Forums

I find it quite strange and almost amusing that there are "grown ups" out there who  try to bully people via internet forums. I'm not sure of all what goes on in other forums or why "the bucket club" was removed (I don't believe it matters) on this site, but surely as "grown ups" peolpe can express themselves and their opinions without the attitude !!!

I've always found the replies to the questions I've posted to be either useful or very useful (thanks to everyone for that),  so I make a note of the useful replies and then pass on that info wherever possible, the really usefull stuff I just keep to myself !

Maybe though when I'm a "grown up" I might understand the small minded individuals that "ridicule, back bite, etc...".other forum users, but I doubt it.

HI Scrufty - I think sometimes they just get carried away with their banter - if they could disengage themselves from what they are doing and read it as an outsider I think all would be revealed to them. Its a shame as this particular forum I refer to is now changing in that there are the same people who go on every day and block up the board - others just run scared or being ridiculed - or even worse, some come over down right nasty.

However, having said all that it is true that the written word can come over extremely wrong and most of these people are probably just having a laugh, admittedly at others expense.

It is a shame because the forums themselves are a valuable source of information and I for one would be more than pleased to pass on what (little) information I have.

scrufty

at the moment (touch wood) i think people on this forum seem to be pulling roughly in the same direction. There is support not only for those making a life in Spain, but also for those of us who for years have been fighting the known sharks to get justice, and in many cases to get their life savings back. Due to the fact that it seems the only way forward for us to get justice is to expose not only the bad agents/lawyers/developers, but the whole Spanish system as much as possible, our posts on this site and much more so on the other main site, can come over very much as 'doom & gloom'!!.  When your situation is rather 'doom & gloom', then the last thing you need is people criticising you for that attitude and saying 'why are you so negative?'   On the other hand, people who are content or trying to rent or sell their property, (not suprisingly) don't want their area/appartment block slagging off. This group also includes those who are trying to make a living, and want as little bad publicity as possible. Those of us with massive breaches of contract need to do just the opposite to raise awareness in an effort to stop the rot, 'tell it like it is' and do everthing we can to get justice.  I think much of the bad feelings of the past on this and the other forum stem from this situation of   'depends which side of the fence you are on'  

My feeling is that we all wanted much the same thing in the first place, to either live/work in Spain or have a nice holiday home, with as little hassle as possible in a reasonable society. Hopefully now the 'bad apples'  at all levels are being rooted out and the damage caused is being felt to some degree by everyone, the change for the good is starting to happen, though painfully slowly when it comes to justice, due partly to a massive backlog caused by sharks getting away with daylight robbery for so many years.

I hope the bad feelings continue to be aimed at those who cause the problems and not (as has been the case at times) at the victims of the low-life we now all know about. I also think it's great to hear positive comments about the good agents/lawyers (without blatent advertising!) as well as people who are happy with their situation. We need balance where possible, but not at the cost of truth/facts.

Goodstitch - agree with you completely however, I dont think its all the doomers and gloomers which are bringing the sites down. Its important for everyone to know how to avoid the pitfalls - we (personally) have been to hell and back these last 3 years with the property we bought ,however, I have , on and off forum,  helped people in (hopefully) a positive way by getting them to avoid the pitfalls that we encountered.

Unfortunately 'bad press' always makes the news, no one wants to hear 'hey, its great over here' because it doesnt make exciting reading. I think its the people who 'take over' the forums - I'm reading one from another site now and it all started off asking how other people perceived the forum. And again, the same people banter on - some other people dared to intervene and they have now got slated and its turned into a slanging match - its quite awful to read really and I just wish they could take a step back to see what damage they are doing.

I've sat back and watched this forum for a for weeks and yes, there's banter and sometimes people take the written word the wrong way, but generally its very friendly and informative.

I posted yesterday about people telling their experiences of buying in Spain but (hopefully) it wasnt seen to be slagging off Spain - the very large agents who sold us our original property, (and these were English based I hasten to add)  did so knowing the land was denounced - it was completely underhand and affected over 200 peoples lives and they relied on some people not having the stamina to particularly fight - they sat on peoples 50% deposit for over 3 years!  We have now got the back up of the PSOE in Spain and we are now trying to get justice and ensure no one else has to suffer in this way.

