Goodbye to all......with a sad heart

Emerald,

There seems to be a general feeling of sympathy with your current plight and I would like to offer my sincere hope that you find the help you so obviously need.

A number of members have offered help and I feel sure that Maria will be able to point you in the right direction.

I can understand your frustration with the system but I feel sure that help must be available if we can find out where it is and how to access it.

I wish you luck with your quest and hope that you will find happiness in the future and that you may once again feel able to return.

Best wishes

Just a thought...

If you have a British Passport, irrespective if you are legally resident in Spain or not, and you have a child born in Spain, does that not entitle the child to dual nationality?

If so, then the British Consulate in Malaga should be able to help, seeing as they help drunken holiday makers back home who have lost their passport!

Dear all

Thanks for all the help. Maria,I will email you now with some details,thank you so much for offering to help!

The consulate say they cannot do anything as you cant get an emergency passport without a Birth  Certificate,and even if I could get him back to the UK,he could not go to school or have a doctor without it! I had never heard of the  Defensor del Pueblo but will await Marias advice as to whether I should contacct them or not. I do not know what someone in my situation would do if they dont have family over here to help them, this situation needs to be changed as it is just insane!

Thanks again everyone!

Vicci x

Hi  , there are legal aid lawyers in Spain but how you can find out I'm sorry but don't know. You need to ask for 'asesoramiento juridíco para los pobres'.

I am at a loss to understand how you cannot get a birth certificate in 14 months but not surprised by the unhelpful British Consulate. They are here on a jolly and to rip-off their people with high fees.

I recall a problem a few years back renewing a Spanish passport for one of my children and some document or other being required and getting the run around in some civil registry office in Fuengirola so I got the document required in Madrid and then renewed passport in Fuengirola.  Madrid deals with matters efficiently. Fortunately my children have a choice of any of 3 passports so I had a fall back plan.

The problem is my records are a bit of a mess and in the past and I have had multiple libro de familias which I think they said I should not have had (not my fault they gave them to me!) and they might now have merged them. I have also had to agree (for an easy life!) to sign Spanish documents at the Spanish Consulate in London (nice people actually) using an incorrect date of birth to match an error made many years ago by the Spanish - that way everything works perfectly (the Spanish way). This was when I discovered how the authorities had tracked me for over 20 years passing files from one office to the next and now I must accept their mistake as to my date of birth or else back track the mistake and have every office correct their records and then they will accept my correct date of birth on oficial forms. They made the mistake but now it's my problem - but do I care! The point of all this is Spain is a very procedural environment and there is no way to simply correct an error made becuase the system can never be wrong!

Sorry I rant again but if possible take the matter to the big cities and maybe there you will have better luck.

Also best of luck back in the UK.

Vicci,

Sorry this really isnt going to be much help but...

I would suggest that if the British Consulate reps, (T-shirts, Jeans,  Trainer and fluorescent flak jackets emblazoned with a Union Jack and wandering around aimlessly)  that were present at Malaga Airport during the Volcanic Ash fiasco are anything to go by, I'm not surprised that you don't get a lot of help from them.

However lets be realistic; unfortunately the baby was born in Spain and irrespective of his parents nationality, he is, first and foremost Spanish.

The UK Foreign Office has its Embassy in Madrid and its own website. This link will take you to the page concerning Births in Spain.

Looking at it, it would appear that the UK Consulate is taking one particular paragraph from that page and following it to the letter.

quote...Registration with the Spanish authorities is mandatory

The birth may be registered at the Civil Register Office nearest to the place of birth or residence, by one of the child's parents. This should be done in the first 8 days following the child's birth. However, this period can be extended to 30 calendar days if there is a justified reason for the delay. If you miss this time limit with the Spanish authorities, you may have problems getting the birth registered. You also may have to start an administration procedure with the Spanish authorities which will be long and expensive. This can affect your child's access to state health, nursery or school... unquote

As has been stated elsewhere in this thread the Embassy / Consulate out here are always ready to extract cash from ex pat or holidaymaking Brits but when you get right down to it, they are no more capable of dealing with Spanish Beaurocracy than the average man / woman in the street and for the most part a posting out here is all a jolly holiday for UK Civil Servants.

