Water /electric charges

Hi all if you go on the general forum and than go onto the "new introduce yourself " thread then Blackmailed buy builder  there are some interesting posts regarding charges being made for builders supplies of utilities . Well worth a look or perhaps a PM to  the inspectahome  chap  to explain situation at El Pinet . He has helped and advised others in same situation much to there advantage by all accounts  . JA


This message was last edited by julie anne on 10/3/2008.

Hi all I have had a reply from inspectahome not sure he would want me to post it here I will ask him .however if any one wants me to PM it to them I will just will . SJ are once again acting illegally in asking for money for utilities the fact they are in administration makes no difference because they are still trading they are still liable. JA

Reply from Inspectahome
 

First of all no the fact that the developer is in administration does not change the situation at all as it remains ilegal to charge and again it is the builder and administor trying it on, remeber their business is to work for the builde, not the client

Also the key point here is that San Jose are still trading and therefore still bound by Spanish Law and it is ilegal alwo to cut off your builders supply, you can call the Police and have the site manager or senior officers arrested

It remains ilegal to charge for builders supply and San Jose will have already paid for services back to 2005

They have to, prior to levying any charge, that this is fair and reasonable and in your case there will be central meters and accounts that will have recorded the total consumption over that period 

If you have a community formed your community administrator should help you, that´s why  you pay his fees but you really need good local legal support not just over this but also to get the Certificate of Habitation 

A good lawyer is PSI in Playa Flamenca who is having a free advuce day this Saturday at theor offices so, if there is somebody in Spain, it would be worth somebody dropping in but I know that you can also call them and they are dealing with lots of San Jose clients

I also operate the www.thesnaggingforum.com so you should register there

San Jose still have lots of property unsold so they wan t to avoid bad publicity so also think about contacting the local papers but speak to the lawyers first

Please kepp me updated on developments

Article Costa Blanca News 


 

Homeowners told to pay up or be cut off

By Dave Jones
RESIDENTS living at troubled El Pinet urbanisation in La Marina de Elche are up in arms after they were asked to pay 120 euros per month for builder’s supply of electricity and water.

The demand has come from administrators running Orihuela-based construction company San José Inversiones which went into voluntary suspension of payments in May.

Building work at the urbanisation was halted in 2004 following a complaint that homes were being built inside the protection perimeter of Santa Pola natural park.

Judges ruled in favour of the builders in April this year and Elche town hall gave the green light for construction to go ahead at the site in August.

However the cash-strapped builder has so far not been able to finance the completion of homes and infrastructure at the site.

Residents have now complained that they are being asked to cough up a vastly inflated price for their electricity and water supply – or face being cut off.

A residents’ spokesman told CBNews that administrators explained there was no money to pay the utility bills.

He said: “Most of the people here are not against paying what we owe but if everyone pays 120 euros a month this comes to 35,000 euros.
“Whose leg are they trying to pull?

“It is obscene to ask us to pay this much and they can’t expect us to do so.

“We want to pay for what we use and want them to put meters in for each household.”

However in a meeting with residents last week administrators indicated that the 120-euro fee might not be fair for some residents and that they were prepared to negotiate.

The residents’ spokesman said: “We informed them that we would pay only 60 euros per month from September onwards, establishing some differences depending on the type of house.

“We also asked San José to provide the bills corresponding to September, October and November 2007 since we understand that the expenditure during those months is reduced in a considerable way and it is necessary for us to know it.”

Residents have also stated that it in their opinion it is not legal to charge them for builder’s supply.

However a spokesman for Elche town hall said that as the houses do not have habitation certificates the properties should not be inhabited.
“The legality of this situation depends on the contract that the purchasers have with the builders,” she added.

“If it is in their contract that they pay for the electricity and water then they can charge them for it.”

A total of 293 houses on unfinished El Pinet urbanisation are occupied – many by British and Irish expats.

djones@cbnews.es

Hello

If it is illegal to ask for the money or cut off the supply then i do not quite understand  why  the  administrators  would  break  the  law  when  they  have  been  appointed  by  a  judge  and  why  would  a  judge  appoint  people  who  do  not  keep  within  the  law.   Does  this  mean  the  judge  is  corrupt  too  or  does  he  need  to  throw  the book  at  the  people  he  appointed  and  appoint  someone  else!  Surely  the  administrators  are  accountable  to  the  judge  as  he  appointed  them. 

FAR

Not sure what all of this means  just thought I would share the info  I hope they are not but nothing will surprise me anymore they all seem to be a law unto themselves it is quite sickening .I have no faith in the system anymore.


