Employees!

Well, Im sure this will be a controversial thread.

We took on a member of staff who talked her way into the job and was quite frankly useless at it! Stupidly I felt sorry for her and would smooth things over so she kept her job - meanwhile her job description got smaller and smaller!

At the time that even I couldnt hack it anymore and decided to fire her, she became pregnant - after suffering a miscarriage and I felt sorry for her again. Realizing she would eventually leave to have her child and stay at home looking after it (yes I did for the 1st 5 years of each of my childrens life, I believe they need their mothers) I assumed an easy way out.

Oh Oh no! She stayed right up til giving birth and then decided she would come back after 4 months claiming on the social!

We said no thanks and she has now taken us to court! She is demanding over 8000 euros after working for us for around 14 months and has taken the action personally so its against our homes as well.

Now, with the way things are going, we are really struggling to keep heads above water. i dont have a flash car and I do have 2 dependant children. She has been offered a third of the request and we have been told to pay it immediately or the case will proceed to court. Any judgement will be immediate and until an actual court date we are liable to pay her salary - without her being here!!!!!

Short of selling the house and leaving the country there is NOTHING I can do and I wish I had NEVER taken pity on her.

So - a warning to all employers out there DONT EMPLOY ANYONE. Do a 6 month contract then fire them and find someone else otherwise you find your hard work, sweat and tears taken up by a lazy good for nothing git who uses the system against you.

Thank you for listening - I know many of you will take her side but I had to get that one off my chest!

Hi Rixxy, I am not taking her side at all, i think she used you.

Was she Spanish or English?

sounds like she knows the system well and has played you into a corner.

i feel sorry for you, in business, you just have to be a hard nut i guess.

Can we start a save Rixxy fund on EOS?!

Sorry, i don't mean to jest, it must be very worrying for you......Let us know how things go and yes, we are here to get things off you chest, so don't worry on that score........

Kind regards,

Thanks both of you. She was argentinian and to be honest we took pity on her, paid her cash until she got her residentcy, helped her with it and gave cash bonuses if and when we did ok! Yes I feel totally used and the system here is very different and hard.

Thanks again

Hi babe think you will find most of the sympathy here will fall your way - JaniCE - employment law is very very different here and leans very much in favour of the employee - you have to be so frigging careful - whether Spanish or otherwise makes no difference - the Spanish will tend to be worse as they really know how to work the system if they are of that mindset but there are Brits who do it too.

Hi Rixxi,

Nothing but sympathy from me.  I went through the same thing 18 months ago. 

I had to close an office down when things were begining to bite.  Had 2 employees with over 3 years of service.  One was up to naughties with clients taking them to another agent (her friend) and splitting the comission between them.  It helped me decide to close the office as there seemed no end to her scams and thieving.

With my lawyers help I made them redundant, but it´s different here in Spain especially with Spanish employees.  I had sit through several laboral tribunals and was chastised by the judge for allowing the office to become so underfunded that we had to get rid of staff, I couldn´t beliieve that some socialist git was telling me how I should run my business when it would have been easy for me to say that the employee has stolen from me and I probably could still have kept the office open had the four sales she gave to her friend had been mine!!!!

Also 3 jobs in total had been lost because of her filthy stealing habits.

She got 14,000€ redundency and I had to pay her and her representative there and then before I left the building.  No one asked if I had anything to say on the matter.  I was livid and now will not employ anyone again.

When people come to me for a job, I see it as just a matter of time before they decide to rob me blind!

All staff now are self employed commision only related to total office sales and if they don´t come back with the client I naturally assume they have nicked them and hold an inquest.

This is all a real shame as when I set my business up I wanted to do it the Richard Branson way with trust and informality...but alas it doesn´t work here.

Good luck in the UK Rixxi...I hope you sell loads of housesXX

Thanks to all of you. Gillespie, your ride was worse than mine is going to be. If I had it I would pay and thats the truth.

Hopefully I can it will be sorted before it goes to the final judgement but it does leave such a bitter taste!

Im seething now just thinking about it.

Thanks Gillespie - I dont expect to sell in the UK but there are people still interested in buying in Spain, mainly for own use. If I get any leads up your way I will send them to you.

Have a great evening folks and again many thanks for the support

Hi rixxy

Im not an agent (sori for being on here) I am an employer in the UK and really feel for you in this situation. weve had similar done to us, feeling sorry for someone, each time you go to fire them something happens to them, you dont have the heart to do it. This guy was stealing left right and centre we just needed proof that would stand up. Then he decided to leave, great hes done it for us i says, but no he said he would work a month til he found something else, another month went by, and another, then proof came to the stealing with 3 other staff members willing to testify in court, so after going through all correct procedures of disciplinary interviews,  firing him, he appeals, more disciplinary interviews final decisions, sorry your fired, he takes us to court for religious discrimination and after 2 years of fighting he walks away with 6 and a half grand also leaving us a bill of 10K.

How fairs that, didnt see that one coming.

Just a wee note fo Jeansis - in the UK it is not 2 years, you could employ someone and 2 days later they tell you they are pregnant, sorry but they have full legel rights and you cant touch them, believe me, been through that too. thankfully checked it all out before i did something to regret it.

