My Offer has been accepted

So I can we now have the list of builders that you would not touch and have not touch in the last 3 years ?

Elsie Tanner why is you response so insulting to me

I stand by my postings and ask again, please somebody prove me wrong, somebody that has purchased a new off plan propery, within the last 3 years and had a problem

You reserve a property, you have the contracts checked before paying, all payments are protected, the property get delivered, with facilities or you don't complete

You have no proof or evidence to call me a compulsive fraudster, my happy  clients don't agree

As I explained there are a few including MASA but basically it is easy to find them,

any builder that does not provide a BG

Any builder that doesn't offer a BG and wnhere they ask you to buy the land and explain that that is your guarntee, you own the land

Any builder that in their contract includes an abbusine clause regarding contractual completion dates and where the contrcat doesnt include the simultaneous completeion of the facilities, pools, gardens etc

Yes we all get the Masa story, but please name the others, you keep saying you won't touch certain builders but yet you won't name, I've got a good idea why you won't name them but please prove me wrong.And name let's say half a dozen ?

The problem is it changes as promoters change, for the example the MASA thing is nothing to do with their history but what they are doing in Gran Alicant

A promoter called Grupo Uno had a problem when at one time they stopped having BG's available, now they have an insurance bonded system in place, nothing wrong in the past with their quality or delivery times but could not expose the client to the risk

A couple of builders in the country Rios and Constractu, again no BG's you but the plots and there's at least 5 more of those smaller builders that people wouldn't know

2 developers on Serena golf DIEDRIKA and SERENA VILLA, been launched long time, very slow progress, no showhouses and again you buy the land

As I said I have to track and check, prior to viewings often

Hello all,

I started this trend hoping to get advise on how I should  proceed in completing the purchase of our new home and to make sure we don't miss anything and have every base covered, it has turned into a slagging match and completely off topic, if ye want to talk about off-plan homes, please start another trend

I am really sorry and you are correct you asked a valid question and I answered it, see below, simple answer and then all hell broke lose

Unfortunatley on this forum there is a group of regular posters how are anti spain and this used to be a brillant place to pass on advice, now it often juist gives people the chance to attack others

Many of the original posters have gone, it is very easy to be an anonmous poster

Hi Fhanrah.  

Yes it's been an ordeal for you sorry!!   

I hope you got the impression though, that it's not a trustworthy process in Spain based on our comments.   When you get to a stage of completion there should be a solicitor working on your behalf who ensures all your 'bases are covered', that's what happens in a regulated procedure.  

So, ensure you have a trustworthy lawyer and don't leave anything to chance.  Some advice in places like this may be less than you need.   

Many of the original posters may have gone to the housing graveyard that you need to avoid!,,

lawyer, lawyer, lawyer.   Believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see!!!

Hi Fhanrah,

Yes, you did ask a simple question and I hopefully gave you a helpful response with respect to obtaining a lawyer and some things to look out for as posted on the UK government website.

Unfortunately the very next post was inspectahome extolling the virtues of buying off plan and telling everyone it was 100% safe when it very clearly isn't.

As per previous advice, get yourself a good, independent lawyer.

Good luck.

inspectahome wrote:

"as we all know the market changes and so do consumer laws and what hasn't been mentioned was that the CNN article was actually in 2009, Duncan check your facts"

OK Roy, here are the facts

Ley 20/2015 repeals an almost half-century-old law about bank guarantees that in recent years – thanks to a series of pro-consumer decisions by the Supreme Court – has heavily favoured purchasers in disputes with developers, banks and insurers.

• The first change concerns a buyer’s right to demand a refund of sums paid in advance (and that are guaranteed by a bank or insurance company), in the event the developer does not deliver the property on time. Until now, this right could not be waived. From next January (2016) it may be, allowing an unscrupulous developer to slip such a clause into a contract.
• Secondly, buyers used to be covered for all amounts advanced to a developer, even those paid prior to the granting of a building license which can take months to secure. But from 2016 on, you can only recoup funds paid once a license has been granted.

This new legislation leaves buyers in a significantly more vulnerable position, restricting their rights, curtailing guarantee periods and making the process of putting in a claim much more bureaucratic than before

Which part of that law change inspired you to change from advising clients to not buy off plan to advising them that it was now more safe, in fact 100% safe to do so?

As an aside, for the clients you are selling off plan villa properties to on Las Terrazas de la Torre to on Monday, properties which do not have building permits, are you going to tell them that there are no building permits and that their bank guarantees won't cover their deposits?

From current experience when advising clients while buying off plan, the presence of a good independent lawyer with deep knowledge of off plan Law is essential as of course, developers are still willing to sign contracts which compromise many rights of the residential buyer.

Not just regarding the guarantees but  also on:

- Penalty clauses when buyer breaches the contract

- Related costs and expenses

- Changes in the technical project

- Election of Notary

- Completion deadline and first occupation license

- Description ( squared meters) of the property

I am sure that people are getiing really fed up with these attackes on the forum so I will try to keep this simple as it sems that the date of the article has been ignored

Again I base my comments on buying off plan on the CURRENT situation, the facts that humdreds of people have completed on off plan properties in the last 3 years without a single develper going bust, failing to deliver the property, facilities, which includes Oasis Parks 1-9, TM 5 seperate developments, hundreds at Mill Palmerous and around Lo Pagan, villas on the Mar Menor, a very long list

In my posts I have explained that in order to buy you must have a good lawyer and follow the rules highlighting  that yes the building licence has to be isuued BEFORE you pay and that the contract must have a agreed completion date for the property and include the facilities, IT IS IN MY POSTS,

I have refused to sell properties that don't have permits and BG's, I can highligt a developmemt on the front in Los Alcazares where this is happening right now, the builder is reserving properties but not taking any money till he has the licence, so YES i will tell people, the sale isn't everything

What inspired me to change my mind, from 8 years ago, was the change in market, the change where developers are not trying to build vast projects, where the proof is the fact that there are hundreds of completed developments with happy clients, is that OK for the lynch mob, people really should get out more and have a look at whatis happening now

Hey sunshine, I got lynched not you   

My lynch mob was builders and sales agents, don't think for a second I am taking any advice from you or any other agent or developer.  

