Any advice on this one please?

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20 Aug 2008 9:17 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

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Getting rid of an employee can be troublesome, and from what I can gather from briefly reading on your website about dear old Moises, he probably knows his rights and will make as much trouble as possible if you do try to terminate his contract. Yes, in the end you may decide it's worth the cost, as Semi explained, but in the meantime, it may be worth trying a different approach.

Does he have a detailed job description? If not, draw one up. Make sure every single second of his time is accountable for, but do not go overboard and ask him to perform the impossible. If there isn't enough work to keep him occupied - invent some. Get him cleaning windows on private properties if necessary - after all, he is YOUR employee, so you can decide what he does during the hours you pay him for. You could try drawing up a list of daily jobs, which he has to check off when done (you can then monitor very easily if he really is doing what he's supposed to or not) and if you or someone else is willing to commit themselves to the task, you could even insist that he signs in and out every day with someone in authority. 

At the very least, by adopting some such tactic, you will at least be able to feel like you're getting your money's worth out of him. At best, he'll get so hacked off with his new working conditions, that he'll quit. 

If you, or one of your comrades in arms, can check details on employment law, so much the better (maybe our resident lawyer, Maria, can offer some tips?) but I'm fairly sure none of the above would present any problems, legally. Just be sure whatever you ask him to do is within reason!
We used this approach when some residents were dissatisfied with our cleaner. The First Lady actually went out one morning and did all the cleaning (corridors, stairways, lift etc.) to time the job, to make sure what we were asking was possible within the time that the cleaner was employed for. (She volunteered - honest!!) After that, it was impossible for the cleaner to argue, and subsequently her work standard improved noticeably and the complaints subsided.......and El Presidente had a slightly quieter life - for a while.....!!!!


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21 Aug 2008 10:25 PM by On a mission ! Star rating in Caleta de Fuste,Fuer.... 52 posts Send private message

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Hi everybody !!!

Thank you all for all your cracking posts  and thanks also to all those who've been having a mosey round my lil ole website !!!

Well.............On a mission is on a roll !!!!!!!!!!!!...................our support level is increasing daily and the number of proxy votes we're collecting between us is slowly climbing every day  I'm actually starting to believe that we can do this !!!

I've been sooooo busy it's a wonder I haven't disappeared up my own a**l orifice !!!! Saw a good friend today, first time for a week, and she reckons I've lost weight ...........well, that won't do me any harm especially in the derriere department !!!!!

Had a bit of a laugh today, the President and Vice-President were "walking the site" together smiling and waving at everyone as tho' they were bloody royalty !!!!!!!!!!!! They've NEVER done that before...........methinks they've got the wind up !!! .............and I didn't notice anyone waving back either !!!!!!

Down to serious business now..........................

We never got to inspect the accounts on Tuesday, why, cos the Asesoria are on holiday apart from one lass holding the fort !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So much for appointments !!!! However, the one lass has made me a new appointment for the !st September at 10.30am, which is their first day back from hols and won't give them any time for any jiggery-pokery !!!

Now this is a worry.............please does anyone know the answer to this one ???

It does seriously look as though we may well make majority votes.................so I'm looking at a possible total overthrow.............the meeting for the 5th September is an EGM as you know...............is it "within the rules" to get rid of the Asesoria at an EGM ??????.................cos one of our happy campers is convinced that we can only do that at an AGM ..........bearing in mind that one of the items on the Agenda is Election of new Secretary-Administrator  ??????????????
I'm unsure myself and need some oracles !!!!!!!!!

You guys and gals all take care !

Audrey



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21 Aug 2008 11:35 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

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I don't see why not. 
Going back to 13.7: "....The persons designated may be removed from their posts before the expiration of their term of office by a resolution of the general assembly, convened to hold an extraordinary session."
An extraordinary session is an EGM, isn't it?


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21 Aug 2008 11:57 PM by On a mission ! Star rating in Caleta de Fuste,Fuer.... 52 posts Send private message

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Well that's what I thought too Rob, I'm so glad you agree !!

I hope you didn't think I was doubting what you said before about 13.7 cos I certainly wasn't.