Without knowing the full details, your problem appears to lay with the local Registry Office but could you have fallen foul of the reporting time referred to in the above highlighted paragraph?

If the Brit Embassy/Consulate was worth its presence here they would at least provide some guidance on how to start the 'administrative procedure' they refer to in the highlighted passage. But No...

Vicci, I wish I could help but frankly I wouldnt know where to begin.

 Dear All,

Cripes,

great posts, thanks to all for their contributions to the knowledge base, EOS should archive it.

Here I was recently told to "get real" and accept the "state of play" in the planning department and that from a JP Councillor.

I abhor corruption in all its forms but perhaps where children and actual suffering are involved.............................

So what is the price???????????????

Regards

Norman

As much as I give out about  Spanish staff/offices I have always found staff at Spanish Consulates to be quite helpful and not like the British Consulate in Malaga and I think they do a better job of looking after their people overseas.

The Britich Consulate told me to get lost when I wanted some forms procesesed and I was born in their country and pay taxes there and have spent half my life living there.

Have you tried seeing if a Spanish magistrate can help you. Helped me change one of my childrens name on all official documentation.

Hi all

No further news so far, I will be going back to the Civil Registry this Friday,I go there every week!

Maria, thank you for your messege,do you mean there is nothing you can do for us? In which case,would you advise me to contact the Defensor del Pueblo?

Faro,do you think It would be a good idea to contact the Spanish Consulate when I get back to the UK or not?

Foxbat, I am sorry I didnt make myself clearer, I had told the story in a former post but couldnt find that post when I came back! Yes,we were 3 days late. The hospital told us we had 6 weeks and because my mother in law came to visit we didnt go until the baby was 4 weeks 3 days! I am more than aware it is my own fault for not checking with my local Civil Registry but surely no one should be left in this position! That is why the women at the Registry seem to be enjoying themselves by making me wait, they just keep shrugging and telling me I shouldnt have been late, even when I tell them I am homeless,with no money and 2 babies!

I have held my hands up from the beggining,with everyone I have dealt with and said it is my own fault for being late but after 14 months of worry and being nice to those that are constantly rude to me I am sure I do not deserve having to leave my Son in a different country while those in the position to help sit back and watch.

Vicci Hi;

It was never my intention to be offensive and I hope that you didn't read my response as being so.

I couldn't find the thread that you refer to either and posted the link in the hope that anyone in a similar position ie with a new born, would not be similarly affected in the future.

If my repsonse has caused you any further grief I apologise.

It is indeed a pathetic situation and no-one should be put in the position that you find yourself in , unable to get any viable support from anywhere. I can see no reason for them not proceeding with the application other than sheer bloodymindness.

It will take more than fingers crossed to sort out the mess I know nevertheless my fingers are crossed..

Maybe a chat with the Spanish Consulate back home might indeed help as well as your local MP and Euro MP...maybe you weren't around to vote for them but they are in a better position to make waves.

Again apologies if I've made you feel worse than before....

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Consulates - a strange bunch no matter what country they belong to but I think it depends if they regard you or your children as Spanish as to how much they will help you.

But maybe the magistrate in Spain could help. I think they are part of the Juzgado - maybe a judge? . All I had to do was get 2 Spanish nationals to attend and swear my son never used the name given to him by the Spanish (Franco) government and hence he had every right to have all his Spanish documentation re-issued bearing the name he had used up to that point in time and it was all sorted out quite quickly. Also it didn't cost anything either.

But that said there appears to be a lot of politics in Spanish offices and one person will not over rule another. These funcionarios drive me mad at the best of times.

It sometimes helps to get a Spanish national to go in all nice and friendly and see if your file could rise to the top. But you have to catch the person at the right time of the day - probably when they are returning from their mid-morning breakfast - they're usually quite happy then.

