Want to turn dream to reality

Some nice properties for rent at MCC http://www.longtermlettings.com/find/rent/?searchmode=SubmitSearch&s=s&sess=182196675&scr=Spain&srg=Murcia&sct=&sltcity=Mazarron+Country+Club&txtCityOrTown=or+enter+your+City%2FTown&sltbedrooms=&sltFurnished=&sltpool=&sort=asc&sltlocality=&sltpricerange=&txtkeyword=&ctype=GBP     

camposol

They're usually the ones who say Spain is a stress free  place to live, and SO much cheaper, which I suppose it is if their tax liability is ignored.

I can only hope they get their comeuppance

Why do you make things so difficult? We have done everything properly. Registered on the EU citizens register within a month of moving over here. Registered for tax purposes on my interest and pensions. Signed on the padron and got a healthcard for both of us. Use the Spanish NHS. Drive a Spanish registered car. Even changed our UK licenses to Spanish ones.

I say Spain is a stress fee place. It is SO much cheaper (I don't pay nearly 170 quid a month council tax for a start) and I do pay my tax liability which is lower than UK. We have funeral plans in place and our financial adviser tells us the IHT one of us will have to pay if one of us pops off will be around €200. My fuel bills (electric only) are about the same as they were in UK with electric and gas and my water bills are about half what my UK rates were.The only extra bill I get is the 150 euro a year we pay to the solicitors for doing our tax returns and everything else that may crop up.

You keep harping on about declaring assets in UK as if they are taxed but they aren't. They are simply declared. There is no tax taken off those assets. Of course, any interest on those assets is taxed but they are in UK as well.

So please explain what "comeuppance" am I going to get?

Back to the OP. You don't say if you have a family or not which would be important for schooling etc. Could you just come over for 6 months and see how things go? Keep your house in UK. Pay rent here and if your outgoings are too much then you could just return to UK and visit once in a while. If you do settle in, find jobs (which will be the difficult thing considering unemployment in Spain is around 24% which is more than double the EU average) and a house you like, then make the decision to stay here.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Mariedav- I think it is pretty obvious that I am only referring to those living under the radar ,  eg not paying taxes and registering on the foreigners register, not people like yourself who are doing things legally!

Spain is not stress free for many people, neither is it that cheap any more. Electricity is horrendous here, the cost has increased hugely over recent years.

Unfortunately, if someone is living in a region where there are no IHT allowances,  like Murcia, then it is likely they will have a lot to pay.

Just because everything is fine and dandy for you does not mean it is for everyone

duplicated

Camposol,

You are partially right on one point, the price of electricity is more than in UK, well at least it is per kilo watt hour.  But we find we use considerably less electricity in Spain, so the actual amount payable is less.  You missed water which is more expensive, but in the scheme of things still a minor cost.

Virtually every other major commodity is cheaper.  People are getting excited that petrol in the UK is a bit cheaper, but still a lot more than in Spain.  Food prices are also generally less and a lot of fresh produce is virtually given away at your local market in Spain and the quality is superb.  The cost of labour is considerably less - recently I had a garage mechanic repair the door mechanism on my car which took the guy an hour - and I was charged €15 - what do you think that would that cost in the UK?

You've mentioned Inheritance Tax a few times, but if you stay non-resident your only asset they can tax is your Spanish property and for most people this is not a major issue.  If you are resident and it's of real concern you rent and leave your cash in one of these 4% bonds, or elsewhere.  Or you buy the property in your children's name, or you form a UK company that owns the property.   There are lots of other options too, it's not like you're trapped - you make your choice.  Or like most folk you make a Spanish will, opting out of the Spanish system and enjoy the fabulous Spanish climate & lifestyle.

I have no problem with people minimizing their tax and status in Spain with legal means. What makes me very angry is the attitude of a minority of British people behaving in a manner for which they would risk jail time in the their own country

I have employed many tradesmen both in France and Spain. In Spain everything is cash in the pocket no questions asked and no receipts given. In France if you tried that the trades people would report you for simply making the suggestion.

I know many Spanish people do the same but that does not mean Brits have to follow their example. Play by the rules or don’t play at all.

Utility standing charges are very high in Spain because so many properties stand empty and everything has 21% IVA added. The cost comparisons with the UK are misleading to people who are other EU nationals. France for example has cheap electricity because of nuclear power. Property taxes are very low in some departments and running a car is very cheap.

acer- I know the methods you mention to reduce IHT , and the fact is, they all have disadvantages.Briefly:

Investing in UK company, that is questionable  and not adviseable for your average expat

Putting it in  children's names, what if they die?  loss of control over property, other factors make this i advisable

Become non resident- not if you live in Spain in your only property

Making a Spanish will does not exempt  you from IHT, it just identifies who you want your assets to go to 

In Murcia people are unfortunate as the regional allowances have been abolished; previously it was hundreds of thousands,now, only a pittance from the state of just under 16 k

So it could mean, live in Murcia pay thousands, live in Valencia, pay nothing. Unfair, or what!

The Inheritance tax situation is a major factor when deciding to retire to Spain, and now it matters even more when you choose where to live.

Sunshine is all very well, but it's not everything!

Sunshine is all very well

Spouses should be exempt from IHT, anyway.! A major overhaul of IHT is supposed to be underway to even out these regional differences, and make it fairer. That is the unlucky answer to the IHT problem

duplicate

Campsol,

I know you have strong feelings on the matter, which I understand but this thread is about someone asking for advice before moving to Murcia.  The possible pitfalls have been flagged and it would be good if this thread reverted to the original subject.