This message was last edited by julie anne on 10/4/2008.

Just recieved an email from some one on El Pinet seems like the residents have decided to pay but have covered a few legal angles by clearly stating what the payment is for etc to safe guard should anything go wrong. Seems the payment amount has also been reduced .

Hi 
I have two propertys on el pinet and recieved no letters for elec/water ,please can anyone tell me if i need to pay and where it is to be paid to

thanks jaybe

Something you should have:

Meeting of 24th with:

 San José Inversiones y Proyectos Urbanísticos S.A. and the Administrators.

 

As you know San Jose have Financial problems and are unable to pay their suppliers and they have asked the owner to pay 120. - Euros per month for water and electricity.

 

At the end of the meeting we agreed that we would ask owners to pay 60. - Euros per month for September to December. This have not to be paid immediately; we will let you know next week when, how and to whom. This amount is based on San Jose expenses divided by 293 registered properties. 

 

San Jose with the Administrators have plans to implement a timetable for the roads and the lighting which will enable us both, the houses and the apartments to obtain our habitation certification. This is hopped to be finished as soon after December this year as possible. At the very least they hope to have started the work.

If these plans are not implemented then we will have to go back to San Jose and the Administrators for more discussions as to the future.

 

We have seen bills from San Jose for August this Year, but as you know this is a busy month so San Jose have agreed to show as bills for three normal months. This will give everybody a better idea of the actual cost of the expenses that El Pinet has.

 

After December one possibility been investigated is the provision of water and electricity meter which will be a much more fair way for each  to pay only for what he uses; this will be especially important if this issue continues for a long time.

 

We would recommend that everybody pays this amount until December as failure to be united will not give the right impression to the Administration and the Court. We also think that to pay this amount will benefit everybody as we hope to have a better living environment and of course Habitation Certificates. This benefits Residents, people who are Renting Properties and to people who wish to Sell.

 

For all the people who had paid recently an amount, this will reduce the 120. - Euros required early in October. Also to clarify we agreed not to pay the expenses of August.

Regards:

Felix Dominguez

El Pinet

More:......


This is what they talked on the meeting:

Good Morning;

 

By the way, this is the letter that SAN JOSE is sending to all owners. This is a resume what we have discussed in the meeting last week. The most important for us is a calendar of dates that the Administrator is giving us more or less in 10 to 15 days to know how the completion of all services and developing is going to go.

 

We allready have recived some bills from San Jose that want to check from the expenses of the last year.

On this week we will let you know how to pay.

Thanks for your cooperation

 

 

Dear neighbour:

 

In our meeting of 18th September in the urbanisation El Pinet we decided to have a meeting with San Jose’s Court Administrators (the ones named by the judge) who are in charge of the supervision of San Jose´s activity at present. This meeting took place on the 24th and 7 people attended the meeting, both residents and non-residents, Spanish and English.

 

In this letter we want to inform you about what was dealt with at the meeting. This does not imply that we cannot have another meeting ourselves so that any neighbour can give his/her opinion.

 

Since it is San Jose who has all the details of all the owners we have asked them to send this letter to you.

 

Two issues were discussed:

 

1. Payment of 120 € per month since August

 

.-The Court Administrators confirmed that the builder do not have enough cash to pay for the water, the electricity and the drains. They do not have money to pay and, moreover, they could incur in a fault before the meeting of creditors. They have the duty of regulating the payments.

 

.- The suppliers have warned that they would cut the supplies.

 

.- The Court Administrators admit that the amount of 120 € per house could not be fair for some neighbours, and, consequently, they would accept any other possibilities we may think of.

 

.-We informed them that we would pay only 60 € per month from September onwards, establishing some differences depending on the type of house (rosita, azucena, apartment)

 

.-We also asked San Jose to provide the bills corresponding to September, October and November 2007 since we understand that the expenditure during those months is reduced in a considerable way and it is necessary for us to know it.

 

.- We are going to pay until December. Until then we will have to check the expenditure and, above all, what the situation of the "Habitation Certificates" is at that time.

 

2. Habitation Certificates (cédula de habitabilidad)

 

.- To know the Court Administration’s opinion about the situation of the applications for this certificate was as important for us as the matters above mentioned.

 

.-They are optimistic and they tell us that they will be able to tell us something about it in 15 days.

 

.-Once the Town Hall has authorised the project for the development, they now have to approve also the license for the works related to water, electricity, pavements, green areas…which, as you know, are at a very advanced stage. The question here is: Does San José have enough money to carry out these works? The Court Administration tell us that San Jose is going to be paid 3 million Euros next week, being the cost of the works only 400.000 €. The Court Administration think that, even if things were worse, there would be enough funds to do the works.