It's just that the bunch I'm taking on are such a gang of conniving bar-stewards I know they'll try every trick in the book and I need to be 110% sure, Also, the person that told me about the Asesoria/AGM bit is actually a President's wife, if it weren't for that I would have dismissed it !!!

I'm just so very mindful of the fact that if I slip up on a technicality,  I shall be letting so many people down !

Sorry if I'm being a pain in the arse !!!

Audrey

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22 Aug 2008 8:47 AM by semijubilada Star rating in London/Torrevieja. 1052 posts Send private message

On our urbanisation we had a similar thing happen and some of our owners wanted to change the way the community fees are calculated.  They wanted everyone to pay the same amount, sack the adminstrator and do it themselves.  That year they volunteered to form a working committee, supposedly to help the presidente but they thought that by calling an EGM they could take over through a vote of no confidence.  They couldn't because the Presidente held proxy votes and these were valid for the whole year until the next AGM.

Don't know if your crew could do the same, has anyone who has given you a proxy vote previously given it to them.  

That's the only thing that I can think of, I would have thought that the new proxy vote (dated I hope) would supersede the first.  If not then that persons proxy vote should not be used by either party.  

But as the administrators know that they stand a good chance of being ousted from the position should you use these votes then they will be biased.

I think you should make it known at the outset that you have an independant translator taking the minutes.

Make copies of the proxy votes and use these for voting keeping the originals in your records.  On the proxy votes, have you listed what you are voting for on their behalf?  That way they can't say the two proxy votes are the same and only the ones they hold can be used for voting.

Someone videod their AGM and posted it all on YouTube, they were trying to get rid of the administrators but after countless votes suddenly the tally changed and proxy votes disappeared.  The place was in uproar yet the published minutes completely ignored what had happened and the dodgy vote was carried through much to everyones disgust.







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22 Aug 2008 10:22 AM by morerosado Star rating. 6927 posts Send private message

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the published minutes completely ignored what had happened 

We had issues with our President & the administrator after the published minutes of our EGM last September were inaccurate. (They claimed votes were taken at the EGM we ourselves attended, & what the results were.

Trouble is our President & her committee seem to have lapses of memory when we & others tried to discuss this possibly, because I don't know, due to cheap & yes, I'm bitter.


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22 Aug 2008 12:07 PM by On a mission ! Star rating in Caleta de Fuste,Fuer.... 52 posts Send private message

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Morning Semi and More

Needless to say, both of your posts give me the screaming hab-dabs cos that's exactly what goes on here !!!

What beats me is how these Committees keep giving us and keep getting away with it !!!  

Just what does it take to make peeps wake up and do something about it .....................and just what does it take to anticipate every dirty trick and be sneakier than they are !!!!!???? 



         


Audrey


This message was last edited by On a mission ! on 8/22/2008.

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22 Aug 2008 12:21 PM by abbbb1 Star rating in Essex and Ciudad Que.... 306 posts Send private message

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Amazingly, on our community, some residents put their names forward, last year, for the position of vice-president (more chance of getting volunteers for this post!!) Still more "amazingly" some of their names "disappeared" from records.  As a result only a select (no I didn't say selected!!!) few were voted on!!  There were certainly a few upset people who said that that they would never try to stand again!!  One of the problems seems to be that all the paperwork for questions etc has to be submitted before the meeting, and so there is chance for them to get "mislaid".  Very careless!!

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22 Aug 2008 12:26 PM by morerosado Star rating. 6927 posts Send private message

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Hi Audrey, talking about "one of those days" (& I've snagged your piccy, thanks) I'm just about to post on the non resident bank account again. We each received a letter from Banco Halifax Madrid head office this morning.....

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22 Aug 2008 1:22 PM by On a mission ! Star rating in Caleta de Fuste,Fuer.... 52 posts Send private message

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You're welcome More

I've just posted on that thread too, slightly off topic actually , in the hope it might save a few peeps having a problem !!

