My Offer has been accepted

If any body wants a MASA property they can go this Sunday to the road show AT Brentwood  https://www.masainternational.com/

Come and join us at The Spanish Property Show

5th March, from 11am - 4pm at the Holiday Inn, Brentwood

Hi inspectathome. 

It would be lovely to start the world again from 2011 and ignore everything's that's happened to many, many good hard working people who invested in a home that was never finished or they were ripped off.  The problem you may face when posting here is that your meeting many people who don't trust the market, or what's happened in the past (which goes back before 2011,  history is much longer than that).

I long suspected that the amount of land the builders could acquire did relate to the amount of deposit they took from off plan buyers. If there is a secure account at a bank which is directly through a builders efforts, there may be an opportunity for builders to borrow from banks at low to no interest and keep the front end going, without building the Ines they promised.

i believe that is one of the reasons the market went down, and yes it was bank greed and builder greed that made it happen.

Even if we subscribe to the theory that the world of building houses began in 2011, carrying on buying off plan and issuing deposits with no physical return is just handing over cash with nothing to show for it, on the valuation of the builder and the promises, promises technique.    

Keep doing this and the banks, builders and estate agents will love it.   The consumer is heading for another chapter of heartache in time.  

Newwolrd I hope you are going to stand outside with a placard telling people not to buy Masa as they left The good people of Camposol with a unfinished site that will cost €15 MILLION to complete (  Bastards are what they are ).

I will, but only if you & inspectahomespain ( Roy ) will join me ???

It is unfortunate in life that the truth is so difficult to establish. In the off plan business you are mainly dealing with SPIVS.

Why not come clean, is OFF PLAN NOW:-

1. A 100% safe way to buy a property that will be exactly as described including the infrastructure.

2. Or an investment gamble where you could loose all your money invested.

Ignore all the BS. Please somebody show me a development anywhere, started in the last 3 yaers, that hasn't been finished, show me  a posting, an article, a tweet, carrier pidgeon message, anything, there have been hundreds of new off plan properties where owners have completed 2015 to date, with NO PROBLEMS, hundreds of new finished projects, Oasis Beach 9 completed projects.

So inspectahomespain if it goes wrong we can have your villa instead can we?

Yes potblack thats the truth.

I hadnt realised it was 2015 that the world started at!   My last comments should be read with 2011 taken out and 2015 put in.  (as below)

Hi inspectathome. 

It would be lovely to start the world again from 2011 and ignore everything's that's happened to many, many good hard working people who invested in a home that was never finished or they were ripped off.  The problem you may face when posting here is that your meeting many people who don't trust the market, or what's happened in the past (which goes back before 2011,  history is much longer than that).

I long suspected that the amount of land the builders could acquire did relate to the amount of deposit they took from off plan buyers. If there is a secure account at a bank which is directly through a builders efforts, there may be an opportunity for builders to borrow from banks at low to no interest and keep the front end going, without building the ones they promised.

i believe that is one of the reasons the market went down, and yes it was bank greed and builder greed that made it happen.

Even if we subscribe to the theory that the world of building houses began in 2011, carrying on buying off plan and issuing deposits with no physical return is just handing over cash with nothing to show for it, on the valuation of the builder and the promises, promises technique.    

Keep doing this and the banks, builders and estate agents will love it.   The consumer is heading for another chapter of heartache in time.  

Firstly thanks for all the reply's, I never thought asking for advise on closing out a sale would lead to a such a response to buy off the plans, which I haven't, the community is around since 1980 and is second hand. Thanks again

The biggest problem in 2011 was that people were not properly advised and even back then I was writing advice pices, on this forum which are still there saying, get a legal BG, don't comolete with the First Occupancy Licence and yes some agents did not tell people this, evem back them, as now, this the the law. On Camposol if people had been properly advised they would have been able to claim against a BG

When a developer didn't issue a BG they did not put funds into a secure account, they used the money, because they needed it to fund the build, double whammy when on places like Corvera people then, dud to the falling property values and lack of promised facilities, said not going to complete now, cheaper to lose my deposit and walked away