It's disgraceful that as a foreign person you are treated so badly. After all we are not familiar with their procedures. It can take weeks sometimes just to find an office and get the opening times right and all the forms and instructions are in Spanish. If it was in the UK you would probably have a discrimination case. I bet you no punjabi or bengali or other foreign person gets treated this way in the UK.

Keep us posted and if no luck this week then we'll have to rally some support and find someone who can help.

Consulates - a strange bunch no matter what country they belong to but I think it depends if they regard you or your children as Spanish as to how much they will help you.

But maybe the magistrate in Spain could help. I think they are part of the Juzgado - maybe a judge? . All I had to do was get 2 Spanish nationals to attend and swear my son never used the name given to him by the Spanish (Franco) government and hence he had every right to have all his Spanish documentation re-issued bearing the name he had used up to that point in time and it was all sorted out quite quickly. Also it didn't cost anything either.

But that said there appears to be a lot of politics in Spanish offices and one person will not over rule another. These funcionarios drive me mad at the best of times.

It sometimes helps to get a Spanish national to go in all nice and friendly and see if your file could rise to the top. But you have to catch the person at the right time of the day - probably when they are returning from their mid-morning breakfast - they're usually quite happy then.

It's disgraceful that as a foreign person you are treated so badly. After all we are not familiar with their procedures. It can take weeks sometimes just to find an office and get the opening times right and all the forms and instructions are in Spanish. If it was in the UK you would probably have a discrimination case. I bet you no punjabi or bengali or other foreign person gets treated this way in the UK.

Keep us posted and if no luck this week then we'll have to rally some support and find someone who can help.

FOXBAT....I never thought you were being rude and I am so sorry if my post came across that way. Sometimes things said in text are hard to read I guess!

Faro,I have had my Spanish friend Rosa go with me almost everytime I have gone to see them and it has made no difference what so ever! She has been nice, shouted, reasoned......all to no avail! She is from Madrid and constantly says sorry to me for how her fellow countrymen have treated us!

I will go again on Friday, I figure if I go there every week maybe they will get sick of seeing me!!! Will let you know what is said, the last 2 weeks they have said my file is in fiscal AGAIN and is being looked at!

Thanks again guys and no offence meant or taken x

Vicci...Ok and thanks!

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Hi Vikki, I sympathise & wish you well. It's such a mess! I can't imagine your stress.

Hi Maria

Think my message to you must have gotten lost between everything else being said so here it is again!

Maria, thank you for your messege,do you mean there is nothing you can do for us? In which case,would you advise me to contact the Defensor del Pueblo?

Thank you for you help

Vicci

I posted this in the good news thread but it's, as ever, out of hand in there AGAIN  so copying it here which is where I should really have posted it in the first place but Sue, myself & Vicci were talking in the good news thread.

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Vicci .... Sue (Suemac) could be very instrumental in getting your story published, she has contacts as she writes in papers & mags if I understand correctly.

Did someone mention starting a facebook page earlier .. maybe that was about building licences on a justice thread .. memory is failing. So start a FB wall just for this.

If we put our collective heads together more will be aware of your situation.

Are you, for instance, on other forums where this is known? It doesn't have to be in your area. As this happened to you it can happen to others.

I am not on any other forums, do you think I should join them? It would seem a little cheeky to me now to just join and ask for help when I have offered nothing in return! A FB group is a good idea too! Thanks guys for even taking the time to come up with ways to help.

I am HUGELY grateful

Vicci

Hi Vicci, you need to do what it takes, so yes, I think you should post on every forum you can find to highlight what you are going through & how you are desperate for help. Justin doesn't want us mentioning other forums so it's difficult so I guess I should send you a PM.  I have knowledge of my LOCAL forums & maybe you'd gleam some advice from them.TRY HERE it's a big one in my area.

Hi Vicci.

Have sent you a pm.