UK LEAVING THE EU

Does anyone have a concern about the UK possibly leaving the EU.
 

I voted YES in respect of the UK joining a common trading market with it's European neighbours, I further voted Yes in respect of ratification. However I never foresaw the fall of the Soviet Union, bringing East European states into the equasion, neither did I vote for our legal system to be ruled by an all embracing European court in Brussels.

But having said all this there hasn't been a European war for close on 70 years, we declared war on Germany because they invaded Poland, and then agreed with the USA and France to hand it to Russia on the cessation of hostilities, I'm not about to talk about stopping Poles from working in the UK. 

IMHO the problem with the EU is the Euro, 18 different fiscal policies using a single currency is a recipe for disaster, as proven with the PIGS finances. I don't envisage the UK leaving the EU if it stops acting like big brother, we're just having a bit of a domestic.

Yes, however not worth getting stressed over because ,as with everything else in this life, Joe public has sans control over what problems might occur should it happen.

I dont think the uk will leave, I reckon the eu hardliners will capitulate and agree the uks demands as stated by pm today it makes sense but eu immigrating is only half the story we still have massive problems with out of eu migration which really is the elephant in the room.

As casperruby correctly states, it's not EU migration that is the problem, Cameron fell short of mentioning the M word, I can think of two politicians who won't be so reticent. 

crookesey   I voted YES in respect of the UK joining a common trading market with it's European neighbours,

I did too but I did not vote for what we have now and probably never would have.

It would be a disaster for teh UK and the EU

People need to stop looking at the hype prodcued by the medai on migartion.

The root casue is the over generous UK benfits system which needs a massive overhaul and these silly free payments reomved

I would make every UK citizen work for 4 years before they are entiltled to top up benefits and unemployment benefit

School leavers at 16 get somewhere between £50 and £70 fron the day they leave school until they find work - why???

Long term unemployed priority should be back to work and mobility

Welare - for those who really need it yes but those who can work then find work.

Wlefare payments should reduce every year for example if you lose your job then you get support for 12 months, in year 2 30% reduction, year 3 75% reduction, year 4 and beyong a big fat 0

Wened to promote a get to work, even if that means get on your bike to find work - the EU migrants do so why not UK citizens think about it Poland to say Southampton tough move. What about say Liverpool or Newcastle, to London (lazy gits won't do it)

I hope the UK does leave the EU it has become a monster that eats itself. Although immigration/migration is a huge problem there are lots more downsides to being in the "club".

Cameron is all words and no action and he will never take the UK out. Immigration would drastically reduce if tax credits, housing benefit and free health care was removed for new entrants.

One thing that could happen is the whole EU could collapse, not exactly doing well are they.

conchi

~~ Immigration would drastically reduce if tax credits, housing benefit and free health care was removed for new entrants.

I agree to some extent

If we take this option it will be discrimination and illegal in the courts whether the UK are in the EU or not. remember the open border is also applicable to EEA countries so if the UK wishes to close our borders to EuU and EEA the UK would have trouble trading and EEA / EU investment in UK would dry up

Why do the UK pay these benefits to UK citizens?

Why do the UK pay benefits to UK citizens who have never worked (often generation after generation of families).

How many UK expats in Spain (or anywhere else in UK) commute to UK to work (every weekend or every 2 weeks etc) pay UK tax, NI etc. receive benefits such as tax credits, child benefit, health care (via S1) from UK and send the money back to their familes who live in Spain (pot kettle and black)

This statement by Cameron (who is well aware of this) is pandering to the hype of  the media and a vote catcher he cannot implement or deliver this simple

This entire thing is so over hyped.

The UK could get around the rules by creative thinking. Spain did it when it moved the goalposts a Couple of years ago. Their rules for residencia are more or less the same as before they joined the EU. What could they do to the UK. Kick us out, send in the drones

The UK buys much more from Europe than it buys from us. They have a lot more to lose, including our contribution.

The rules on movement and work in the EU are the same in every country. There is no rule that says "these rules apply to all EU countries except UK". Free movement only applies for the first 3 months. After that, there is a system in place to register those who must then (and this is the exact wording from the EU)

Right to move and right of residence for up to three months

All Union citizens have the right to enter another Member State by virtue of having an identity card or valid passport. Under no circumstances can an entry or exit visa be required. Where the citizens concerned do not have travel documents, the host Member State must afford them every reasonable means in obtaining the requisite documents or having them sent.