Sorry if that last para came over bitter - but it really did ruin a lot of lives - there were a couple of times when I was in the depth of wondering what we were going to end up (if anything|) with that I was very very desperate.

Hi Everyone,

Gaining information is a great and wonderful thing. However, what you do with that information is up to you.

We have purchased a property on Playa Golf in Lomas de Cabo Roig, south of Torrivieja, on the Costa Blanca. Luckily we had few problems and the one’s we did have we solved relatively easily.

I strongly feel that this was due to the information we received from this and another forum. It is with thanks to all the members that bother to post their experiences on the forum, good or bad. I have great sympathy for those who have had a bad time over in Spain, but apart from giving advice now and then I con not change their situation. I will also say that if anyone has horror stories about the area we have purchased in, then I appreciate their opinion and comments and will take them onboard, but this only adds to my knowledge of the area and will not deter me from enjoying our home.

For those who are intending to buy out in Spain, remember; be sure of the reasons you wish to purchase in Spain (you will no longer make a fast buck).

Do your research, read all comments made on the forum and take heed.

Remember for armed is for warned! There are thousands of British people living and owning property in Spain and the percentage of complaints is relatively small and most of these are due to not doing your homework or just total bad luck as there are crooks all over the world ready to rip people off.

. So thank you all for your posts and I hope most if not all of you enjoy Spain like I do.

Sping…

You know I also value information, opinions good or bad as Sping mentioned, I believe in the ability to tell it as it is as mentioned by Goodstich what I find amazing is when someone's opinion of an area or agent differs from that of another member the approach that some peolpe take is ridiculous.

If an agent had sold me a property with prior knowledge of anything bad I would take every opportunity to tell everyone about this, afterall if what I was writing was incorrect the agent could then sue me for libel, which would then draw more attention to their shoddy work. No doubt this doesn't happen because what peolpe write or say they actually believe to be true and maybe it is !!

Maybe I'm lucky, I'm a financial advisor, for 17 years now and I know all about sharks, the problem is that sometimes it's an individual, sometimes it was how that individual was trained or sometimes the badness runs right through the company.

What we can do is help ensure those that have had bad experiences are always allowed to tell their story and those of us that have been lucky enough not to have had these experiences can show some empathy, after all, everyone knows you can't trust a finacial adviser and that they are all sharks, a comment that is fair enough if someone has had a bad experience, I can live with that as I know it's not true and it certainly won't have a damaging effect on me, but what it will do is allow the person who has been wronged the opportunity to vent some anger and aggression  towards an industry that probably deserves it.

If you disagree with the above that's fine, remember it's only one persons opinion, we all have one and we're all entiteld to tell those that are prepared to listen (and those that are'nt) what our opinion is.

Anyway I think this is my 100th post and why is there no spell check on this froum ????????????????????????

Hi sping

glad to read things are going well for you and good to hear of the forum really helping people. As for information, well how much more warning to people need of the pitfalls nowadays?  Sadly, that wasn't always the case. Many of us did our homework to the best of our ability, using the so-called reliable large or popular companies. That coupled to huge price increases month after month, convinced us to 'buy now'

Yes, bad luck it certainly was. The developer turned out so bad, even our agents sued them (or so the story goes??)  The biggest problem i have always felt, is the lack of ability (read corruption in many cases) of the authorities to deal with the tide of sharks who caused so much misery. If they had been pulled up in their early days of wrong doings, it would have sent out a message to those intending to do the same, when in reality the message was 'we can rip people off, and get away with it, or even get very rich doing it!!''........not much of an incentive to clean up their act!. So it was all a bit of a lottery, with the information available, some did ok, and landed a decent agent/developer/lawyer....... some didn't.

Hi guys - very interesting readings and postings after my last one yesterday - Tornado - yes it has picked up a bit, a lot because summer is over and people are back to work with their heads screwed back on and also because I generated the interest with what I do.

