Let's keep it friendly

Dear All,

I am sitting near the radiator listening to the thermostat clicking on and off, the roar of the boiler as it eats up my precious winter fuel allowance and also wondering what is wrong with these strange people that they cannot stand any thread that is not adoring to Spain.

Why oh why are they so insecure??????????????????????????????

why aren't they like Justin and Susan and Irene & Alan content and making the most of things, having a good time spending their winter fuel allowance on Cava whilst they luxuriate in their pools and saunas etc.????????????

why do they insist on infesting problem threads with their incessant irrelevances??????????

for goodness sake go wherever and console each other with your perpetual moral boosting nonsense.

But be very friendly whilst you are doing it.

From one who likes Spain enjoys Spain but doesn't swoon and get giddy about it.

Who started off looking only for a holiday home in the sun, but is now somewhat drawn to the Irene & Alan situation, somewhere as far as possible away from the totally boring expats that drool.

Regards

Norman

Dear Norman

in case you had not noticed this thread is called lets keep it friendly and not

one of the problem threads.

still you object to our posting.

we do not see Spain through rose tinted glasses but see the glass as half full

we may never see eye to eye but you bitterness blinds your judgement

i wish you well but fear your experience of Spain has  clouded your judgement.

best wishes

One thing for certain is that personalising an argument or making bold generalisations, or being over defensive, or establishing other identities is no solution in the long run.

Being dispassionate to those who have, through no fault of their own, found themselves to have been significantly financially compromised by a Spanish system that everyone knows to have been corrupt and continues to exhibit major injustices, only alienates and reinforces the pain. So long as those thankfully happy with their Spanish life continue to put down those who have legitimate ongoing legal problems by falsely suggesting they are intentionally putting Spain down, or criticise them for highlighting continuing abuses, we will never make progress together, or resolve a problem that maybe one day you may find (through no fault of your own) that you too are unwittingly exposed to.

These are not just small issues we are highlighting here or that they have affected just a few. These are major abuses that have affected all too many and unfortunately you can’t put a positive slant on that. To try and silence those who forewarn others of the unfortunate realities in their attempt to spare them a similar fate will only perpetuate a legal system (and developer abuse) that is long overdue reform.

This forum is not just for those content with their lot but also presumably to allow honest discussion, to address issues that need resolving, to help one another. So long as the debate focuses on an “us and them” fractious scenario, then problems identified will never be resolved to the benefit of all.

Dear Peteha,

thank you for your good wishes

I admire your confidence, I cannot compete, how do you do it??????????

you seem to know all, yet you have only been around two minutes, you have no profile, no identity, have made only 8 posts, but have such knowledge, almost as if you have many years of experience, amazing.

you have correctly recognised my bitterness but mistakenly carry it to extremes of blindness and clouded judgement.

it actually extends only to a bit of tar and feathering of certain lawyers and developer's agents.

as to the thread, if you check you will find it is something of an "offshoot".

Enjoy your good fortune, but try not to cloud any issues, that might not be considered as being friendly.

Regards

Norman

ads

well said indeed. Common sense with sympathy and understanding for those wronged.  I think all of us wronged wish all the best to those that are happy with their lot, it is after all the position we wanted and have fought so hard and so long for. I have no axe to grind with those who are happy, but some of them think because we post our experience 'as it is' that we are somehow putting them down?

I  just don't know what to say to those who criticise us for attacking a system that has failed us so badly or for pointing out that there are people on the forum who are not being honest about their identity or their viewpoint. 

I think we have to stay positive in the knowledge that there are many good and honest people who support our fight for justice and continue to post friendly and helpful advice. As for the others?, I can't imagine being that selfish to those who have already been treated so badly . If nothing else it makes you value those who you can trust to know right from wrong and support accordingly.

As you say, we will only find solutions by sticking together and fighting for what is right and many people are trying to force the changes needed that will not only benifit those cheated but everyone involved in the Spanish property industry. Pretending the problem's not there or ignoring it, or worse still criticising those who stand up for their rights and wont give up, isn't going to solve anything.  I'm sure those cheated will post positive when the time is right and justice is done.

Just though .I would jump in before someone like me was really needed
 

.

Hello Peteha

Nice to see you posting again, Good to see Candy Floss posting again.  You know the real decent people that in the mutiples have left the forum.

