded in mph, and as most cars are electronicaly speedo run, ie: no moving parts, they dont wear out like they used to and give false readings, unless they pack up.
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I have a 2007 Ford Focus which although not new, is quite modern. Whilst driving on the autopista one day, I decided to see if the analogue speed dial and the trip computer would give me the same results. I set the cruise control at 120km/h and then set the av.speed on the computer which told me I was travelling at 112km/h. So, there is a 10%, difference more or less between the analogue read out and the digital read out but if the digital readout is correct, my analgue dial would have to read at over 127km/h for me to be actually over the speed limit. Therefore a 10% allowance for innacuracy wouldn't really matter if this is the same for all cars. In my opinion, the problem in Spain isn't so much a question of punishment, but more a question of education. I live in a small town and on a street with houses on one side only. Cars park on the same side as the houses and cars drive past at rediculous speeds. I can only assume that it doesn't cross people's minds that a child or animal can run out between parked cars at any time. I really feel that the Spanish 'live for the moment' mentality is what causes most problems here. They don't seem to see danger and that causes more problems than just speeding. When I'm a passenger in the car with my partner, I spend half my time with my foot buried in the floor (imaginary brake) because I've seen what I think is potential danger and either she hasn't seen it or she simply doesn't see it as potential danger. I think it's the latter. Wrecklessness is the main problem in Spain. A failure to see that the way they are driving is dangerous and that's why I think 'el trafico' should be looking at ways to stop dangerous driving. Speeding I've seen everywhere but I've never seen such wreckless, thoughtless driving like I've seen here.
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I'm amazed that the new laws don't seem to have specifically targeted mobile phone use, in our area it seems that it's a way of life for most Spanish to have one tucked under their chin.
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I do not konw why people are concerned about tolerances and limits - simple answer observe the law of the road and stay well within the speed limti then no poblem. If the speed limit is 120kph then drive at 110kph.
These new rules - read them understand them and obey them and you will have no problem.
The UK often change rules and the highway code is regularly updated. How many people realise that when they pass their driving test in the UK they sign a piece of paper with the examiner (it may even be on the full driving licence application form can't remember which) which has a clause obligating the new driver to remiain up to date with the highway code, I think the latest editon has recently been released in UK and I wonder how many poeple have read it.
Whatever country you drive in it is the responsibility of the driver to drive within the law and understand the laws of the road, if you break the law then you run the risk of being caught, fined etc
We have been given fair warning and plenty of information to these new changes in Spain so no excuses
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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The speed limits on the A7 on the Costa del Sol are artificially low in order to try and get people to pay to use the AP7 toll road. A couple of years back, they changed the speed limits from 100 down to 80 for more or less the whole stretch from Estepona to Malaga. Everybody rightly ignores the new speed limits and drive at 100 +.
Sanchez1 sorry but I cannot accept your explanation as a means to justifying speeding. Whatever the reason a speed limit is changed we are obligated (by law) to adhere to that limit. Just because everyone ignores the new speed limit does not justify their actions and make them right, they are in the wrong and they are taking an unecesary risk in getting a fine and probably putting other road users who obey the limits at risk which in my view makes them very selfish and silly - if they wish to drive faster and get to their destinations a bit quicker then pay the tolls (which are not expensive)
You say the speeds have been reduce to make people use the toll road you may well be right but.......................
I am sure many will disagree with you especially the authorities and anyone who has been a victim of an accident.
_______________________
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge”
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Sanchez The speed limits on the A7 on the Costa del Sol are artificially low in order to try and get people to pay to use the AP7 toll road.
So nothing to do with the fact that the engineering standard of the road is so inferior that the lower speed limit is essential ?
QUOTE ............... there are numerous exits from housing developments with a very short or no acceleration lane, and often the driver of the right lane is forced to sudden braking due to reckless incorporations. This applies especially to the section between Fuengirola and Marbella
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