You mention the Valencia region, but it's a few degrees colder and a lot wetter this time of year.  I used to have a place there and moved south for that reason.  But Valencia city is a fabulous place.  Having said that Murcia city is worth a visit too.

I have no problem with people minimizing their tax and status in Spain with legal means. What makes me very angry is the attitude of a minority of British people behaving in a manner for which they would risk jail time in the their own country

I have employed many tradesmen both in France and Spain. In Spain everything is cash in the pocket no questions asked and no receipts given. In France if you tried that the trades people would report you for simply making the suggestion.

I know many Spanish people do the same but that does not mean Brits have to follow their example. Play by the rules or don’t play at all.

Utility standing charges are very high in Spain because so many properties stand empty and everything has 21% IVA added. The cost comparisons with the UK are misleading to people who are other EU nationals. France for example has cheap electricity because of nuclear power. Property taxes are very low in some departments and running a car is very cheap.

I note Mickyfinn that you say the "Minority of British People", I think you might find it's the "Majority" in the UK who love to avoid paying tax, I would say on just about everything if they could get away with it, and the biggest reasons are the way the governments fiddle the books, fiddle the exe's for them selves, lie over just about everything they say, put up the workers taxes' to cover the governments short comings, and to pay out for government gold plated pensions.

I could be talking about the same thing for Spain, as I am sure the working people of Spain feel exactly  the same way, I don't even think it's the "Spanish way" handed down through the years, I wouldn't like to bet who started this first, Brits or Spaniards.

Cant agree with you about France being any different either, one close friend owns 4 Gites and a B & B with a fishing lake, talk to his French customers about giving an invoice out..Nope...Cash in hand.

It's ingrained in many people to avoid tax, do cash in hand work, there is a way to, not stop it altogether but maybe slow it down, but Spains, England's, Frances, and most of the other governments wont have anything to do with it.

Not saying it's the right way to run your life, but if it enables you to live, then so be it.

Valencia- wetter, but generous IHT allowance

Murcia - warmer, no IHT allowance 

Hmmmmm.........can't decide!

Sue the original poster asked how to turn a dream into reality. I hope we have all enlightened her on here with the actualité a little.

A bit more reality and less dreaming saves you a lot of grief  in the long term but dreaming is so much more enjoyable.

Hi Sue,

I have read what you have to say and all the comments are true BUT please don't let this get you down. Both my husband and I live very frugally but well, we go out for tappas every lunchtime this is our chance to speak with the locals and get to know what is going on (my spanish is lousy but the locals laugh at me) cost very low especially as we gain in enjoyment and spend a good couple of hours each day on this. We find our local supermarket  is very good and we keep our costs low with lots of fresh veg and salads fish and chicken. Yes we have a car as we live in an area with no facilities in walking range, and still manage to have a few outings further afield now and then. The weather makes it all OK, people watching with a coffee or glass of wine is very low cost and a fantastic way of spending a part of your day. In England the weather prohibits people watching but there is nothing better than sitting in the sun watching what others get up to.

Go for it and enjoy.

Mo

Hi Sue,

I have read what you have to say and all the comments are true BUT please don't let this get you down. Both my husband and I live very frugally but well, we go out for tappas every lunchtime this is our chance to speak with the locals and get to know what is going on (my spanish is lousy but the locals laugh at me) cost very low especially as we gain in enjoyment and spend a good couple of hours each day on this. We find our local supermarket  is very good and we keep our costs low with lots of fresh veg and salads fish and chicken. Yes we have a car as we live in an area with no facilities in walking range, and still manage to have a few outings further afield now and then. The weather makes it all OK, people watching with a coffee or glass of wine is very low cost and a fantastic way of spending a part of your day. In England the weather prohibits people watching but there is nothing better than sitting in the sun watching what others get up to.

Go for it and enjoy.

Mo

Acer

You missed water which is more expensive, but in the scheme of things still a minor cost.

Really? When we left UK 3 years our annual water rates were £345 a year. That was Severn Trent which has, over the last 3 years, cut their rates to "the lowest in England" at £291 which is "around £50 less than the average bill".

Now, my water bills here come to between 60 and 70 euro a quarter. Even the highest makes it €280 a year which is rather a lot less than I would be paying now in the "lowest in England" area.

Surely it all depends on whether you have a pool, how many showers, and how long, watering garden, power washing terraces etc?

Mariedav, you obviously don't do too badly.  As a non-resident I am forever hit by expensive minimum charges, but not a big deal.

Well Sue

There's much to dwell on,your mind is probably doing backflips.

Well I decided not to go back to Spain,[buy].I now live in Bulgaria,that was 6+ years ago,and you talk about laid back,horizontal doesn't come near.Needless to say,my other half and I,+6 dogs live the laid back lifestyle,plus the added bonus for us,is that you have the traditional four seasons,not just the baking hot summer for most of the year.

Cheap to live,you bet.

Good luck anyway with what ever you decide,by the way I lived up in Oliva for 3 years,and enjoyed it,but that was before all the crash and turmoil which has happened since..

M 

The biggest mistake of my life was to move to Estepona 9 years ago.  Think long and hard and try not to keep too much money in a Spanish Bank (even Barclays).  Now we are even supposed to change our driving licenses.  Its a minefield here.  If you Really have to come DO NOT BUY.  Communities are the worst part of Spanish life.  I wish you luck.  The South of France is much preferable and the flights are cheap and only 1 1/2 hours from UK.

Good luck.  You will need it if you come here.  Read Ghosts os Spain by Giles Tremlett it may give you an insight into the Spanish "mind".

Susan