Let me address your comment.   2 Down and 1  to go  ?

Norman Sands.  You have alot to say for yourself ,less than friendly to new posters.existing posters and even those that have been kind enough to offer help and advice.

Let me start your reply

Dear All

Firstly in the futue I will endevour not to be rude and insulting to anyone ............Over to you Norman. Lets keep it friendly now.

Never know Balboa and others just may just feel its worth posting again . You know Norman the ones with a profile who are the mainstay of how the forum used to be..

Hello All,

I suppose that I am one of the lucky ones in that the urbanisation where I have my apartment has been built to a decent standard and the company EuroMarina, in general have been very good in resolving any isuues that we have had. The complex is not yet finished and phase three has come to a halt. Fair enough. In the current economic climate it's only to be expected. We are surrounded by waste land where there should be apartments, villas, pools etc but I believe that in time it will happen, and for now I can enjoy not being overlooked by my neighbours across the (Very wide) road.

Ok having said all that, I'm still suffering with eveyone else who has a spanish mortgage and has watched the pound crashing against the euro and just when it starts to pick up a little, Big mouth Mervyn King trashes the currency to start the slide for another month.

But let me say that I totally support you guys who have been wronged so badly by the spanish legal system. It could easily have been me. No matter how much research I did, I can see that it wouldn't have mattered and I could so easily have been shafted. So; I am lucky and I thank my lucky stars.

With hindsight I most likely would not have bought in spain, but then I probably would have lost my dosh on the stock markets!

So at least I do have something to show and I just hope that I can afford to continue with the mortgage payments for a few more years.

Good Luck to you all. It can't be easy to stay positive with what has happened to you. I know I would find it very difficult if I was in your shoes, but I am sure that there are lots more people like me reading these posts that do support you and wish you all the best.

Thank you Patman.

There you go ads.

Thats. Patman as well as me.  Just 2 of the thousands the may wish to offer help and support in anway we can

You really do have massive support thats always been closed.

Open the doors to all and there is a small chance that we can make a difference.

Hi Peteha,

you are so right, it seems every thread that opens eventually becomes hijacked by some people and the exact same subject is once again rehashed time and time again.

Norman -  you are becoming a bitter and twisted person (maybe you always have been) who are you to decide that people on this site are not allowed to to say that they are  happy living in Spain, you  pop up on several threads with your sacastic remarks, e.g. ex pats in Spain getting the heating allowance, which they are entitled to or they would not get it. I think somebody should start a nasty thread then you and all the other knockers can give the rest of us a chance to get back to some nice helpful threads.

Whether or not we are happy owning a property in Spain there is no getting away from the fact that the World knows, and quite rightly so, just how flawed this county is and therefore it is in the interest of everyone to fight for justice for those whose money has been fraudently taken by the corruption.

Those with legal properties, and I am one fortunately, will if the need arise have a hard time selling because no-one trusts anyone in authority in Spain.  After our demise our  properties will become ruins because our heirs will not be able to afford the death duties,let alone the upkeep.

I have this feeling that unless we work together Spain is going to have the last laugh.

Face it folks. Love or hate Spain. We are all in the same boat.

Hi Norman

you say

you seem to know all, yet you have only been around two minutes, you have no profile, no identity, have made only 8 posts, but have such knowledge, almost as if you have many years of experience, amazing.

i say

no where in my post to i say i know all

i have lived and worked in Spain for over 10years.

not all of us feel the need to post but enjoy reading the interesting threads

and yes even the contentious ones

i continue to wish you well despite the disparaging comments

patman

thanks for your support and understanding. Sounds like you have a good grasp on the situation as does floella.

floella

yes indeed, so true. This is a drum i've been banging for so long now, the fact that the changes those wronged are trying to force through are the very changes that would benifit all, not just those of us living an ongoing nightmare!  The 'i'm alright Jack' brigade are not only showing a selfish streak almost beyond belief, but are burrying their head in the sand as well. The system stinks and needs changing. My case is a perfect example of this if anyone needed any more proof. As you say, unless everyone works together on this, the the current mess which started way before the world recession will just carry on!

