hello

Seems that lifts are a big expense. Georgia presumably does not have to contribute to a lift, being in a villa. Our fees are hefty; we have a lift to maintain betwen 12 of us. Miket's community has one lift between every 8 owners, so that may explain partly his high fees.
Justin, if it makes you feel better, a very well known and (formally) popular older community here, currently has eye-watering debts. The regular fees owed are now well into six figures, and an extra-ordinary fee has been requested, in order to make necessary repairs to the ageing electrical installations. So far they are still waiting for another six figure some to be paid up for this.
I used to own a studio apartment there (about 40 sq.m) and paid about €80 per month. The larger apartments (3 bed) pay something like €300 per month. Water (H&C) is included, but the heating and a/c which used to be centrally supplied and included, no longer functions (due to lack of funds to maintain the system) but the fees have gone up, not down.

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Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread (sorry, been snowed under past few days so just resurecting this thread).

Some really interesting feedback here.  We own an apartment and a townhouse on our urb and we pay 170 per quarter for the apartment and 75 euros for the townhouse!  It's cheaper to have a house than an apartment.  

Roberto, the cost is certainly in the lifts, the cleaning of the stairs, the communal block elec and water, the garage cleaning, etc.

Most people (us included) don't consider the extra expense of the community charge for having an apartment in a block.

MikeT...300 per month...ouch!

Justin

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Makes you realise how much for granted we take lifts. I wonder if a coin operated lift would be a possibility? Pay per ride. That way, we'd probably all get a lot fitter, except the lazy ones, who'd pay the penalty not only with their health, but also by contributing their small change to the upkeep! Second thoughts, a card operated system, with remote de-activation possible, so that those who haven't paid their fees, have to walk up! 

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No Rob, let the non payers access the lift but if they want to leave then they cough up debt or stay in it.

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More, I like your style and your suggestion!  I would LOVE to implement that system

I'm a bit happier today as we managed to get a couple of our big debtors to pay up, so we have a few cents to play with (only a few mind you).

We now have three big debtors left (the others are relatively small) and of those three two are English!  Some people are really letting the side down.

Justin

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Been reading all the different threads on the amounts people pay and i'm quite shocked, we have 60 apartments 10 lifts, 1 pool and nice gardens and we are all paying over 500 euros a quarter. most apartments are 3 bed and have floorspaces in excess of 200 sq mtrs so we do have reasonably large apartments on our community, but we are not in central marbella, but situated in a nice position in Riviera del sol. We recently repainted the 4 blocks on the community at a cost of 70,000 euros - we all had to pay an extra 1000 euros to get this done, now we budget for 10,000 euros a year for the repainting in another 5 or 10 years time depending on how the buildings will look then.- 300 euros a year wont cover that sort of expenditure on any community, How are we different- or do other communities not plan to paint their buildings??

I cannot understand how communities are only paying 200 and 300 euros a year, our lift mainteanace charges and gardener costs when broken down are 100 euros a quarter per apartment...and we have in the last 12 months taken 3 different quotes on each to check we were getting value for money.

An administrator will cost 10,000 euros a year, thats another 50 euros a quarter per apartment!!!! so i'm really struggling to find any sympathy when communities have small fees and a small selection dont want any increases.....have they no pride in the places they liveand have invested  in? 

Fortunately, right from the start the community developed a culture that we wanted to create "the best place to live on the Costa del Sol" and we have now got that train of thought into everything the community does and plans for. For the sceptics out there, we are actually seeing re-sales of apartments on the community (at least 2 in the last month) and lots of interest in the 2 or 3 that are still available. It is also wrong to think that we have buckets of cash to throw at anything we want to do, far from it, if it hasnt been budgeted for then it doesnt happen, and some things have to wait till the end of the year to see if there is still money in the pot to do it.

We reguarly get feedback from buyers and sellers that anybody that comes onto the community thinks it is really clean and the gardens are well maintained " this would be a nice place to live." 

We are just about to hold our AGM and the budget to run the community is broken down dramatically, from cleaning and costs for cleaning products through to a budget for new plants in the gardens, every year we take the budget apart and rebuild it looking at where we are spending money to keep the bare essentials in place and then what we need to do to keep the standards up and make some small improvements.

It would appear that a lot of communities possibly do the bare minimum and when something goes wrong they either have to dip into a reserve fund or wait until the next agm to get a one off payment to put it right.

yes we also have debtor problems, however a new administrator has taken last years 55000 euro debt and this year we are going into the AGM with a 14000 debt.