From where I am coming you should have said to the poster, you should have had a lawyer from the start, your vulnerable if you don't instruct one straight away to ensure the completion is done fairly and properly because there are some pretty nasty people out there.

instead what you chose to say is that everything is much safer and better now because you are selling property all the time with no issues    Well those issues can and will come back, save that advice for another day, it appears the people who disagree with you are wanting to lynch you Roy.   No, they are saying you should be more careful in what you say. 

Sorry Fhanrah but please keep taking notes, it does feed into your overall knowledge I think!!!!

Nothing was correct in the way that the developers and agents treated people in this time, I was heavily involved in advising people, not as an agent and I did not sell properties at that time but actually worked with the gooid lawyers trying to resolve quality issues

My website thesnaggingforum still provudes practical advice for people buying in Spain

In Hellen I was sent to independantly cehck the build quality and I was the first to highlight the lack of any effeicent damp proofing and the lack of any steel ties in the walls

At the time I continually advised people and these articles are in the public domain on this and many other forums, no BG no payments, get the property independantly checked before you complete, manage and monitor the repair process and finally DO NOT complete without a Certificate of Habitation, my advice has never changed

We would have to check a property when snaggung 6-7 times before repairs were completed

I should not be judged based on history, agemts are not all SPIV's and scumbags

Hello Roy again

Your expert professional snagging business.

''In Hellen I was sent to independantly cehck the build quality and I was the first to highlight the lack of any effeicent damp proofing and the lack of any steel ties in the walls''

For the benefit of everyone could you please advise us what professional industry qualifications you hold. For example are you Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) accredited?

inspectahome said "I am sure that people are getiing really fed up with these attackes on the forum so I will try to keep this simple as it sems that the date of the article has been ignored"

Actually Roy, you attacked me and said that I should check my facts. I did and presented them to you. As usual when faced with facts that are contrary to the misleading opinions that you spout on this forum, you ignore the questions, go on the defensive and accuse everyone of being a lynch mob.

The fact is, as Maria has pointed out, buying off-plan is a risky way to buy property. It is a legal minefield. It is more risky now than it was when you wrote that article yet you are now telling everyone it is 100% safe.

As Maria said "a good independent lawyer with deep knowledge of off plan Law is essential". Even then, there are lawyers around who are not as competent as they should be. Worse, there are others who live in the pockets of the developers. Even if you do everything right and get all the guarantees it can take years fighting through the courts to get your money back if the development goes wrong.

Those Roy, are the facts. Not an attack, not a lynch mob.

However, I will call you out. You said on page 1 of this topic "What ads is correct about is licencing, if there is not a building licence then they cannot issue aa BG and the other trend is for builders to try and say that first you buy the land, no BG, I will not promote these properties, don't pay anything in cash"

Yet yesterday you gleefully sent me a gloating private message that said "Villas are selling well on Terrazes, I have not sold one yet but have people there on Mondau so here's hoping" You know these off-plan villas do not have a building licence. So which is it Roy?

You also repeatedly ask for examples from the last three years where buying off-plan has gone wrong. Why don't you ask the buyers of off-plan properties in blocks 271 and 272 on Las Terrazas what their experiences have been buying off-plan from the same developer who it now touting the villas? You don't really need to look far to find problems with off-plan purchases today, never mind since 2015 or whenever you want to restart Spanish property history from.

My advise to all when purchasing a property in SPAIN, 

Look on the internet for a Spanish Government department of  Certifies Property Lawyers,

This should give you the information and advice to choose the right Lawyer.

After taking advice from the Property agent who recommended a very poor Lawyer who left us with many problems over the last 10 years, its worth finding one you choose from the Official

SPANISH GOVERNMENT CERTIFIED LIST

And the points made by the last three posters on here are exactly what an agent and developer should be making sure happen.  To protect consumers and their own industry.

it should also be regulated by the Spanish Government too, they need to step up to the plate and ensure its a properly regulated and trustworthy industry.

also Roy, checking that damp course membranes and steel wall ties are in place is not 'snagging', how on earth can you check steel ties are present and underfloor or hidden membranes are present after a build is completed.  That should be done by the local building control inspectors (perhaps they don't have them in Spain!!).  

The reason that it could be checked in because the propertues were in various stage

I don't know the system of building regulation in Spain, I admit.  

If I take an instruction from a client on a new build (nhbc or architect certificate) I will visit first to inspect ground conditions, then footings and drainage, then damp course and oversite work.   

Various inspections including types of materials used and British standards applied, wall ties fitted per square metre and increased at apex and restraint straps at piers, diaphragm and buttress elements.   Timbers used, stress grading, roof tile fixings, etc, etc,etc.  

That is a project undertaken by a building surveyor.

Snagging is looking at something when it's finished for any obvious defects or poor workmanship.

So which one are you Roy, any professional indemnity and liability ata all?   Higher education qualifications? 

It would be really nice to know that Spain has such exacting standards and I can relax and not get fooled again.