Spain never was or will be a dead market, to me it has returned to a normal market with most buyers wantnign something for themselves eiterh second homes or to live in either now or when retired.

I have known the market for many years and well beofre this false 'boom' was created. It was created through greed and it was easy to sell the 'dream' in various guises - luckily I was never tempted to join the scramble as I like to sleep straight in my bed at night! As you have put below, some of the tactics used have been downright illegal and via forums like this others who want to buy and who indeed will buy will not fall into the pitfalls of others.

Humans have always advanced by a form of trial and error - buying in Spain is no different! The news has got out and even as a sales person of spanish property I am glad it has come out into the open. Being honest has not dampened my business but in fact my directness and openess has enhanced it and I know Gillespie, Georgia and the others who speak honestly will say the same.

It has been hard at times when a buyer has sat in front of me and asked me my opinion on what to do and I have had to tell them if you dont know then you are not ready. Isee the euros walking out of my office and want tokick myself, but I also know what goes around comes around. That person recommends me to others who may buy or who need to sell, and in some cases they come back when they are ready - which is the best time to buy.

Bad news does not equate to a depressed market, but to a market where people are educated and in full command of information enabling them to make the correct choice at that time.

Much better than pretending all is wonderful and rosy in the garden only to find a nightmare lurking.

I was a large part of a Trevor McDonald programme, slated at the time for its so called negativity, but in fact it encouraged buyers to come forwards freely without the worry of the current smokescreen of negativity which shows buying anything in Spain is awful.

I also remember in the late 80s and early 90s (eeee when I was a young'un) that during the recession with many homes being repossessed, also many people were buying. I am finding as the prices are coming back into line that buyers are more interested in making offers and buying so its regenerating the market.

Anyway, thats my sermon for the day and all you lot - be nice to each other, group hug and all that stuff!

We do get on all of us but sometimes if one is feeling a bit under the weather its easy to take something to heart, I know I do and then occaisinally react abdly to it

Hey ho - only human after all! 

What great varied responses from you all and you are all right.

As I say, we had a terrible experience but it wont make me slate  Spain itself. We bought through a very large organisation (English) and they were terrible, however, they are now reeping the benefits of their appalling lies. They have hurt. no maimed, so many people. I know one lady who cant face going to her place at the moment because of all she has been through. Some may say its not directly the company's fault (agent) but I have to disagree in we were flown out (hasten to add at this point I thought I had done all my homework and research - boy do I know different now!). This company 'sold' us property that they knew would not be built on - they knew it had been denounced but carried on selling over 200 properties. I was one of the first people to start chasing wanting to know why things werent moving - I became an utter pain among many other things and I was one of the lucky ones in as much I got flown back out and given an alternative. I know one man was threatened with legal action and over £40k legal fees because he had reneged on not paying the remainder of monies due when the place wasnt event started!

This company knew the builder was a shark, knew he was re mortgaging the land (so people couldnt get their deeds), knew electric and water was being cut off because it was all still on builders electric and I could go on and on.

Rixxy, I applaud you in your approach, if only everyone was like that - honest and upfront and I really quite agree with you, by being like that, people will trust you and recommend - there is no better than recommendation itself. I so wish I had met someone like you before all this saga but we truly believed going with an English based company would give us the security we needed!

I'm glad you have made a positive post regarding selling/buying - its so easy to see the negative side of things so it was really refreshing to read.

Anyway, have a great day and I hope you sell lots of propery

Thanks Tornado - as they say time will out. I have had over 23 years in property - used to run a small agency in Wood Green and so was from the old school of sales - matching the clients requirements to the property available.

I do find it difficult to hard sell something as large as a property purchase, its not a kettle or a tv after all!

It angers me as much as you when people are openly shafted - and they are! There is no excuse and the one about buyers being naive etc really doesnt wash, after all, to have that sort of deposit they must have had brains to earn it in the first place and in the main most are trying to make a decision but based on lies and not facts!

