hello

We have a really big problem with our community here.  We desperately need more money but the majority of owners are reluctant to pay any more, probably because they just can't afford it.

I was discussing some ideas with a friend and we were just wondering, does YOUR community need more money?  Does everyone go mental at the AGM when the fees go up?  Do owners in your community generally feel that they are paying too much?

Any feedback on the financial state of your community would really be appreciated.

Thanks

Justin

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I must admit the more i read about community problems and fees the luckier i feel...........
We originally had a problem with the builder and outstanding fees owed but once our president  threatrened to prosecute they coughed up quite quickly.
We have a fantastic President who knows how to run an AGM  and keeps everyone in order.
They organise one trip a month out for the retired residents to all different areas,we have fund raisers for charity every year and we actually have an excess of fees this year even after voting to have a key fob system for the pool and installing a pagoga and parasols in the green areas.
As i travel around and see the problems i feel quite lucky that the community i live in is exactly that.
The administrators commented at the last AGM that it was the most civilised and well structured meeting they have ever attended.
We agreed to raise the fees from 180€ per year to 240€ to cover some little extras but considering i live in a 4 bed villa i consider that peanuts for what we get.
sorry justin i am sure you will get many replies but unfortunately for the thread we have "Loadsamoney"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Wow, 240 euros for a year........we pay over 800 euros per year and seem to get very little for it.  What do your fees include? How many owners are there?

We have 2 pools that the developer retained ownership of. One is just a small kiddies pool and the other a bigger pool. These pools can be used by non residents too even though we pay him around 44,000 euros per year for maintenance etc. People rock up in their cars and camper vans parking all along our road to use the pool that WE pay for. I know it sounds unvelievable and some of us have tried to change it but just keep getting out voted by the wimps who believe his threats of closing the pools if we don't pay. (He wont close them as he also still owns quite a few of apartments that he rents out) There are about 230 owners on our urb.

We were supposed to have communal gardens but he built on that space instead so maintenance of gardens required. Some of us would really like to know where our fees go. The president sacked the adminstrator, without an EGM , and is now soley running everything  which is obviously too big a job for one person.

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Hi Poppyseed,
There are 140 on our community,we have a lovely grassed pool area and the gardener is fantastic always planting new flowers and re-seeding as well as cleaning the pool everyday,the pool is really big and there is a kiddies pool as well,the community always club together to make sure there is a real sense of community spirit.
Last year we raised a lot of money for the butterfly children and this year is for underpriviliged children in Algorfa.
We also have fund raisers where we split half of the proceeds with a local charity,last year we bought a pergoda and new benches and ballustraded the pool area,to save paying a builder some of trhe retired residents supplied the workforce saving us a lot of wasted money on builders.
We installed a key fob system for the pool to save someone locking up every night and because it is electronic access if you dont pay your fees your fob doesnt work all of a sudden,no fees,no pool!!!!! everyone seems to pay up funnily enough!!!!
I could go on and on but it really is such a pleasure to live with such a great neighbours and the fees are nice and low....

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Poppyseed, each year, like just this week, our administrator sends us a letter inviting us to our AGM & it includes a breakdown of what he's paid out & what he's taken in with community fees over the past year & our community has over 4000€ credit.  

OOOOOOOO Georgia, you LOCK NON PAYERS OUT OF THE POOL ?? That's illegal, been discussed previously. However, I agree .. no fees paid, no amenities.  Why should those who pay, in our case 425€ annually in one payment, sub those who don't ? Chuck the non payers off the community if, after three months, the outstanding fees are still outstanding & their property proceeds wiill pay the back fees. (I'm in a fighting mood, oh yes !)

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the key fob system is a great way off getting people to cough up,when the fob doesn't work they ask why,generally they are too embarassed and soon delve deep.....
We have only ever had a couple of people who have owed money,its generally the non residents because if they dont pay they go on the "wall of shame" near the pool....
You will never ever get away with not paying as the debt will always stay with the property and you can't sell it without squaring up first..
We know its illegal to do it but when in Rome...... and it works......
our president is on his 3rd year,every year he tries to quit but we wont let him,he is too good at what he does and together with the residents have made it such a friendly place to live.......
Just to add,at xmas the president organised a carol service with hot choccy and it really did get everyone in the spirit,plus we have a seperate entertainments commitee,has anyone else got one of these??