How many times must we keep saying Corruption, Lack of regulation, slow and poor justice?  Until these things are faced and dealt with head on then what chance of recovery?  If people are fed up of hearing that, perhaps rather than criticise, they should get of their backsides and do something to help bring about much needed change. I'ts very obvious that those in a position to bring about change will not do that without pressure, and I believe that pressure will only come with large numbers demanding change and fighting for justice how ever long and by what ever means it takes.

The alternative?........well let's all sit back and do nothing, just accept you have been cheated, stop posting negative about the Spanish system and have forum full of 'happy clappy' posts, ignoring the problems not only for those wronged but as you say floella for everyone living in Spain.

Dear All,

thank you for the good and sensible posts, much appreciated.

For the record I have quite a deep interest in Spain's new inhabitants and am something of an avid reader of the various life experience blogs and posts on EOS especially those with country/farming and those with building/construction elements.

I wish everyone well in their endeavours and freely offer any technical opinion if required, no charge, no fee, you don't even have to be friendly.

Dear Peteha,

thanks for putting me straight and your understanding, again much appreciated, can you not add your profile of ten years useful experience and knowledge, in a way I was guessing correctly I suppose.

Dear Patman,

superb and sensible, irresistible logic, but you are so right to warn as you did.......

So at least I do have something to show and I just hope that I can afford to continue with the mortgage payments for a few more years.

that is the one thing that stops me being "bitter and twisted" about my loss of life savings, in fact I would be as right as rain if I could just nail a few villains.

Floella again great stuff and no nonsense.

1962

- how sad, I think bitter and twisted sums up your post, which upsets me because I am sure I would really like to see your place and what you are doing and to know more.

Surely you are not defending the insane idea of us poor Brits forking out any of our ever diminishing resources to send fuel money to the sun worshippers to feed their need for air conditioning, come now lets have some realism.

Regards

Norman

"Surely you are not defending the insane idea of us poor Brits forking out any of our ever diminishing resources to send fuel money to the sun worshippers to feed their need for air conditioning, come now lets have some realism".

After watching a BBC programme about the horrendously bad weather conditions in Yorkshire I can understand what your gripe about WFA is Norman.

However I read this annual " Tax free benefit " slightly differently in that it really has nothing to do with heating bills but was simply a ploy to keep pensioners happy.  Surely otherwise it would be distributed to those in need rather than carte blanche regardless of status or income.

The cheapest option. A one off payment instead of increasing the basic state pension in line with other countries in the EEC.

I ask you poor Brit? What do you think is the better deal for broke UK ?

The return of expat pensioners requiring pension credits ,council and housing benefits. Maybe care allowance and most certainly medication and hospital care . All this costing a minimum of 50GBP a week or we stay in a country with more sun but in winter freezing houses for a measly 110 GBP annually .

Think the sums speak for themselves. However it should be taxable.

Just for the record, I would like to repeat what I said on the Goodstich thread before it was deleted, don't know if you read it before Goody.

Well done Goodstich, I will be sending you some bling soon.

Also, in case it wasn't noted by the attackers, I had to comment and I was appalled at the way Jane was spoken to!! I will say it again Jane is NOT an agent and she is the most genuine and thoughtful person I have ever met and I am so lucky to have her as a friend.

I wish everyone well with their fight for justice and hope that you will all receive compencence for the wrongs that have been done.

Dear All,

what a shame if there has been any misunderstanding

some further understanding perhaps for people under intolerable pressure

hope everybody comes round and continues the good work

give it a go people

Regards

Norman

Candyfloss

thanks as always for your continuing support. It was great to win our case after 7 years, but the two years+ delay to reach sentence in which time the already fragile company when in to administration speaks for itself! 

As for this' keeping it friendly' thread, apart from some not being honest about their ID, I think much of the bad feeling on here is caused by misunderstandings that are not easy to put right without being face to face. Also, those of us wronged obviously feel bitter towards the system that has let many of us down so badly. We can't pretend our situation is in any way acceptable, so our posts are bound to be often angry or on the gloomy side until justice is done.  We are not attacking those who are content/happy unless they are blind to the cause of our situation or criticise us for banging the same drum and doing everything we can to highlight the need for change. I think if we all sat round a table and talked, we would be suprised at the result?  All any of us want is to be treated fairly and in many of our cases nothing could be further from that. We have to believe in justice though, what ever it takes.