Us Employers need to be so careful in everything we do and say every minute. Its just amazing what people do. I have tried to stop feeling for peaple although its hard because im not that type of person but i have 3 kids of my own to feed.

Rixxy i think you may beable to come to an arrangement with courts as i dont think they can take your house if youve kids.

We now pay a small charge every month to an insurance company who advise us every step (basically hold our hand) through any incidents or problems with employees and if they do win in court, providing we have done what they have told us, we are insured against all claims.

Maybe you should check out if there is a such like company in spain, if not i could ring mine and see if they know of any out there

Well all the best and I hope it all works out for you

Will be thinking about you in this

take care

sandra

Hi Rixxy,

"Frankly - you do give a damn"

Just to say - hope all gets sorted.   I am a great beleiver that those that do wrong get their come-uppance sooner or later and you will get back what you have lost in one form or another.  Good Luck

Cheers

Ellen - Been there and done that too!!

Rixxy, best of luck with this.

One of the biggest problems I have is that I have too many ideas but am so reluctant to take people on to get them done.  I actually end up contracting work out to people all over the world as it helps get around the problem of employing people to grow my businesses.  I'm a rubbish boss anyway and way too soft so it works best for me like that.

Wow you lot, Im hubbled by all your responses. I thought I wold stir up a storm when I put this on and I wanted to post it a couple of weeks ago when it all came to a head.

Sandra thats awful for you and so frustrating. My girl stated in her request that she wanted to come back to work! Today I told the guy she could do and work 9 til 7pm and boy would I find her such hard work to do!!

I also said I will close the business and sign on - I have been here 12 years and residencia for 11 of tham. ALso paid stamp and been as legal as I can be - she has been here legally 2 years nearly!

So I reckon I could go unemployed, work via Portugal/Morocco and claim the spanish version of dole and the junta can provide a house for me.

It really gets my back up especually as I came out here, got divorced, kept the kids and worked my balls off ( thats why I have none) to get where Ive got to, no easy selling off plans here and making fortunes. Never ripped anyone off, cleaned apartments and worked such unbeleivable hours to put my kids through private spanish school and finally bought us a house last year, so to even have the thought of it all being taken away by that, that person makes me incredibly angry.

But yes I firmly do beleive that what goes around comes around and I may just get onto other forums and post her name around. Argentinian people are usually a proud race, hard workers and good. Her group of argies are appalled at what she is doing.

Stupid thing is if she had spoken with me all this would have been avoided and she would have got the money but with a good heart, not the way Im feeling now.

Im not a violent person, but I could punch her lights out at this moment in time!

Think I will go and refill teh glass of wine and calm down now.

And I have employed another girl, got 2 young kids, she has flexible hours and you just know this wont happen with her, she is a great worker. Nearly had to let her go a eek ago financially but she is worth her weight in gold - too good to get rid of, so hopefully all will be ell.

Thanks agaon to all who post here and dont worry about not being agents!

Jeansis

Sorry if i came accross patronising or in a know-it-all sort of way. It was as you said about 15 years ago but was all changed. I really was just trying to save anyone from walking into a bad situation by thinking it was 2 years. apologies.

sandra

Yes it is unfair. I do understand the laws for the big guys who do throw their weight around but for a small business its a nightmare.

We only have 1 member of staff and anyone else is now self emp and actually she was as well beleive it or not. SHe invoiced us monthly for admin work and still the buggers beleive she was fully employed since the company started!

No matter that the new lady would be made unemployed if this sum of money has to be paid, they dont give a monkeys about that or that both my partner and myself have young kids involved.

Hey ho, head down and battle on. Been through worse.

Chrism1620

Is right on the money, with more and more large and small companies using specialist HR advisors. Basically they have specialists on the end of a phone when you need them. They can give advice relating to handling what may appear, minor discipline matters to larger issues such as unsatisfactory work, dismissal or redundancy, even supplying the exact wording for all the required correspondence.

Of course this all comes at a cost, but so does being at the wrong end of a tribunal judgement were the payouts for certain cases have large, and in some cases, no limits. But remember you need good internal processes to ensure you apply their advice as stated and more importantly be able to prove this if they loose a case. With this being an insured risk you will want to escape any liability e.g. invalidated house insurance after a break-in because you left a window open! 

A growing trend is for unscrupulous solicitors (perish the thought) to offer wasters no win no fee cases against large companies knowing that a 6-10k out of court settlement to dispose of a nuisance value cases is likely, as defending such cases costs companies much more in staff attendance and legal costs. I have been at the end of a few of these and it makes you blood boil.

Basically, it's a jungle out there !

Thanks Gillespie - I dont expect to sell in the UK but there are people still interested in buying in Spain, mainly for own use. If I get any leads up your way I will send them to you. - Rixxi

Oops, I missed that Rixxi, My eyes were filled with tears and venum  Thanks for the offer and look forward to your return.

Have a nice stay in London and enjoy youself loads.

Hey Rixxy

People like that are making it really difficult for honest hardworking people to find work here in Spain employment is really hard to find with a full time contract and benefits and anyone who has got one should be really grateful to their emloyees for giving them the opportunity to live and work in this care free relaxing sun filled wounderful country.