Phase 4

My lawyers say they have been told the property will be completed in November 2008. It certainly didn't look that way when I was out there recently. Anyone else in phase 4 been told this? Ann

We have an appartment in Phase 4, but have not had any correspondence from our solicitor for over a year. The last contact we had was a letter from the agent (ADH) informing us that the appartment may not be ready until March 2009 (although they did say it could be earlier)

What you have been told seems to be totally at odds with what Calvin was told by the Promaga site rep (Christian) recently, ie. "Phase 1 should be ready for people to move into Dec 2008, Phase 2 jun – july 2009 Phase 3 feb – march 2009 & Phase 4 Oct –Dec 2009 "

Are you sure that your Lawyer wasn't mistaken with Phase 1 being released ?  May be worth checking

Regards

Hi J.J. all

Replying to the last posting about completion of phases 2 and 4

What I was told in July when on site by Christian who is the official promaga sales rep.

Phase 1 should be ready for people to move into Dec 2008, Phase 2 jun – July 2009 Phase 3 feb – march 2009 & Phase 4 Oct –Dec 2009 "

(Should be ready) if things have moved on then all well and good for them who want to move in now.

But it did not look that way at the end of July.

My personal thoughts on this matter is that maybe promaga are frightened of missing their completion dates. Which will give buyers the opportunity of pulling out of buying getting there deposits back from the banks

They are probably pulling all the stops out to complete these phases to stop this happening & getting buyers moved in before these phases are finished completely.

(Again in my opinion) prices are not moving maybe they are worth less than what we paid two years ago due to the state of the market.

And at the moment it is a buyers market out there.

Regards Calvin

It will be interesting to see if people are preparred to complete without a Licence of First Occupation. If the phases are not fully complete, they shoudn't get the licence issued. Whilst it doesn't stop you completing, it's not a recommended approach.

Seems Promaga sent my lawyers the wrong info - though I'm not impressed by the lawyers. Phase 4 is still at least a year away.

 

Hi Ann  JJ and all

It would be interesting for me to know what your lawyers said exactly.

Over the weekend I made some enquires myself letting the powers that be that I have had no contact from adh since April and its been over a year from my lawyers. Got email back from my lawyers that phase 4 is still now expected on time.

 I am very doubtful that this is not the case.

Email received Monday from my lawyer.

The last information that we have had from the developers is the building works progress as per schedule and they expect to deliver the property by the first quater of 2009.

According to the purchase contract, the delivery date was November 2008 + three months of grace period (this is very normal in the practice).

So, having this in mind, the developers would not be in breach of contract until March 2009.

Looking forward to your replies.

calvin

Hi Calvin

The lawyers were cagey - just 'not this year', but Christian has said October to December next year.

Ann

Hi Ann / Calvin,

Just been checking my records in more detail.

In july 2007 we got a formal letter from ADH suggesting that completion "may be delayed until March 2009". It was requested that we confirm (by letter) if we were happy with this revised date. We did this.

In June this year I got an update from ADH (following a request for info) saying that: "The last indication I have recived is that this may suffer a slight further delay until approx. June-July 2009 but this could continue to vary depending on the progress they can make this summer, now that the rainy season has finished."

Also in June this year I got an email from my lawyer (again after requesting info) saying that: "The Developer just told me that they hope to be in a position to complete around march 2009"

That's the last formal information I have had.

My original (2006) contract states completion by October 2008 with a grace period of 4 months..... amazing how they differ even with the same developer and agent. That gives a contractual limit of Feb 2009.

However, because I "accepted" the slip to March 2009, does that also give the developer another 4 months on top of that to complete (ie. until July 2009) ?. I would appreciate your views on this.

Irrespective of this, I suspect that Promaga are doing doing everything possible to get the Phase completed as quickly as possible in order to avoid reasons for people not completing.

Regards

John

 

Hi   JJ   Ann

All the information you have with your dates are similar to what I have had.  Give or take a month or two.

Not sure about that extension. Needs double checking and checking again with the lawyers.

But my lawyer did not mention about the extension of the completion time and it seemed that promaga would be out of contract of the build of phase 4 in march 09

I can not see how a letter sent out by adh asking for an approval of a completion would be legally binding in law.  But you never know with this lot.

See full email from my solicitor or lawyer what ever they are call.

My purchase now must have already had 4 or 5 different lawyers from same company dealing with this purchase because they are no longer with the firm.

 

Dear Mr xxxxxxxx

Firstly let me introduce me: my name is xxxxxxxxx  and I will be dealing with your purchase at Vista Hermosa Phase 4, as xxxxxxx  works no longer for our firm.

The last information that we have had from the developers is the building works progress as per schedule and they expect to deliver the property by the first quater of 2009.

According to the purchase contract, the delivery date was November 2008 + three months of grace period (this is very normal in the practice).

So, having this in mind, the developers would not be in breach of contract until March 2009. If that date comes and the developers have not delivered the property, we could start thinking in executing for you the bank guarantee that covers the amounts that you have paid to date. Please note that as this is a different extra-service, if the case arises and you decide to cancel the contract and execute the bank guarantee, we would charge for it 600 Euros plus VAT.

Should you have any query, please do not hesitate to contact me,

Best regards,

Xxxxxxxx

If you two find out any more let me know  because I want to know all my options where we stand.

thanks

calvin

Hi Calvin

Will do. Having been there recently, I can't imagine Phase 4 could possibly be ready by March.

