| The Comments |
** EDITED - Please respect forum rules **
This message was last edited by EOS Team on 07/10/2009.
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Dear All,
Oh dear, we haven't really lost two valued contributors just to keep Just Dan, the shadowy agent, no it can't be true.
You would not do that to us Justin, no no no, of course not.
Regards
Norman
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N. Sands
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This thread's better than Corrie, thanks to all concerned.
Now off to the naughty step the lot of you.
_______________________
CondadoFamilyGolf.com
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Yes, "let's keep it friendly"
Shame I missed the thread in question. However this one seems to be as bad!
Whenever I post it puts the "kiss of death" on the thread, lets hope it happens this time too.
BTW, I'm dyslexic ( I even had to look that word up!) so sorry if I've made any mistakes in grammer or spelling
Take care.
Fiona X
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No matter where you go, there you are.
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better bad spelling than bad mouthing any day lets all party and enjoy life in spain
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Joking aside there is a serious point here.
Please Justin can you find a way to reassure the majority of members by ensuring that anyone who can be proven to have a hidden agenda or knowingly misleads us all within this forum are struck off. Otherwise the forum will lose its credibility and be perceived as fake. We need to believe in the debates, advice and suggestions made within these serious threads (even if sometimes we don't agree with the conclusions) without having to worry if we are being manipulated in the process. I think many of those striving to achieve solutions to a very unfair justice system do so by honest means, and just at the point where we might have "come together" to forge a powerful lobby group it appears that the focus has been lost. For those honest contributors please stay strong.
Before anyone accuses me of pointing the finger at anyone in particular I'm talking about a principal of trust here, which is the very basis upon which this forum retains its credibility.
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Dear Justin,
when you or anyone else "tells it like it is" the forum is great and deserves every admiration.
but this "friendly" business can be carried to far.
Some are blatant traders seeking business, some are shadowy traders with no premises, up to mischief.
Some are just up to plain mischief, social vandals, like those who killed CB radio, sad cases.
Some are "pretty boys" posting their favourite picture of themselves and seeking contact.
So please be careful who you ask me to be friendly with.
I have my limits.
Regards
Norman
_______________________
N. Sands
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Norman, you don't need to nice to everyone and I wouldn't expect that!
The real problem is threads getting taken over and trashed when it all gets nasty and then it all has nothing to do with what the original thread was about.
All I'm asking is that we all respect the originators of the threads and their topics. PMs are a much better place to settle grievances.
Thanks
Justin
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Schools in Spain Guide | The Expat Files | Learn Spanish | Earn a living in Spain
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Hidden agenda can mean many things and doesn’t always have to be underhand or hidden
.Instance . If someone has a personal grievance against a development/developer/solicitor it is on their agenda to inflict as much damage as they can regarding them. Someone may not agree and has had a good experience so it is on their agenda to try to correct and post what they feel is the truth.
Both should have the same rights on a forum if it is to be a trusted impartial source of information
The same applies to the opposite.
The same can be said about Spain itself. Peoples agendas are always different and that even includes any fight for justice even if we cant always see that.
I feel that some want the agenda with regards to Spain as always to be negative. My agenda is that’s unfair and my agenda its to try to balance to good with the bad.
Someones agenda imay to even try to get another poster not to post.Is this not a hidden agenda ?
Someones agenda may be to get rid of any estate agent that wishes to post .Is this not a hidden agenda?
Some may want to promote their own solicitors. Is this not a hidden agenda when there are other good ones.
The important thing is that we should all be entitled to have our say and be able to combined all of our experiences in a genuine Fight For Justice. Tell me why someone cant post something positives about Spain and if they try to then join a fight for justice they must have a hidden agenda in some people eyes. Why is it that its frowned upon that someone that doesn’t have problems cant support a just and honest fight. This is pure folly and the ultimate hidden agenda
One persons views on how to tackle it may be different to another and separate groups are then formed and very difficult to form any united front .
This is life. We all have agendas to do what we feel is right. That’s the important thing here. There will always be conflict and that’s doesn’t mean anyone should be accused of anything by having a different honest agenda that differs from any one person or a group.