Don't talk to me about Halifax now, my mortgage is with them

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22 Aug 2008 2:53 PM by semijubilada Star rating in London/Torrevieja. 1052 posts Send private message

Audrey - you can only do what you're doing now, research, research and then research again.

Keep people informed and try to get everyone to come with you so you have as much support as you can.  In some ways you are in a good position because everyone is annoyed about the water fiasco so they should be keen for someone else to take over the mess that's been created by the previous administration.

It aint going to be easy but if you can keep calm as you did at your own meeting then you should succeed.  Also your supporters should be calm as well, one thing you don't want is for it to be a free for all and you land up not getting anything done.

The main thing is that you have no confidance in their administration, there looks like there has been gross misconduct as community funds can not be accounted for.

The one thing that would worry me is that you can't take this on yourself, you need to have others who would be prepared to run as vice president and secretary.  

Looks like your budget will be in deficit and if no one's prepared to take up a permanent position then perhaps you could set up a committee.

Follow Roberts advice and hopefully Moises will hop it else where.  Be open and honest with everyone, the one thing you don't want is for false rumours circulating as the knives will surely be out.

After you have distributed the minutes of this meeting it should be clear what has happened previously and what steps you plan to take to rectify the situation.

The main thing to get across is that this situation cannot continue and your aim is to clear the debts and then set up a realistic budget.  You'll probably have to put up the fees to survive for another year but hopefully the "dead wood" will disappear soon, don't forget to issue warnings if his work isn't up to standard.  Perhaps the committe could do the checking re job discription.

It's no wonder that you're getting the screaming hab dabs (haven't heard that expression in ages) cause I'm getting a  headache just thinking about it.



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22 Aug 2008 3:43 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

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The budget deficit will be helped if a new president is elected who doesn't draw a salary. If you are prepared to take it on, and happy to just claim your reasonable expenses, that should bag you a few votes.
Semi is right about keeping calm - you and your supporters. Let the enemy lose their heads instead! If you let it get heated and emotional, nothing will be achieved.

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Mark Twain

 

 

 




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23 Aug 2008 10:07 PM by On a mission ! Star rating in Caleta de Fuste,Fuer.... 52 posts Send private message

On a mission !´s avatar
Thank you Semi and Rob for more wise and sensible advice and observations

You are so right..........with calm comes order !!

Thursday afternoon meditation, yesterday afternoon deserted beach barbecue !!

Today, have not lost temper, have not bitten hub's head off, have not cursed neighbours' dogs under my breath !

Have made two new pages on website and only sworn twice.............in fact, feeling totally in control !!!

Mailing list on my website es no funciona !! .............can't fathom why not and have given up on it   .......... no importa !

Is this really me ??

    everybody !

Audrey

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27 Aug 2008 1:16 AM by On a mission ! Star rating in Caleta de Fuste,Fuer.... 52 posts Send private message

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Progress report !!!

It had been niggling away at me about being so unsure on the proper procedure at the EGM on the 5th September, somehow it just didn't feel right and/or I didn't know enough !

I was then lucky enough to receive a brilliant recommendation for a professional Administrator from a local English President ! This genius had turned her Community around from 60,000 deficit to 12,000 credit in one year, without raising fees !! Good enough eh?? Not to mention that he charges less than our current Asesoria !!

I decided to take the bull by the horns and yesterday I rang him for a chat.! He arranged to come and see us this morning ! This man is truly amazing !!! Sharp as a razor !! He looked at copy accounts for less than two minutes, correctly identified all the problems that took me three days to find and some more as well that I'd not noticed !! He was with us for nearly four hours and I have learned so much !! I am so glad I did it and it has proved that you cannot do better than talk to a professional.  No wonder he was so highly recommended !!
 
As if that were not enough, he's also a really nice guy who looks you straight in the eye when he's talking to you, has a good firm non-sweaty handshake, a good sense of humour, he is Spanish and he has very good English which means he can effectively communicate with all of us, and he is totally motivated to put things right !!!!!
 
I outlined our plans to him that we made at our meeting on August 18th and he came up with much better ideas...........ideas that follow correct procedure.............ideas that will actually work !! Exactly what we need !!
 