Ann

Hi AnnLN

How recently you visited the site? I have paid deposit on a Phase 4 apartment and am very interested in how the developement is going? A lot od Spanish developers are in trouble, some have gone bust. How are Promaga bearing up? Have they enough funds to complete in complete in time? I was told October-2008,  which has been confirmed by ADH delayed to March-2009. which legally puts them breach of contract on 31-January-2009. 

Please may have views or exact information on this from all who are concerned for their deposit?

Many Thanks
FHS 

I was there at the beginning of September. I was also there in Sept 07 and this year Phase 4 looked about as advanced as Phase 1 did last year. So I would guess Phase 4 is at least a year away. 

There were still workers on site but not as many as last year. The Promaga Office was not open as last year. You had to ring a bell and it was staffed by one not especially helpful woman who looked as if we'd woken her up. So everything is being scaled down.

That's about as much as I know. 

Ann

I suspect that Promaga are finding it hard at the moment, but as a well established developer, they probably have a little more capital in reserve than some of the smaller operators. However, this may change if people choose to or have to default on their contracts. Whilst Promaga may be able to retain all deposits paid to date (if they complete on time), they are still left with a large number of properties on their books that they have paid for but can't get the remaining (80%) money for. Obviously, this situation gets worse for them if they complete late, as more people will probably choose to formally cancel their contract and pursue a refund of their deposit.

Our contract says completion in October 2008 with 4 months grace. So, that's the end of October + 4 months = End Feb. So on that basis, you could say 1st March is the first day you could claim. However, not sure what value the letter from ADH had advising of a delay to March 2009. 

Also, I'm assuming that completion means that the FOL for Phase 4 is also issued by that date as well ?

hi all 

Maybe this is a little glimer of hope.
with a little bit of time things may get better.

No Fall in House Prices in Marbella

House prices in Marbella and Estepona rose slightly this year compared with 2007. The figures show that in Marbella prices went up by 1.65%, while in Estepona there was a slight increase of 0.24%. The trend, which bucks the national and provincial averages, is attributed to a lack of availability with no new building work starting due to the area’s development plan not being approved yet. 

calvvin

Thank you Ann and JJ

I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I have heard that getting back you deposit will undoubtly involve a case a litigation with the developer, which has to be brought by the buyers lawyer. Which can be lengthy and costly and even then the Courts give a lot of leaway to the developer. How does one try and run this litigation process without too much bother for all parties. Has anyone any thoughts or experince or actual knowledge of the process. The buyer is lawyer is often linked to the Agent (ADH) in my case who is pushing me to complete whatever happens and is persuading me to go for further mortgage. I am rather poor in health and would not be able to do that anyway. I was persuaded to do this transaction for the investment, ie sell/flip just before the completion, and make a tidy profit which would go towards my ideal property inland in Spain. I suppose I am now trapped like many hundereds who put deposit on these apartments and cannot sell. 

Since the propert values have nose dived I don not know if these aprtments in Vista Hermosa have declined in value. My purchase was for E268,000 with 20% deposit. Promaga is still listing these from E200,000 onwards or so. Why has Promaga not reduced or offered these same properties to the depositors for less? We are after all their better prospect to complete, if they would reduce these apartments to the latest market value.

FHS 

Just wondering......... If we get into a situation where Promaga don't complete on schedule, it may be sensible for several of us to get together and jointly employ a good, independent Lawyer to fight our cases.

Only a thought at tis stage, but if we unite, we may have more luck, and it may be more cost effective

Any views ?

That's certainly something to consider - though finding a 'good' lawyer may be a problem. Mine are British based but are a waste of space in my view. I ended up doing lots of the negotiation direct with Promaga.

Ann

Hi All,

Did anyone else get a newsletter from Lawyers of Spain yesterday.  This appeared to contain a thinly disguised warning not to terminate your contract, and went to great lengths to explain that whatever happens it's almost impossible to get your money back.

Hi JJ

Yes indeed I received a newsletter too. Lawyers of Spain are linked with Lawbird Legal Services - Litigation specialist. Read the 10 points. Yes you are right it scare one to even try and sue the developer. YET in the same breath Lawbird sound they are the one that can help you to get your deposit back - at a fee! Yes I would be interested in forming an aliance with any others who would like to go down that route - infact Oct-2008 is here now and still I have not heard anything from ADH or my lawyer.! I was told 3months garce which takes us to the end of 2008! So legally speaking I could ask for my deposit back on 1st Jan-2009!

FHS

 

Hi JJ and All

Sorry but I do not get this.  Do I have bank guarantees or not. Surely if promaga are out of time with the build we can get our deposits backs in March. And what is this about rainy days. Do promaga get an extension by the judge for some form of act of god? And do they have a grace period of 3 months or 6 to complete.

If we can not get our monies back then ADH have miss sold and surely they are liable as well.

Do the lawyers work for us or are they in allegiants with promaga and ADH surely they should be putting our interests first, they have been paid.

Are lawyers of Spain trying to frighten us, by warning what is going to happen in March with this news letter?  I think this is bullying tactics.

Forget about the economic situation, the more I go into this it looks like we have all been stitched up.

Not  happy

Calvin