Why do those like La Reserva have to sit on the side not wanting to post because of being ridiculed as was the case when posting. Probably won’t post again yet potentially a very good ally in the fight
I just hope that the 2 that have left just see that most of us are just and honest, return to the forum as they both have so much to offer.
We may not agree totally at times but that’s democracy. One thing that is so important is that we are civil to each other for the sake of the thousands that rely of this forum and enjoy the efforts put in by the team of E.O.S
Hope the spelling and grammer is O.K but it really is the best I can do
This message was last edited by Chimps on 08/10/2009.
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I understand that honest debate is healthy and that we each come with our own personal experiences and the need to relate those experiences to other members of the forum. That is good healthy and proper debate. What I am concerned about is if those relating of their experiences are potentially perpetuating a scenario where abuse injustice and malpractice is encouraged to continue via hidden and manipulative means.
This message was last edited by ads on 08/10/2009.
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A perfect point here ads
Your agenda is the Fight For Justice and possibly for nothing else.
When someone like me thats comes along and wants also to fight alonside you all but he loves Spain the problems can start.
He /she feels that all is not bad . He /she is not totally focused on just the Fight For Justice.
This in some eyes this is wrong. How can he support the fight and then say he is trying to help someone out of a situation when the total poison should be attacked ,This is seen as mix messages and someone that must have a hidden agenda.Whats this person doing here as he posted something nice last week about Spain
Its seen as someone that is diluting the fight ..I will aways fight for whats wrong.However I will also fight for what I feel is right..
No one will ever change that.
One thing I do is always try to keep it civil though its tough at times as we all know when it gets a bit heated but in reality that life.
Just move on and forget hidden agenda against someone that may have upset you in the past. Thats simply not right or fair on the whole forum) Thats a personal hidden agenda and the worst of all.As far as I can see they go years back.Bloody hell get a life.Understand that you may have upset them to start with simply because they misunderstood you posting.
Surely we are all adults (perhaps not me as I tend to trust to much and take people on face value)
If you really want a united front in any fight then all should be welcomed even if on some aspects they dont agree.As I said .No one changes what believe in.I love Spain. I despise the legal system. Either my support is welcome here or I fight on my own.
Correct any manipulation should be stamped on.
How am I doing on the spelling and grammer. Dont do spell checks. If Icock up then what the hell. I
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Please don't assume that those who are fighting for justice don't love Spain...it's a false assumption and leads to the wrong conclusions.
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ads . I dont
As you say what we post at times leads to the wrong conclusions
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"When someone like me thats comes along and wants also to fight alonside you all but he loves Spain the problems can start. "
Logical conclusion given the above statement Chimps.
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we do indeed need transparancy and honesty on this forum. We know some have changed names and one even posts using different names. This is not only pathetic but dishonest. Somehow these frauds need to be weeded out and exposed for what they are. That is the reason some are leaving the forum. If the frauds are low enough to use different PC's , addresses etc, then it makes it hard for Justin to prove, but the clues are in the posts! As you say, as long as anyone feels manipulated or that someone has a hidden agenda then much good is lost, and that I believe is part of the agenda?
Most of us have faced cheats in the system, sadly we sometimes have to face the same on forums, and losing honest contributors is a high price to pay.
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Absolutely in agreement there Goodstich.
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100% agree that transparancy and honest statements and in particular about another forum member is a vital factor
Manipulation is when someone is attempting to change your views/peoples views about you or a situation through at times any means possible.
Some will leave a business,club and yes a forum in an attempt to draw attention to their believes and yes to stamp their feet if they cant have things run as they would ideally like it.. This is manipulation and an agenda all of its own. We did this at school when we took our ball home because we couldnt get into the team
Now why would anyone wish to change their names.?Suggestions.
Say. La Reserva who posted and clearly was made to feel very unwelcome. Maybe he/she would wish to try again and as he /she has already been labelled as being either a plant or being someone else. Perhaps as they feel they have something to offer they may try again to help avoid further abuse under a different name ?.
May be someone had posted something which was taken the wrong way.They had a hostile responce and it went down hill from there and want still to be involved and wants a clean slate.
Maybe its the lady that warned me off on the other thread and got it big time.Later a regular poster put forward what a lovely honest lady she is. Perhaps the was previous bad blood.
