Buying a resale property - need my hand held!!

I THINK I might have actually managed to agree a sale on a property (finally).  I have a quick question though.  I don´t want to take on the sellers mortgage (it is a resale) as I would prefer to choose my own bank.  I know that if the seller is a developer then by law the developer has to pay to cancel their mortgage - but what if the seller is private?  Who should pay to cancel his mortgage?

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I found this through Google.

Jerry built

Meaning

Built in a makeshift and insubstantial manner.

Origin

The phrase has been around since at least 1869, when it was defined in the Lonsdale Glossary:

"Jerry-built, slightly, or unsubstantially built."

By 1901, the term began to be used figuratively - a sure sign of acceptance into the general language. For example, The Daily Chronicle, in August that year printed this opinion:

"In an age of jerry-built books it is refreshing to come across a volume that has taken forty years to compile."

The derivation is unknown. What we do know is that the term has nothing to do with the UK slang term for German - Jerry/Gerry. This is of WWI origin and the citations above pre-date that. As always when a phrase's origin is unknown people like to guess, so here goes. It is possible that the term derives from the slang term jerrycummumble or jerrymumble. This was defined in the 1811 version of Francis Grose's Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue:

"JERRYCUMMUMBLE. To shake, towzle, or tumble about."

Some other guesses, although none of them appear to have any substantiating evidence, place the origin as:

- The cheap, flimsy constructs of Jerry Brothers - a Liverpool building firm. (Note: I've not been able to confirm the existence of this company).

- The walls of Jericho which, as everyone knows 'came tumbling down'.

- The Romany word for excrement - 'gerry'.

- A corruption of 'jury-rig' - although if that were the case we might expect to see some printed reference to 'jury-built' or 'jerry-rigged'. The former is unknown and citations of the latter all date from the 20th century.

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Your lucky just been knocked back for the second time an a resale which does not have the correct liscences

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This message was last edited by JeansSis on 5/17/2007.

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Jerezgirl: mortgages are Smiley's speciality, so he will probably answer this in due course. Normally with a resale, all the associated costs (except plus valia) are for the buyer's account, but I would have thought the sellers mortgage cancellation is not a normal expense arising from the sale. Surely the seller is responsible for cancelling his own mortgage? Smiley? Help?

Jolsveer: I like the Liverpool builder version, but the walls of Jericho seem more feasible. As for the Romany explanation, interesting, since Smiley's builder is of Eastern European origin! Thanks for those, anyway.

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Jerez Girl the vendors mortgage is the vendors responsibility and it should be discharged from proceeds of the sale - as should any penalty for early repayment - make sure this is clear with your lawyer - they can try to get the buyer to pay it. Sometimes you can find that an existing lender (if it is a small regional bank in a less well developed area) does not want to cancel the existing mortgage and might try and do anything they can on completion day to avoid cancelling the mortgage and get you to take it on. Had this about 18 months ago - bloody lawyer in cahoots with the bank as well and encouraging the client the easiest thing to do was subrogate the existing loan - didnt give the client the right terms or as much money - absolutely dreadful and the bank manager would not issue a cancellation certificate - eventually got sorted but unbelievable fiasco at the Notary - didnt complete on the day and took over a week for the existing lender to agree to the cancellation. 

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Smiley,

Just the person. I posted last week for info about this builders cancellation of mortgage we had to pay. My solicitor was at the end of his tether, as were we about having to pay for it. The Halifax was having none of it and just kept insisting we had to pay and kept reassuring us we would have it back. I suggested to my solicitor that he put a clause in for the halifax to sign to ensure we would get reimbursed as they kept telling us we would. They said yes via e mail but on day of completion refused to do it at the notary. We were at stalemate so went ahead with completion as we had waited over a year for our property, 10 months overdue. I am still waiting as they said it would take a couple of months. I will chase them up again but just wondered if this was the norm? Is it because the whole development must be completed before it is registered. Please shed some light for me.

Gina

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Hi Gina it is in fact illegal for the developer to insist that you pay the cancellation fee for the developers mortgage. What you might have paid is the Notary and Land Registry charges for cancellation. This is necessary otherwise the Halifax could not register the mortgage as a first charge. What normally happens at Notary is that there is a provision of funds (which is exactly as it sounds) to cover mortgage tax, Notary and Gestor charges etc. When the Escrutura is finally registered and the charges confirmed the Escritura is returned to you, usually via your lawyer and any surplus monies are credited to your bank account at that time. It is easier to make an over allowance and pay you back rather than under charge and then have to fight for months and months for them to get the outstanding monies out of you.   