Now there are still some builders out there who do not provide a BG, personally I will not touch them for my clents, even some that try to charge extra if you want a BG, because it costs the builder

Nowadays the banks control funding much more closely and even inspect and chack build progress, but no longer sponser the build

Potblack, we are not all SPIVS as you describe us, over the last 3 years I have sold a good mix of new, resale and bank repos and I am able to go back to ANY of these people for refferences, even one where initally the sellers refused to move out on completion day

MASA still promote new developments, still act as a agent and they are a developer, for a variery of reasons that I will not promote, especially their developments around Gran Alicant

Potblack or anybody please show me a new development started within the last 3 years with a problem

I will not ignore that yes new build properties have to be checked, before completion, that's why I still have a successfull snagging business, snagging lists are shorter now but there are still problems but you can still have problems with resales wihen the AC doesn't work or the roof leaks and I don't live in a villa, a modest townhouse does me and the wife, which I bought 10 years ago and if I sold I would lose money on

You still have not answered the questions put to you.

Which question would that be, would I give a buyer my villa, sorry townhouse if the system failed, of course not, the system there to protect the buyer, if they follow the rules and has not let me down in the last 3 years or on the 5 new build properties that I have bought in Spain over the last 10 years, or on the many nnew build properties that I have sold

However perhaos I am a lying SPIV who is only doing this to make money

Is the system 100% safe, yes if you follow the rules, back in 2006 both myself and Maria were writing articles to advise people on the process, see link below, I have never changed that advice and it is as true now as it was in 2006 when I wrote it

The problem is if it looks too good to be true then it normally is, in 2011 the properties being offered on places like Camposol were probably some of the cheapest in Spain, based on size and facilities

Also one from Maria below in 2006

https://www.eyeonspain.com/spain-magazine/completing-checks.aspx

https://www.eyeonspain.com/spain-magazine/bank-guarantee-renting.aspx

inspectahomespain I never called you  Spiv but stated many in the industry are.

So we are clear, you say OFF PLAN is 100% safe and there are no risks whatsoever.

Fair enough, thank you.

I didn't say that what I said was if the buyers follow the rules, employ the right level of legal support the the system is there to protect the off plan buyers, it has always been there, but unfortunatley buyers have not listened to advice

As you said in a previous post below, this means that you are therefore saying that we are by default SPIVS that are selling off plan properties which is unfair and not true, the kley word being mainly, do you have any real evidence, based on the CURRENT sales market that this is true, there are hundreds of very good established agents

It is unfortunate in life that the truth is so difficult to establish. In the off plan business you are mainly dealing with SPIVS.

inspectahomespain I think you are now changing your statement.

Buyers are just laymen, they know very little, and quite rightly have to listen to  advice as you say. But who’s  advice, Spiv the agent self interest advice, the builders self interest advice, the banks self interest advice, the lawyers advice, some good, some incompetent, some corrupt.

How does the Off Plan innocent buyer know who to believe. Are you still saying Off Plan is 100% safe with no risks.

At no time have I changed my statement on this, evem going back to the numerous articles that I have written back in 2006

The SPIV agent as you put it should, as in my case, be ntetested in maintaining a business, not just one deal for the sake of a sale and should be experienced enough to give one level of advice

The builder will provide full information on the project, licence, terms, specification and guarntees which will be given to the buyers independant lawyer, they work for the client, not the agent or builder, well not in my case anyway and will check everything BEFORE any money is exchanged

Unless you are having a mortgage, whicih if you are buying off plan, can only be agreed in priniciple, ARE NOT involved, nowadays they have not funded the project but agian the lawyer checks the validity of the BG

Please, please, please, show me any evidence for property purchases made off plan, in the last 3 years where people have lost money form the hundreds that havd completed

As I said before follow the rules and the systems are there to support you, proven history, I like facts not opinions

inspectahomespain ‘’proven history’’

As far as I am aware the only recent changes have been weaker laws of protection for Off Plan buyers. Am I correct.