1. At the meeting on the 5th of September, we cannot elect a new President and Vice-President unless it is listed on the Agenda (that's the Law).
2. We could request in writing to the President/Vice-President that these elections be added to the Agenda, but this request is likely to be either ignored or refused !!
3. If we make this request, then that would be alerting the opposition to our plans and cause them to counter-campaign and quite possibly raise more votes than we can ! Therefore, this is not what we want to do !
4. Here is the best news, there is a big mistake on the Agenda, they are stating there is to be an election for a Secretary-Administrator, when they really mean for a Secretary!!! The Adminsistrator is the dreaded Asesoria who shall remain nameless !!!!!!! This is our golden opportunity to get rid of said Asesoria . How? We propose our newly-found "Wizard" as our new Secretary/Adminstrator and we work even harder at campaigning for votes and proxy votes to make sure we get him elected !! I feel strongly that we can manage this as it will cause far less alarm and counter-campaigning over an election for Secretary/Administrator than there would be over elections for President and Vice-President in addition.
5. Once we have got "Wizard" elected, he can actually immediately take over our Community finances and prevent any further mis-management or mis-appropriation of funds !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6. This may well cause the President and Vice-President to resign because it will make them totally ineffective as they can no longer access the Community's money !!!
7. If they do not resign, it doesn't matter ! Provided 25% of the owners agree ( and we are already passed 25% ) we can request, and not be refused (it's the Law) another Extraordinary Meeting within days of getting "Wizard" in place, and state our own Agenda which would be Elections for new President and Vice-President  and to set a new 2008 Budget.
8. All missions accomplished in the correct procedural manner and with the backing of the Law !!!!
 
"Wizard" has volunteered to come to our next owners meeting on the 1st of September  to meet  all supporters and to answer any questions they may have!

Having met him, I have complete confidence in him and I am more than happy to propose him as Secretary/Adminstrator at the EGM on the 5th September. Once the others meet him on 1st September, I'm sure they'll all feel able to back him and be happy to give him their vote !

I feel sooooo much better now !!!!

And as if that were not enough to make a gal's day..............today I've had a proxy vote arrive by post, a proxy vote arrive by email, and an email from a non-resident owner to say he's arriving on Thursday and will be here for our meeting on Monday and for the EGM ( so that's one less proxy to chase!) 






All !!!!






 

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27 Aug 2008 9:43 AM by semijubilada Star rating in London/Torrevieja. 1052 posts Send private message

What a find, no wonder you are happy.

Totally amazed by what I was reading.

I know you can't say very much about your community at the moment but did you find out how the other community president managed to raise 72k in one year.  

They didn't by any chance use the same administrators and Moises

Has he found out where the water money is?  To loose such a large sum of money sounds like fraud, can anything be done or would it involve a court case.


This message was last edited by semijubilada on 8/27/2008.



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03 Sep 2008 4:36 PM by promedia Star rating in Cheshire/Riviera del.... 134 posts Send private message

On A Mission

Wow dont you miss a lot when you go to spain for a couple of weeks??

Looking forward to hearing that your masterplan has all dropp;ed into place in the next few days.

Good Luck



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Ian Cook - Golf Gardens Miraflores - The best place to live on the Costa del Sol

"A day without sunshine is like.................night"




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03 Sep 2008 5:01 PM by On a mission ! Star rating in Caleta de Fuste,Fuer.... 52 posts Send private message

On a mission !´s avatar

Hi everyone !

Sorry I've not been by lately, but I know you'll understand that I've just been FAR TOO BUSY !!!

Thanks Promedia and Semi for your comments  Promedia, I so hope the master-plan works too, Friday's EGM will tell !
Semi, I can't tell you the ins and outs at the mo, but I will do later

Latest progress ..............

We had another owners meeting on Monday and there was a much better turnout, we are definitely gaining Spanish support which is brilliant and the proxy votes are still coming in, we're not up to majority I'm afraid but we're not far off !!