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Thanks Smiley,

That is what they were saying but now you have explained it that way I understand. In your experience how long does it normally take?

Thank you

Gina

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Candyfloss,

I think you need to re-phrase your question.................

Have you noticed Smiley has not answered immediately?

He may be doing other things right now...............

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This message was last edited by JeansSis on 5/17/2007.

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Thanks Smiley.

So I can expect to NOT pay the cancellation charges on a resale property mortgage.  Is it illegal like on an off-plan, or just "understood"?

However, I will have to pay Notary and Land Registry charges for the cancellation. 

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Candyfloss: "In your experience how long does it normally take?"

Smiley hasn't answered still, so we will assume he has NO experience! In MY experience, it normally takes about 6 weeks for the notary's office to do whatever it is we pay them to do, and issue your new escritura. But it probably varies from one notary to another. Either way, in MY experience, they are usually pretty accurate with their estimate for the provision of funds, and you won't be getting much back.

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This message was last edited by JeansSis on 5/17/2007.

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Quote: "It was only because a kind forum member "elsewhere" gave me our notary's email address & I contacted him myself that we got anywhere". 

My experience has always been, if you want something done, you're better off doing it yourself. Sad, but true. I think many of the regular members here would agree (I know Fibby does!) It's not always that straight forward and is easier said than done, especially when trying to cope with a foreign language and culture etc, but thanks to the plethora of information available now online, and excellent resources like this forum, more and more people are able to tackle tasks that they previously would have had to rely on (sometimes unscrupulous) third parties for. Three cheers for EOS!

Can't wait to read the book, Janice.

P.S......and just because I got such a kick out of finding a context in which to use it, here it is again: PLETHORA. (Love that word!)

 

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This message was last edited by JeansSis on 5/17/2007.

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Funny innit - I like that word too but I have another for you Rob - myriad -

In my experience which is contrary to Robs - it very much depends on the bank involved and the Gestor they use. Usually with Halifax it is in the region of three months to get the escritura and also the refund if there has been an allowance from the over provision. Its kinda weird and one would think there were set figures that they would allow on the provision but it seems not to be the case and I have had instances where the over estimate has run into thousands - albeit not small mortgages but at the same time not mega mega mortgages - although on those it really can be quite substantial. I guess it gets paid into an interest bearing account controlled by the government somewhere and all those small amounts earn interest which added together make for a nice little earner - or am I being just too cynical! We have a table to work from issued by the Land Registry that means I can give a rough guide approaching completion - I can never get the figures to match those on the provision. Different lenders produce the provision in different ways to and some just lump all the charges together and not itemised one by one 

Jerez Girl in essence it is the vendors responsibility as it is their mortgage but as I said yesterday you should ensure your brief checks that this is paid from sale proceeds at the Notary - it may be understood but it should never ever be ASSUMED that what you expect is what will happen - this is Spain.

My infinite apologies (thats even more than a plethora) for not replying sooner but arrived home from work about 20 minutes ago (10.30 - still its only 9.30 really if you take off the hour) - long day in the saddle and will be another tomorrow

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Hi Roberto and Smiley

Thanks for the info, apparently it is 1245 euros that is to come back. Halifax said about 2 months. Just about now. Who will be notified my solicitor or should I chase Halifax first?

Gina

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Try the notary yourself - worked for Janice!

Smiley: "In my experience which is contrary to Robs"............this is a sad, sad day

Just read the last few posts to my better half, who is infinitely smarter than me (and watching over my shoulder), and explained to her that Smiley's experience is with institutions like Halifax due to the nature of his work. She said: if you're buying with a mortgage, you won't get your escritura for 25 years.

Guess she has a point?

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Well sadly old chum I am going to disagree with your trouble and strife - MOST mortgage lenders will send the original Escritura to the clients lawyer after the registration process has taken place - obviously it is all copied at the Land Reg but normally the Escritura goes to the buyer and this is most certainly so with Halifax

Hi Gina they should credit direct to your current account from the Gestor (probably a company called Intraser) that acted at completion - not that I know anything about Halifax completions of course. If its 2 I will be surprised - but ny 3 months it should be there.

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