Yes we have a nice community, but we have bills to pay and i cannot see how communities can survive on fees of 300 euros a year, we need 2000 euros an apartment to keep our heads above water - and we certainly are not a 5* community yet!!

If anyone is interested to see how we break our fees down and the running of the community, our website    golfgardensmiraflores.co.uk        has an AGM tab with all the details on it, how do we differ from your community with a similar number of apartments on it.


This message was last edited by promedia on 6/14/2008.

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Hi promedia,

Our fees are 330€ each year. Of course we don't live on the Costa del sol, but we still have a nice well maintained community.
We have 184 apartments, 4 lifts and pool with surrounding flowers and bushes but no garden. We have a perimeter road with palms tho. The apartments are in two blocks and have miles of corridors to clean. 
The exterior of the building is gotogran which does not have to be painted and retains it's finish and keeps clean ( as proved by other apartments nearby which do not have this finish and although newer than ours are already showing signs of age and dirt.
Over the past 3 years we have made many improvements, eg. electronic pool gates, photo electronic light timers and new exterior light globes.
We are awaiting the final planning permission so that we can put gates on the perimeter road and railings on the existing wall. As this was an additional expense, over the budget, each owner has paid 30€ as agreed at AGM.
We, of course, maintain the 5% reserve fund.
If there is an emergency, any Presidente has the authority to sort it and get it ratified at the next AGM. The Community budget is just that, it should not make a 'profit' and should be used as agreed by owners at AGM.
Our Community, and I'm sure others are the same, do not just do the bare minimum. 
This is our home, and while we do not have extensive gardens ( our choice when we bought ) we take great pride in it.


edited to sort out spelling.


This message was last edited by Karensun on 6/14/2008.

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Karensun

Sorry wasnt being rude to anyone, but i am amazed that big communities can sustain the complex on such a small sum of money.

You have 3X the number of apartments than us (we have 60), and half the lifts, our lift maintenance and emergency telephone system are about 10,000 euros a year so yours will be half 5K

Administrators for 187 apartments will possibly charge more than ours at 10K so call yours 15K

our cleaner is 10K a year- so your miles of corridors must mean 2 or 3 cleaners say 20K

Pool maintenace and cleaning has got to be 5k

General maintenance, repairs, lightbulbs, gate repairs we budget 10k a year to cover ongoing problems - you must be similar

You say you have no gardens, but there must be some work done, chopping the palms back is 50 euros a tree- say 5k

What about communal electricity and water for the pool - 10K

the apartments watertanks, water pumps and irrigation maintenance and repairs 5K

Buildings insurance for the community 10K

5% reserve fund = 6K

Debtors ?

on there estimates alone for the basics You are already at 86K and your community generates 62K  can you see why i'm confused, or is it just "rip off del sol"

perhaps we could get the webmaster to collate a whole series of community accounts for different things and help everyone out, we take quotes to check we are getting fair prices and we use local tradesmen as well as recommended british workmen and it never seems to be that much different.

anyway got to get an early night as i'm on the 7am flight to malaga for our AGM on Monday.....should be fun??

look forward to some intersting replies when i get back

Sorry again Karensun we have always had some good dialog in the past and i wouldnt want to spoil that

Adios   

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We pay 44,000 euros for maintenance of 2 pools to the developer who kept ownership of them although  when buying everyone thought they were part of the urbanization proper.. People from outside the urbanization use them and all through the summer these outsiders park their cars all along our road to use our pools. The develper says they can't be fenced of or seperated in any way for the sole us of the owners although the intention was they would only be for use by the owners. One is a smallish kiddies pool with a bit of grass around it, the other is a bigger with paved area around it. Does this seem a reasonable amount to pay? (I have my own thoughts but would be interested in anyone's opinion)

Meanwhile other parts of the urbanization desperately need some maintenance, but not enough money for it iIassume as it's not being done.

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Most of this is on another thread but we pay 300 euros. a month, there are 96 apartments. The costs for last year were:

"Maintenance Pool etc. Eur 45000,  Fire extinguisher 1000, Gardening 45000, Cleaning 40000, Lifts(12) 32000, Administration 23000, Security 85000, Lifeguards 7000, Insurance 8500, Water 54000, Electricity 32000, Pool Maintenance 7000, Pest Control 1500 There are some other ones but these are the main ones."