Family members who do not have the nationality of a Member State enjoy the same rights as the citizen who they have accompanied. They may be subject to a short-stay visa requirement under Regulation (EC) No 539/2001. Residence permits will be deemed equivalent to short-stay visas.

For stays of less than three months, the only requirement on Union citizens is that they possess a valid identity document or passport. The host Member State may require the persons concerned to register their presence in the country within a reasonable and non-discriminatory period of time.

So that's pretty clear. Free movement UP TO 3 months.

Then if you want to stay more than 3 months.

Right of residence for more than three months

The right of residence for more than three months remains subject to certain conditions. Applicants must:

• either be engaged in economic activity (on an employed or self-employed basis);
• or have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay. The Member States may not specify a minimum amount which they deem sufficient, but they must take account of personal circumstances;
• or be following vocational training as a student and have sufficient resources and sickness insurance to ensure that they do not become a burden on the social services of the host Member State during their stay;
• or be a family member of a Union citizen who falls into one of the above categories
• Again, pretty clear. So all the other countries in the EU say you must have sufficient resources and sickness insurance not to be a burden on the social services. We all know Spain does this. So does France and Italy. UK doesn't even have a register of EU nationals let alone know how long they have been in the country. France and Irealand (for 2 at least) do not pay child allowance unless the child is actually living in the country. To my mind, the EU rules are open and clear. I just can't understand why UK seems to be alone in not following them. Am I missing something?

Conchi Spain did it when it moved the goalposts a Couple of years ago.

Not exactly.  All Spanish citizens are required to be registered and  have an ID card (DNI).  Thus, all other residents in Spain must also have registration. For EU citizens that is the EU Registration which lasts forever (which is not legal ID).   Non EU citizens must have a Residencia card (which is a legal ID).

NB  I was typing this when the last post was posted.

On the 10th July 2012 Spain did change the rules, here is the info from gov.uk

When I registered you just filled up a form and produced your passport, no questions, no means test.

Not to be pedantic but Spain simply enforced the rules already laid down by the EU. Yes, they changed the system by applying those rules. Now, why does the UK find it so difficult to apply exactly those same rules?

You are right about Spain Bob

Now, why does the UK find it so difficult to apply exactly those same rules?

Adult social care

Attendance Allowance

Bereavement Allowance

Bereavement Payment

Budgeting Loans

Carer's Allowance

Child Benefit

Child Tax Credit

Child Trust Fund

Cold Weather Payment

Community Care Grant

Constant Attendance Allowance

Council Tax Benefit

Crisis Loans

Disability Living Allowance

Employment and Support Allowance

Funeral Payments

Guardian's Allowance

Healthcare Travel Costs Scheme

Health Costs

Health in Pregnancy Grant

Healthy Start Scheme

Housing Benefit

In Work Credit

Incapacity Benefit

Income Support

Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit

Industrial Death Benefit

Invalidity Benefit

Job Grant

Jobseeker's Allowance

Local Housing Allowance

Maternity Allowance

Mobility Supplement

Over 80 Pension

Pension Credit

Pneumoconiosis (including asbestosis), Byssinosis and Miscellaneous Diseases Benefit

Reduced Earnings Allowance

Retirement Allowance

Return to work credit

School uniform allowances

Severe Disablement Allowance

State Pension

Statutory Adoption Pay

Statutory Maternity Pay

Statutory Paternity Pay

Statutory Sick Pay

Sure Start Maternity Grant

Tax credits

Training premium

Travel to interview scheme

Unemployability Supplement or Allowance

Vaccine Damage Payment

War Disablement Pension

War Widow's/Widower's Pension

Widowed Parent's Allowance

Widow's Pension.

Winter Fuel Payment

Working Tax Credit

It's not just the plethora of benefits that is the problem, it's the army of well paid, well pensioned publc sector jobsworths who administer these spurious payments that cost an absolute fortune in wages and pensions.

Going slightly off topic, do any of you realise that it costs £12,500 p/a for every UK family to fund teacher's pensions? 

Given the choice I would prefer to fund a Teachers pension than a couple of Romanians tax credits, housing benefit etc etc. etc.

** EDITED - Against forum rules **

a few racist comments on here

is that what the UK is coming down to racism fuelled by the media, polticians and dopeys who read and beleive it unebelievable in this day and age

we are all the same just human beings trying to do the best for our families

Racist. Don't be silly. It is discussion, even the Guardian is doing it.