Aforementioned "Wizard" came to the meeting to meet everyone and answer questions. Everyone was impressed with him and he was formally adopted as our candidate in no time flat !!  Since the meeting, he and I have been beavering away trying to anticipate all the dirty tricks that may be pulled on us and ways around them !!!!!!

Oh, nearly forgot, on Tuesday we actually got to inspect the accounts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'll say no more than what an eye-opener at the mo, otherwise I'll be here for hours !!  So much to do, so little time !!!!

Everything depends on Friday now, so folks please keep everything crossed, send us your positive vibes, and pray for more Spanish support and more proxys !!!!

Take care all
Audrey 



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03 Sep 2008 5:44 PM by Roberto Star rating in Torremolinos. 4551 posts Send private message

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Very best of luck for Friday. This has become a really interesting saga, and I know all of us who have been following your progress will be crossing everything possible for you!

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05 Sep 2008 9:24 PM by promedia Star rating in Cheshire/Riviera del.... 134 posts Send private message

Come on Audrey.........

spill the beans........... what happened

we've all been sharing your mission and now you keep us in suspense on the outcome

is it because the 11am meeting is still going on !!!!!!!

or has the ex-president taken you hostage!!!

hope to hear from you sooner rather than later as i'm away for the weekend tomorrow morning?

ian

 

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"A day without sunshine is like.................night"




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06 Sep 2008 4:25 PM by On a mission ! Star rating in Caleta de Fuste,Fuer.... 52 posts Send private message

On a mission !´s avatar

I am so very sorry to keep you in suspense  .................................................truth is you had to wait for the abatement of the celebratory hang-over !!!!!!!!!!!!


http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k319/AudreyHarris/hg004101.gifYES !!!!!!! WE DID IT !!!!!!!!!!


This is a copy of the email I have just sent to all our non-resident owners giving a blow-by-blow account of last night's meeting !!!.................................................................... Enjoy !!!!!!!!


Hello everyone !
 
Wonderful news !! Last night's Extraordinary Meeting was exactly that !! I've never seen anything like it, there was almost a full turn-out and the atmosphere was electric, heated and stormy !!
 
A great big thank you to every one of you who gave your proxy vote to resident owners..........we couldn't have achieved what we have without you !!!
 
Report on the Meeting
 
The minutes of the AGM were disputed as not correct and there was a huge row over it !! Eventually, order was restored and the Community officials backed down and said that it will be stated in the minutes of last night's meeting that the 2008 Budget was not approved !!! First round to us !!
 
The election of a new Secretary-Adminstrator..........this was by far the best bit !!!..........our proposal and seconding of Jose Blank as our Secretary-Administrator took the Community officials by complete surprise and their faces were an absolute picture !!! (We think their plan was that no-one would bother to stand, that they would make Asesoria Blank Secretary-Administrator instead of just Administrator, and our finances would then have been sewn up completely between three people, who are either related or are in business together !!!) We had a HUGE majority, Spanish and English united and voted Asesoria Blank out and Jose Blank in ............it was wonderful to see everyone united on it !!! The only ones who voted against were the three officials !!! Second round to us !!!!
So now we have, of our own choosing, a totally honest, highly recommended and thoroughly checked out Secretary-Administrator in charge of our Community finances and our money ! Vitally important major achievement !!!
 
Date to close the pool................there was another huge row over this ! No-one really wanted to close the pool at all as they were concerned that it would never be opened again. We were promised a technicians report on what is actually wrong with the pool and quotes for the repairs at the AGM in March, to be fair these were produced, but there was such a row going on that the official got shouted down when he tried to read them out !!!!! The officials were telling us that the pool is leaking 1,400 euros worth of water per month !!?? Nobody was particularly convinced of that and there was a lot of feeling expressed about pool leakage being used as an excuse/cover-up for financial mismanagement! At this point, Jose Blank stepped in and said "Whether what they say is true about the pool wasting all this water, we will not know until I have thoroughly checked all the accounts. Please vote to close the pool temporarily to give me chance to look at the water accounts to see if this is true, and if it is to get an independent technician's report and quotes for repair and then find ways to pay for the repairs. If it is not true what they say, then the pool can quickly be re-opened" That sounded like plain common sense to us all and so we voted to close the pool temporarily, what else could we do? We can't just ignore the issue in the hope that it will go away !
 