Have to admit although it is expensive we have a new President (Spanish) and every is run like clockwork, and kept in tip top condition.

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Wow there are some high charges out there it just shows the more you research these things before you buy the better off you are.
We like many others  buying in Spain over four years ago had never heard of a Community charge and it is only by luck that we bought on an urbanisation that had the charges at 380 for the first year (now 330 or 300 if you pay early in the year.)
We could not pay out 300 per month on what we earn after tax and social security, and marvel at those who can especially those that rent out, or have a large mortgage.

The cost of Administration that you are all paying seems excessive.  The average on the Costa Blanca is 4.50 euros per property per month we however,  have a better deal at 3.15 but it is for this year only.  For our Ubanisation of just over 100 we pay less than four thousand euros per year so the figures that you all have must be for the Costa Del Sol.  By the way our Administer is excellent

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No offense taken promedia.................................will PM you our Community budget for this year so you can see what we do !!

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Tinto

Can you please check your figures, or are you on a massive community, how many apartments?

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There are 96 apartments

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wow Tinto

390,000 euros to run a community for 96 apartments, thats 36 more than us and we thought our budget at 120,000 was just about acceptable.

our costs are maintenace etc - 15,000, fire 1500, gardening 16000,cleaning 15000, 8 lifts with emergency phones 10,000, administration 11000, no security guards or lifeguards (CCTV system installed) water 7000, electric 10,000, pool 5000, pest control 500, insurance 7500

Did i  see that you are in estapona, your community must be really spectacular and apts well in excess of 750K each to justify those costs. How much water do you use in the gardens to spend 54,000 thats £45000 - likewise maintenace and gardening  at 45,000 each - £37500 is a team of 5 or 6 full time people!

85000 for security £71000 is a team of 4 or 5 full time employees.

you pay 300 a month and karensun pays 300 a year what a difference - you pay as much for your water as they do to run their whole community.

All i can say is ....do you take guests for week in obvious sheer luxury. well done

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I thought our water bills were high. Does our community need more money? Of course, but it would help if the idiot neighbour with an obsession about the garden would get it through his thick head that we paid a lot of money for an automatic irrigation system to ensure that the garden gets all the water it needs, and that by going out and watering it manually himself (because he's an old retired fart who enjoys "pottering") two hours before the system activates, is not only wasting precious water, but costing us dearly. I'm no longer president, otherwise I would personally excommunicate him!

Rant over.

"no security guards or lifeguards (CCTV system installed)" - just wondering, is the CCTV any good at fishing out drowning kiddies?! I haven't read up on it (because it's really boring and doesn't apply to our community as we're fewer than 20) but do the Andalucian pool regulations allow for this? (I have a copy if you want it)

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Know what you mean about the water roberto, we have actually managed to get our watering system right after 4 years and certain parts come on daily and other bits come on alternate days so as not to flood everywhere especially in the winter.

With regard to the pool and safety, every community is required from Jan 1st 2009 to have an opening licence, Our report states we have got to add extra disabled ramps to the pool areas, extend the pool surround by 20cms to 1.2mtrs, build a new toilet block that a wheelchair user can use add extra steps into the pool rather than just the current ladder type which we agree are difficult for most people to use and the biggest change will be a fence with lockable gate that will stop children and adults wandering into the pool area and falling in. all communities are going to be concerned about the appearance of the fence and gate and how we stop kids climbing over and leaving the gate open which would defeat the objective. Not sure how high the fence needs to be but at least 1mtr was mentioned i think, perhaps someone could confirm.

We are looking at having to budget approx 25,000 euro's to make all the changes, we are only 5 years old as a community and a few of the bits we already have in place. If every community has got to spend this much, then the builders concerned about no new developments being built will have nothing to worry about.

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I must admit we do have quite a lot going on and the community and gardens are kept in excellent condition (I don't know how many gardeners but I think it is two). As I said we have just got a new President who I hope will keep tabs on costs, he has already brought in new administrators, security and gardeners. Here is a bash at what we get for our money: Outdoor Pool, Kids pool, indoor heated pool, gym, sauna, small putting green, gardens with automatic irrigation ,12 lifts, underground parking, 24 hour security. I bought this apartment as a holiday home with another member of my family so the costs are not quite as bad split 2 ways.

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Wow, indoor heated pool, sauna and gym!   The full monty, now that explains the high monthly fee.  As the saying goes you get what you pay for.

I'm curious did you know the fees were going to be high when you bought?

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