Phase 4

Thanks Antonio,

A good post.

How long will the completion licence and licence of first occupancy take realistically? as you say all this has the clock ticking in our favour.

Hello pjevans,

I would think that within 30-45 days this could be achieved.

Thanks for the post Antonio, very informative and useful.

My comment on the delayed development was related to the posting attached below:

Thursday, October 23, 2008 MA08 Parcela I've made 1 posts Send private message to MA08

If you thought you had problems with Vista Hermosa - we have been waiting for over 4.5 years for our apartment - and they still have not built anything! Can anyone help me with the following: 1. Is there any way for us to check the financial situation of Promaga? 2. Should they file for bankrupty - do you know if they have any insurance on the monies that we have given them for properties that have yet to be built? 3. Does Spain have an government office that looks after Consummer complaints? The people at the Promaga office constantly deceitful when it comes to any information regarding the development, my fear is that given the current economic situation the apartments might never get built! They have offered us an apartment at a discount at Vista Hermosa - but with all the problems I am reading about I am not even sure all those will be completed... Is there anybody else out there with a property at this location?

Many individuals find themselves in the stressfull situation of wanting/needing to exit from a delayed contract but unsure of the route to proceed. I accept that with the appropriate advice, they should get an initial Court hearing within 12 months. However, without the correct advice (as it appears in this case) the individual may be left in limbo for several years.

Regards

We have today received a burofax from the bank (Banesto, not BBVA as my previous post, my apologies) requesting that we fulfill a number of procedures in order for them to assess the viability of the cancelation process. These procedures are customary and the purpose of them is for the bank to establish whether there is a valid reason, and therefore legal grounds, for the bank to refund in detriment of the developer. We need to always keep in mind that bank guarantees will not always be honoroured by banks in particular if they fear that the developer could sue them.

Hi Antonio

What are these number of procedures that you have to fulfill? Surely each contract - a legal document, which both buyer and sellor has to adher to and any contradiction or changes have to be added again as a part of the contract. It is quite clear in any court of law that new expected completion date of by 31st March 2009 has not been added to the new contracts for many of us - hence it is a breach of contract and failure by the developer to deliver on time - October-2008 - which was 6 months ago! Surely any lawyer, judge or even a layman can see that! We are after all in the European Community not in an Eastern country where legal in not quite legal! We should exept legally drawn documents like this contract to be obeyed by all parties!

Again it comes to the bankers - "that bank guarantees will not always be honoroured by banks in particular if they fear that the developer could sue them". I am not surprised. How can we trust banks? The banks have NOT done a good job of running the economies of the western world. How can we trust them that they will do the correct and honourable thing here! Surely you as a man of Law - you pratice it, I hope you have spelt it out them (Bank) that they breaking the law!

Think NOT banks are there to server you! 

Hi All,     

My name is Richard Horsfall and I've only just found this forum by chance. I've found the comments on the delays etc. very interesting, a lot of them echoing how I feel.

I have reserved an apartment in Block 3, (phase 4), which as you know was due for completion in October 2008. As the period of grace expired at the end of January 2009, I have asked Lawyers of Spain to get my contract cancelled and retrieve my deposit and they seem to be taking this onboard. However, some of the comment regarding the relationship between LoS, ADH and Promaga has me a little concerned.

Incidentally, I have also had a call from Promaga last week, offering me the builder’s mortgage at a very favourable rate. When I asked what the rate was the lady didn't really know, but I think she guessed it at about 2.8%. I was also told that the apartment was finished.

I  have decided go and have a look for myself next month and I will post my findings all to see. Perhaps with photos if I can see how to upload them.

Richard.

Hello

I am also victim of Phase 4

I have been in Spain for sometime now trying to get a handle on whats what and I am still none the wiser - there is alot of misinformation being bandied about

What I do belive to be true though is that Promaga have no intention of honouring their contracts and the banks are very much in Manuel Gavira´s back pocket or the other way around but either way its not good news for buyers

I have had several meetings with various litigation lawyers and once Promaga get their first certification licence (being told its a month away but i was down on the site last week and it is a building site) Promaga are trying at all costs to complete the certification as once they have that we are screwed fullstop. It is my understanding also that sitting on your behind waiting for LOS to execute the bank guarantee is also a waste of time as Baneosto have just now requested additional information and they will surely stall that process until such time as the certification is through = were screwed

My understanding is that anybody looking to cancel the contract and get whats legally due as per indiviudal contract you HAVE to go to a litigation lawyer (c5000 euro) and get him mto cancel the contract in court. It will probably take a year to get to court and honestly from waht I have seen of the judicial system here in Spain there are no guarantees that you would win. My lawyer said its about 75% which sounds optimistic but...they want to take on the case V Promaga as Manuel Gavira is a very wealth man in terms of assets, land etc

If you are looking to cancel the contract you have no more than 3-4 weeks to get to a litigation lawyer and do just that otherwise you´re up against it

I am in favour of everybody coming together and forming one joint action against Promaga. It is up to the judge if he/she will allow that but if there are 20 or 30 people looking to get their money back we have a hell of a better chance than each of us trying to fight a massively corrupt company. As I said there are no gurantees but the time for action is now - there is no point in wallowing in self pity and waiting we need to come together and fight as one

I am well up for this fight - anybody care to join?