Perhaps they may have been an good and honest agent who has been victimised by the forum and feels this not right .He knows if he posts again under the same name he will get it in the neck. May be his feels he/she can really help
I dont have all the answers but just maybe some change names because they have part of an agenda to get them out of the way.
Your guess is as good as mine here. Maybe just maybe some forum members may look at themselves to understand the reason? Once you labelled on a forum its seems that the end and no way back if you have come accross wrongly
Example. If I were to post that I was happy on the development that say Norman has problems on. I would be classed as the enemy. Thats a fact and we all know it.
Take a look at all of the development community sites where those that post postives are always hit with the same negative posters. The positive posters are driven underground. May be as they want to see positives posted to get a true reflectionn they do it under different names as most just dont want the hassle
I find it very difficult indeed how anyone should or would need to have hidden agenda. As I said I tend to trust to much and take people as I see them until some thing happens to change my views.
Treat people like you would like to be treated yourself and maybe the world would be a more honest place.
This message was last edited by Chimps on 08/10/2009.
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Quote Goodstich 44
we do indeed need transparancy and honesty on this forum. We know some have changed names and one even posts using different names. This is not only pathetic but dishonest. Somehow these frauds need to be weeded out and exposed for what they are. That is the reason some are leaving the forum. If the frauds are low enough to use different PC's , addresses etc, then it makes it hard for Justin to prove, but the clues are in the posts! As you say, as long as anyone feels manipulated or that someone has a hidden agenda then much good is lost, and that I believe is part of the agenda?
Most of us have faced cheats in the system, sadly we sometimes have to face the same on forums, and losing honest contributors is a high price to pay.
And some of us have left the forum because, if we dare say our experience is good and we are enjoying it, we get slagged off by people who only want people to post nasty stories. Sorry, but there are hundreds of thousand of Brits who have bought their property (both off plan and resale), who live, or intend to live, in Spain and thoroughly enjoy themselves which seems to rankle greatly with some posters.
And that is definitely my last word on the subject. I had vowed not to post again due to the hypocrisy and mud slinging by the hijackers on here and I will now get my coat and leave.
Bye
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well said bobaol
this summarises exactly the problems with this forum
one tries to put a positive slant on the situation
and the 3 or 4 rotweillers are running you down
accusing posters of having hidden agendas.
secret names and alliances
we sympathise with their plight but they are the minority
and are reluctant to admit their own failings.
in their predicament they are in
i hope they all get justice but fear they wont.
2 down 1 to go
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Its clear whether some likes to hear it or not that a small number of the posters who have become rather to tight knit abusing this fact and feel it offers them protection which it clearly does as they post what they like and it even offensive posts. If anyone else were to post in anything resembling the same vain then it would be deleted. Do these not have motives to manipulate?
They feel that they are allowed to treat others in a way that if treated that way by others it would result in being accused of being rude or insulting.
As can be seen a couple have left so as they rest of the small group can then use this as kids would in a school ground .Guysl!look at what he has done.tp me!!!!!!
Is this not dishonest. Is this not an underhand motive to control ?Is this not happening right now because someone has dared to answer back with totally accurate responses to correct abusive accusations.
Who are these that judge others to decide if someone is a good person or a bad person and accordingly the future of a potential poster . Who are these that label people they have never met. You would probably meet the same person in real life and really get along not knowing each others alter ego
Why are community threads always hi jacked by the same people posting anything negative they can and attacking those that the thread was designed for being those with a real interest or property owners. Of course reality is that there are problems on many developments however it is there any real reason for some to jump on each thread and often insult the positive owners who are trying to get things right.
I really feel that its unfortunate as it is that a couple leave that are here for personal reasons shadow in the hundreds that leave because they are simply fed to the teeth of what they see on what is a great site at times.
What is the future when there is good news on issues like the P.G.O U plan and property prices do show signs of movement Who will be around to spread the good news. More important will they be allowed to
Now I feel that many will realise that somewhere along this short road something I have posted will be picked up and taken as a cardinal sin and probably get removed from the site.
Oh yes forgot maybe that’s another reason that someone has to post in another name as they clearly may have lots to offer homeowners and meet with people who have real interests in Spain its self..
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