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Lovely ideas More, and I'm sure lots would agree with you BUT, as it's illegal...................and the ONE who gets the 'brown stuff' AND the takes the can back in the Legal sense, is El Presidente!!  Any sueing to be done, it's the Presidente who is liable!!
Mind you, there are ways......................but best not to write about them!!
Our Community is budget is set and agreed at the AGM and apart from the reserve fund, we use it as the owners have agreed. Of course there are jobs and inprovements that are done from the proceeds of late payer fines and bank interest etc., and that puts the icing on the cake so to speak.
We have 184 apartments in two blocks, 4 lifts, miles of corridor and steps, communal pool with a bit of greenery, periferal road with palm trees ( planted by us....not the builder as specified !! ), electrics, cleaning, pool mainainance and no end of other stuff and the Com Fees have just risen from 300€ ( for the last 2 years ) to 330€.
If there is a large expense such as painting the patios de luces ( as there is this year ) the owners vote how to pay for it at AGM ( two options were given....pay all now or spread it over 18months ) and the painting is being subsidised from bad debtors fines. We have 20 of these things....they are light shafts.........and as we are on 4 floors, it is not an easy or cheap job.
All in all, I think we're doing ok, although if the few owners who are STILL in arrears would pay up, it would be much better. This year will see us with recompence via the cCourts !!  ( What goes around comes around )          

Edited to say......we too have just had an electronic pool gate sysyem...................so as well as keeping anyone from other Urbs out......it means we don't have to lock and unlock the pool anymore.       

This message was last edited by Karensun on 5/24/2008.

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Georgia.............................sometimes I think the Presidente is the 'Entertainment'.....never mind the committee !!!!!  

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and that puts the icing on the cake so to speak.

Good one that, K

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Clearly Georgia lives in some sort of fairy tale land, because his community, I believe, is very much the exception to the rule. What he doesn't realise, is that 26,756 EOS members will all be beating down his community doors trying to get in now! 

From what I can gather, most communities suffer from bad payers. But without this, so long as the budget has been correctly worked out and no major disasters befall the community, there should be enough money to cover all the necessary expenses.

 The problem is, what constitutes "necessary" expenses? Everybody has different opinions and priorities. Even in a relatively tiny community (like ours - 12!) you will find differing opinions. We have owners whose top priority is keeping the cost down. We already pay around €90 per month for a 2/2 apt., because of the cost of maintaining a pool and garden and lift between so few. The suggestion that we should pay any more seriously upsets some owners, but we have others whose priority is to make the place the pride of Torremolinos, regardless of expense, who would rather pay double the current fee, so that we can lavish the place with new flowers, regular painting, sun loungers and umbrellas etc. etc. and who get annoyed that seemingly little maintenance jobs get neglected, and fail to understand that the budget we all agreed on at the AGM is not a bottomless pit.

A famous presidente once said "you cannot please all of the people, all of the time". Too true!

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Georgia, do you want to sell your president, or failing that rent them out?!!!!! We wish......

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Roberto, well if any one is interested in coming to see how a community should be run thye address is,Urbanisation never never land,far far away,utopia.........
seriously i know we are quite lucky and it takes a serious amount of running and a president and team of volunteers that are totally commited.
It myt all fall apoart if the president does ever quit but untill then i will be counting my lucky stars.......

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georgia, is your community in Spain?

That's amazing.  I bet there's even a waiting list for properties for sale on your urb!

Ours would probably be your worst nightmare.  Unfinished development, streets don't get cleaned often, street lights still not all up and running, cannot affort ANY system to keep unwanted guests out of the pool, inconsiderate neighbours....and I could go on.

Anyone out there with a problem community (please make me feel better) especially in terms of finances?