LMD  

Dear LMD,

It is certainly a difficult situation for buyers in the developement and we are equally in favour of litigation, if in the next couple of weeks the developer does not come up with the license of habitation, which is extremely unlikely as they have, as far as we know, not applied for it.

We must not forget that LOS forced Gavira to give us the BGs and in fact we withheld from signing contracts until they were all delivered. I do have to admit that only one client in Jardines del Mar did not receive the BG and LOS is accountable for that but as for the rest every client hold one.

We are now in the process of cancelling these BG with Banesto, as you well point out, and have already served notice. They are indeed stalling but that does not mean that your position is worst, it was predictable.

FInally I will say that when we signed the contracts with Promaga I will told in no uncertain terms that they would not give a BG because this was a document which used to be given out in Franco´s time and that he was a man behind a company and was therefore not applicable to him. LOS did the right thing by holding him to ransom and we have now valid contracts, valid BG and will, on instructions of client, take this matter wherever it needs to go (Court if required) to protect the interest of out clients.

Dear A Flores

If litigation is the correct move are you in favour of taking action against Promaga or Banesto who hold the BG - where does the greater chance of success lie & who is culpable - both parties are culpable according to the contracts which LOS presided over?

Regards

LMD

Hello LMD,

The developer and the bank would be jointly liable for repayment of the deposit, for which reason they would be both the object of the claim. The chances of sucess lie irrespective of the recipients of the claim but it easier to execute a BG where you can actually place an embargo on a Banesto bank account!

I would also like to remind many posters that a few years ago it was developers who were attempting to cancel contracts prior to completion due to the fact that during the construction process the properties were growing at very high rate and lawyers were protecting consumers against cancellation attempts from developers.

This should all put us in perspective as Promaga´s lawyers are not stupid and they will fight with every single legal argument they may have, and we have to be prepared for that. As I say, YES to litigation but CAUTION with how the action is put forward as it is not cheap to lose a case worth a combined value of 350.000 Euros (circa 22.000 Euros).

And one more tip: run away from anyone who writes ´you have a strong case´!

Hi all,

Do we have any news on completion dates for Phase 2 or has anyone from phase 2 been in contact with the bank to see what type of mortgages are available?

Can someone advise me on the difference between cancelling a contract and implementing the Bank Guarentee, or are they both the same?

I have had an e mail form LOS giving me a tarrif of costs if they are successfull, is this right?

Anyone interested in getting tickets for the Barca Chelsea game please let me know.

Good tickets at around Eur 350.00- 400.00 each

Hi all

I went to check out the complex on the weekend and noted the following:

- all building work seems to be quite close to completion (the structures appear to be fully built

- the road around each of the buildings appears to be complete and road marks painted already

- numerous people are already living in the complex towards the front

- there appears to be some sort of entrance/exit gate structure being built.

Following on from that, I have been informed that some of the blocks on phase 4 have been completed to the extent that a) they are sending out letters with the finals works certificate and b) they are requesting people to come for snagging and c) they will be requesting people to start with mortgage enquiries.

Has anyone received any similar information?

have just heard the lawyers have only just sent the requested info to the banks. apparently the banks requested this info at least 2 weeks. I would suggest there is not a lot of urgency in efforts to reclaim our deposits before the licience cut offs. have just read the last reply saying the developers have started applying for the licences. have been told the banks could easily drag processing this info for a month. the licences could be granted in 3 weeks............

Do the maths

would be interested on hearing your views

hi Ginge

in response to your blog :

have just heard the lawyers have only just sent the requested info to the banks. apparently the banks requested this info at least 2 weeks.

Where did you get this info from as A. Flores has already said he had cancelled all the contracts and had informed the bank?

Would this be the additional information that the banks requested?

A. Flores has been out of the office for last 2 weeks, as I have been trying  to contact him, so we don't know if he did send this additional info or not yet..........how do you know?

Thanks Calvin

re my last blog

meant to put up to 2 weeks ago not at least 2 weeks ago and the info requested was new info

sorry everybody!

All

As I said, I went to check out the site once again this week and uploaded photos of the development.

There are 6 and they are pictures of the following:

1. View of the development as you come off "exit 3" entrance to Santa Margarita off "El higueron"

2. Photo of what I believe is block 7 (phase 2) (this may be the block where there was the issue with the support).

3. Photos of block 5 and 6 (phase 4 - towards the distance) and the nearest is block 7 (phase 2).

4. Photo of block 1 (phase 4)

5. Photo of back of block 1 and 2 (phase 4)

6. Side view of the development.

Hi

Does anybody has any news on LFO - Lincence of first Occupation for this phase?

Thanks

Hi Guys,

It's all gone quiet. Is there any news on the completion and or the LOFO yet. Promaga tried contacting us but we haven'e spoken to them yet.

LOS say there is a letter being produced but this was some weeks ago, can anybody shed some light on any of the procededing please?

Regards