So  proven history means there have never been major Off Plan, problems, scams and corruption (well not in your fairyland).

** EDITED - Against forum rules **

Why not tell Brian and all the 1,000s of others who have been fighting battles for years to get their stolen life savings back. So a few Of Plan have been sold in the last 3 years, so what?

This message was last edited by potblack on 02/03/2017.

I am not rising to your insult only realising that people unfortunatley only attack when they cannot justify their comments

If I am as described the biggest BS shoveller I have ever come across then I am one who has been advising people on here for the last 11 years and I am still around

Potblack, do you even own a property in Spain. have you ever bought a property in Spain and did you have any problems with the purchase, please answer this

As I continue to say please show me off plan developments which have gone wrong over the last 3 years, yes of course there have been problems in the past and I am sure there will be in the future but just to brand everybody as the same, in the way that you do, is just plain ignorance

You now say ‘’yes of course there have been problems in the past and I am sure there will be in the futire’’

But you still say Off Plan is 100% safe with no risks.

The thing is Inspecathome.

The bank guarantees were issued in a lot of cases in the historical property sales, yet these still have to fight battles to be recognised and paid out through the courts.

The lawyers rightly say you can claim interest on your deposits, by law.

But this takes many years.  If the sales brochures said the information below, I guess it would be honest but wouldnt sell many properties (which would be a good thing IMHO).

Buy an off plan property from us and we will tell you what it is valued at, by us, and promise you it will go up in value when we talk to you and be a good investment, because we say so.

The real facts we will not tell you are:  You will be covered by a bank guarantee that will take around 6 to 10 years to enforce if anything goes wrong, and you will have to pay thousands of euros to take it to court, being another cost you will have to find as well as your deposit.

The recent history of off plan properties has been that they may not get completed, they will not realise the amount you are paying for them if they do, also they will almost definately take longer to complete than the contract says and there is no guarantee the site will be completed as it shows on the brochure.

Now thats what I call something like honesty (both before and after 2015 I reckon)

I will keep repeating this, please somebody provude details of any property development, new build that has gone wrong since 2015

I have also said don't rely on your purchase as an investment, don't rely on rental income, buy something to use and enjoy

I disagree, it does not take 6-10 years to enforce and more recently it has mainly been the people that didn't have BG that have had to fight to recover their money, which is happening because of a number of rulings

Again I will ask Briando do you have personal experience of this or are you just quoting on what you have read

For some reason sales are dramatically up, are all of these people so easily conned and I am happy to show anybody dozens of fully completed sites and completed villas in this area

Hi Roy,

Yes I have a court case pending and a property contract purchased in 2005.  The property was for our own use and an anticipted retirement property in the future.  Exactly the reasons to buy you are promoting in your words.

So....A guarantee that was promised didnt materialise, the builder went into administration which cost one lot of fees, the administration promised the builder would pay a percentage of the amounts owed but this action just bought time for the builder to go into full insolvency.  The original lawyer didnt even mention Ley57/1968 and took our money saying its all we can hope for.  Good eh.

The option of taking the banks to court was the excellent work of another buyer, (my original lawyer advised against it and cost us high fees for nothing really).

Our current lawyer is very good and having success (although we get frustrated by the system very often).

So in summary, I dont trust the property builders, sellers, paperwork or court system as far as I can throw them, for good reason.  If you want to risk everything you have, buy off plan in Spain (2005, 20015, 2017, any year as far as I can see).  If Spain wants people like me to invest in the future, first it needs to give me my money back and second it will require much more than someone telling me all is OK and to do my own research about 'please somebody provude details of any property development, new build that has gone wrong since 2015'.

Thats not my job, its the job of all the parties, agents etc to prove it to me now, lifes too short to take somebodies word for it.  

Or of course, Spain can find more gullible people like me in the future by saying everything is now OK.

Hope that helps answer the question to some degree.