Justin

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Sorry Justin we are another happy Community well in general anyway.  Our biggest problem is debtors because as we are the first two phases many of our apartments (27 out of just under 100) were bought by "investors" who have not visited since they signed four years ago.  
As President, I saw the writing on the wall that these properties were going to decrease in value, some would get repossesed and those that did not would fall into a state of disrepair. No income is coming from these properties ( our debtors owe over twenty thousand) and will not for many years if ever!   Bearing this in mind something has to be done to leave enough money in the kitty for the daily running of the Urbanisation and for repairs to the empty properties and gardens.  I myself own two properties on our Urbanisation so don´t really want to see an increase in fees athough at 300 euro per annum they are not too bad.  
I set about a general cost cutting exercise, with the backing of the Community of Owners  (while increasing the amount we need to keep in the emergency fund for the budget) and also proposed an increase to 330 euros per year for this year.  Along with this proposal was the suggestion that if approved then a 10% discount should be given to those paying in full in the first two months.  This was passed by a very large majority simply because most owners agreed that only late payers are paying the increase!.  This month we have yet another repossesion bringing the total to six properties!  Hopefully,  we can survive and not have to increase the charges but a Community of 9 owners must be a nightmare finance wise as you still need a pool man, insurance and a Administrator etc

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Our community is very small as it's a private road.  On one side of the road we have town house either two or three bedrooms, the other side has bungalows and larger houses with garages and living accomodation above.

Years ago when it was decided to set up the community they needed to raise 9mil for the budget and it was decided that the best way would be for the bungalows side to pay 4mil and the townhouses paid 5mil.

We pay for the upkeep of a small community pool open from June to September, street lighting and an electric entry gate.  My fees this year were 135 euros.  Not a great amount but we still have debtor's.  A lot of our owners live in Madrid so will not pay until they arrive in August.  The president is trying to get people to pay before April each year but old habit's die hard.  We have keys to the pool and the barrel is changed each year, you are not allowed to have the latest set until you've paid the fees.

I've yet to attend an AGM as they are always in August, I've heard they are normally very vocal especially when the owners in the bungalow side wanted to change the way the fees are raised.  They decided it would be fairer to be apportioned equally and they also wanted to sack the administrator and deal with everything themselves.  The takeover wasn't successful and now apathy has broken out.  At the last meeting 8 people turned up!

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Interesting feedback, thanks.

It seems that owners on our community are paying too much for what we get.  Saying that, there's never enough money in the kitty.

Is anyone paying over 200 Euros a quarter in fees?  I would be interested to hear from those people.

Thanks

Justin

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Hi Justin

The Communtiy across from ours (which I have a lot to do with as they have no residents so therefore even  though he is very good, they don´t have a resident President ) pays one thousand and fifty euros a year (262.50 per quarter).  There are 67 apartments one pool, gardens and five lifts.

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Hi Justin

We pay 206 per quater.  The urb has 203 owners (I think), thats made up of 32 houses and the rest low rise apartments.There are two pools, a few climbing plants and planters but no proper gardens, one apartment building has a lift. We employ a married couple to clean communal stairs and landings and odd jobs. They also empty the bins every couple of days. Part of their remuneration is a rent free apartment. The developer maintained ownership of the pools and we pay around 44,000 pa to him  for their maintenance which I have to add is not very good. This situation has caused much argy bargy and raised blood pressure, our meetings are a shambles and at the end no-one is really sure what's gone on. After sacking the adminstrator without and EGM the President has employed a part time book keeper, again without any approval from the residents and seems to be running the whole thing by herself. A court case was brought by some Spanish owners denouncing the developer, adminstrator and President, still waiting to hear the outcome. Considering the number of owners contributing and the few amenities, we feel our fees are excessive.

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Justin 

We pay 125 Euros per month and we really do not know what we are getting for that .- we urgently need to contact EL Presidente when we return next month .   There was supposed to be security guards but none have materialised as evidently there is not enough money in the kitty due to the original first phase owners having a dspute with the developers.    We have two pools ( very small ) and 10 yes 10 loungers???    Not sure of the number of apartments but there must be at least 100 and we have a Paddle court. 

Must admit that reading what others pay we seem to be paying a lot.

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Justin,

We are currently paying €300 a month which is very steep! 7 Blocks of 8 apartments with individual lifts. Medium size pool, Paddle Tennis Court. Gardens etc. We also pay towards the Runing of a 9 hole Par 3 Golf Course around €25 a month. Gone out to tender recently as first year is nearly completed. Costs could come down to around €225 if the developer continues to pay their share?

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