The only good thing to come out of this is that the big boys are selling up or moving out faster than they got here to newer climes and easier sales. This leaves the genuine people behind and to be honest I started up my operation in order to help clear up the mess they had left behind.

I guess I will be moving onto Bulgaria and the rest next!!! (not)

Have a great day - ahhhhh suns out now!

Well good on you Rixxy - you beat the big boys but no surprise there really - used to think big was best but I am older/wiser and greyer now!

HOpefully the big uns will leave you behind to make a good honest buisness out of it all - they have made everyone cautious now about buying abroad. Everyone talks of buying now in places like Bulgaria/Croatia but all they will do is exactly what they have done to Spain but these poor people dont realise they will live literally on a building site for years and years to come. At least, Spain, though still lots of cranes, arent quite as many as there used to be!

Sun, what sun - its cold here - we're back out in October - 3 weeks away - cant wait

Tornado, the other forum ( remember guys, the .co.uk one ) are discussing cliques.

Typical is this post ........

"On a serious note, I´ve never seen a "clique" as such on here. Just a group of people who share similiar humour. I have watched this forum over the past few months and I´m afraid to say that its the newbies who tend to be rude and aggressive, not the other way round.

How many times have us in the "clique" welcomed a newbie?

I really cannot for the life of me understand those who resort to personal insults and damn right nastiness."

Although I've never had **** from this poster I certainly have had it from some of the poster's friends & what for, you may ask ?? Just basically for intruding. I stay away unless I'm desperate to know something I know many on there can answer (mainly as most are in my area) It's scary in there at times, I tell you.

Ah but Tornado - you should know that size isnt everything!!

Spain will settle and always be the best part of Europe to live in - Bulgaria and Croatia, pretty as they may be, are freezing most of the time, grey and depressing. Thats why their countryfolk are moving out!

Prices there are way way over what they should be - in Bulgaria I auctioned a few smallholdings admitedly a 1.5 to 2 hour drive from Sofia in the country but near a spa town, 2000sqm with small house liveable but needing some work to make really nice, for under 5000 euros! That was last year!!!

More - ignore the petty idiots on the other site - come back to use, we are better at insulting than they are !

Well Morerosado and Rixxy you are dead right - Morerosado I saw that bit too and was flabbergasted - oh you can kid yourself into thinking what you want! I can pretty much stick up for myself but there's some tough characters in there - they are probably all lovable in their own way but they certainly rule the roost on there!

Rixxy you are spot on I think Spain will always be the best option - after all we have been through (and its been a lot) we do feel a sense of 'home' when we get there and the people we have met have been brilliant - English or Spanish - the health service there I believe is second to none (probably better than here) and every time I enter a supermarket back here after being in Spain I always say to hubby that Spain knocks spots off the ones here - they always look so drab compared to Spain.

So, thank you for making me welcome - it really is a great forum - I feel as though I have been here for years.

Oh blimey - better put a stop to that then!

Morerosado - lets get Tornado!!!

I totally agree with you about the supermarkets though it was the other way around when I first came here. I had a local shop with food in season, so spinach would only be around for 3 days or so, that type of thing. We moved in the feb and the following year went back over xmas. Hubby and I went around Tescos and we were like kids in a sweetshop!

We filled 2 trolleys with all osrts of stuff then got to the till - oh my gish! Firstly it was nearly 300 quid and then secondly we dodnt know what we would do with it all anyway!

So we put most of it back but even now the only things I go a bit mad for are the sweets! 

ahh but did I tell you I fight dirty!.....

I'd probably be slightly different if I lived in Spain and would miss certain favourites but when we go over I kinda love shopping in the supermarkets though it upsets me when I see the animals in the cage (Carrefor) - so I tend to look the other way as I want to bring them all home with me! But with a husband and two kids, I fear I have enough to look after at the moment........

Tornado would lurve our bucket, Karen. I can't see why we should be refused it, we certainly help enough elsewhere. Keep it out of the last 20 posts as before & leave us to enjoy our bit of fun. Come on Justin, we're asking nicely.

ooh I am intrigued now - bucket?