Increase in fees or extra payment.................another huge row because no-one wanted to pay any more on the basis that the officials have not properly managed the money we've been paying, let alone pay them any more !! Once again Jose Blank stepped in and demanded to know why they wanted more money NOW !!! ...........and he got a truthful answer !!! The water company will cut off the entire Community's water next week if they do not get paid !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What do we do now ??? This is really bad news for us who live here and for those of you who have your house rented to tenants or holiday-makers !!!   Again, Jose Blank made a suggestion..........if we will agree to a one-off extra payment of 50 euros he will ensure that our water supply is not cut off..........and once he has familiarised himself with the accounts.............. if it can be managed, he promises that he will return our extra 50 euros payment to us all. Unfortunately, as you can see, it was a case of agree to paying an extra 50euros or have the water cut off..........we had no choice but to agree to the extra payment. No-one liked it, but, once again, what else could we do?
 
There was no questions and answers session, because at this point the officials got up and walked out !!!
 
After the meeting
 
Jose Blank met with the President and has arranged to meet with her at 2.30pm on Tuesday for everything to be officially and formally handed over to him (unfortunately, Monday is a Bank Holiday here)
 
Then........... the President tells Jose that she will resign !!
 
Then .............Jose finds out that the person who we all believed was the VicePresident is, in fact, only an owner the same as all the rest of us and has never been elected VicePresident !!
 
The phrases "one out, all out, everybody out" and "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" spring to mind!!!! Talk about absolving oneself of all responsibility while you've got the chance !!!!!! 
 
To sum up
 
Although this may sound horrific, it is in fact wonderful news ! We now have an honest Secretary-Administrator in place and that's the first major step achieved towards getting our Community sorted out and managed properly.
 
What's next?
 
The next step is that we will have to call another meeting to elect a new President and probably two Vice-Presidents, and set a proper 2008 budget that the Community can afford.This will undoubtedly include the dismissal of the maintenance man as he is costing half the Community's annual income and it does seem, although we must await confirmation from Jose, that our water money has been used to pay his and the President's salaries !!!!
 
As I understand it from Jose, the law states that 25% of the owners must sign a request for a meeting to be called, so we may well need you to sign this request form fairly soon. If so, I'll be in touch again asking you to sign yet another form. 
.
Yes, you've guessed it, once the meeting is called, we shall need your proxy votes once again!!
 
In the attachment, you will find a new proxy voting form that Jose has designed. It is a permanent proxy vote form. Once completed, your proxy will vote for you at any meeting that arises. This saves us having to harrass you for proxys every time there is a meeting !! You can, of course, revoke your proxy at any time, and, also, if at any time you are here when there is a meeting you can still vote yourself.
 
If you could please complete the attached form and email it to the proxy of your choice, that would be great and it will save a lot of bother for you and for us!
 
Finally, depending on Tuesday's handover meeting, Jose may want to open a new Community bank account. If this turns out to be the case, then there will be another new form for you to complete to authorise bank payments to the new account. I don't know yet and neither does Jose.
Rest assured that we will let you know as soon as we know and that we will email you the necessary form to complete and return if it is necessary.
 
I am sorry that this email is long and a bit complicated, I'm just doing my best to let you know what is going on...........as is your right!
 
If there is anything you don't understand, please don't hesitate to email me and I will do my best to help. If I don't know the answer, I will ask Jose for you !
 
Best wishes to you all and thank you once again for supporting us with your proxys! Votes are everything and the more we have the more we can achieve, as last night has already proven !!
 
Audrey




So there you have it...........................end of suspense !!! I expect you'll all be just as chuffed as I am and I await your comments with gleeful anticipation !!!!!

A huge great big thank you to all you EOS guys and gals cos without your advice, support, encouragement and finger-crossing I don't think I would have ever started this ................let alone got this far !!

  and to all !!!!!



This message was last edited by On a mission ! on 9/6/2008.

This message was last edited by On a mission ! on 9/6/2008.

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