 

.-After that the Town Hall will be able to grant the Habitation Certificates.

 

.-Everybody thinks that this process can be finished before 2009.

 

CONCLUSION

 

1. We are going to deposit in the account San José provided in their previous letter 60 € every month until December. We do not have to pay for August. The Court Administration ensure that this money will only be used to pay for the water, electricity and drains.

 

2. We will try, when we have all details from San José, to establish some difference between the different types of houses. We know we should also distinguish between residents (50) and non-residents (243) but it is difficult to do it and the term until December is very short.

 

 

3. We are going to discuss with the suppliers about the possibility of installing counters to know the particular expenditure of each house.

 

4. We are going to try to have a meeting with both the provost of town development of the Town hall of Elche and the Court Administration, and we will follow all the necessary steps to get the Habitation Certificates (cédula).

 

 

5. We think it should be necessary to constitute a board of owners, if legally possible, in order to have a stronger representation and legal force in our claims. To do so we will try to find professional assessment.

This is what we have to do to get supplies:

 

GOOD MORNING;
 
I HAVE YESTERDAY A MEETIG WITH PACO AND WE HAVE BEEN INTO THE CONCLUSION THAT FROM NOW UNTIL DECEMBER WE ALL PAY 60.- EUROS INTO THE ACCOUNT YOU CAN SEE UNDER. THIS PAYMENT WIL BE PER MONTH AND PER HOUSE. NOW IN OCTOBER WE GOT THE COMPROMISE WITH THE ADMINISTRATORS TO PAY FOR SEPTEMBER AND OCTOBER; THAT MEANS 120.- EUROS. SO NEXT PAYMENT YOU WILL HAVE TO DO IT IN NOVEMBER. MY ADVISE IS NOT TO PAY ALL IN ONE PAYMENT. YOU KNOW WHY!. BUT DO IT AS YOU WANT.
 
THIS MONTH WE WILL TRY TO PAY BEFORE THE 10TH, AND NEXT MONTH (NOVEMBER) BETWEEN 1ST AND THE 5TH.
 
HOW TO PAY IT: TRUE THE BANK THAT YOU HAVE WITH THE IBAN AND SWIFT CODE, OR IN ANY CAM BANK.
 
HOW TO DO IT: YOU CAN DO 2 PAYMENTS; ONE FOR EACH MONTH OF 60.- EUROS, OR 1 FOR BOTH OF 120.- EUROS. BUT BE SURE YOU INTRODUCE THAT:
 
EXAMPLE: THIS PAYMENT IS FOR THE EXPENSES OF SERVICES IN EL PINET MR9 FASE_______    HOUSE Nº ________  NAME_________ SURNAME________ FOR THE MONTH/S OF SEPTEMBER. VIA TO THE ADMISNISTRATORS DESIGNED BUY THE COURT, TO MAKE THIS PAYMENTS.
 
WITH THIS IN FUTURE WE CAN PROVE WITH HAVE GOOD FAITH AND WE KNOW THO WHO AND FOR WHAT THE MONEY IS GOING TRUE.
WE HAVE CONFIDENCE IN ALL, AS YOU KNOW..... BUT JUST IN CASE.
 
 
 
BANK NAME                     CAJA DE AHORROS DEL MEDITERRANEO (CAM)
BANK ADDRESS             URB. SANTO DOMINGO, ORIHUELA, 03300, ALICANTE, ESPAÑA
ACCOUNT NUMBER       2090 7012 18 0040106618
SWIFT                           CAAMES2A
IBAN                        ES19 2090 7012 18 0040106618
 

JUST TO REMEMBER TO ALL, THAT IF WE WANT GO  A HEAD WITH EVERYTHING, WE NEED TO BE ALL TOGHETER!!! ITS VERY IMPORTANT.
 
ALSO TO LET YOU KNOW THAT I AM STILL TAKING NOTES ABOUT THE METERS, PACO IS CHECKING TO HAVE AN APPOINTMENT WITH THE ELECTRIC COMPANY AND THE WATER, AND I HAVE HAD A LOOK TO THE BILLS OF SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER, NOVEMBER LAST YEAR AND.... WELL CANT SAY NOTHING YET UNTIL I CLARIFY SOME DOUBTS I HAVE. BUT WE ARE GOING THERE.
 
PLEASE TO ALL OF YOU BE A LITLE BIT PACIENT UNTIL DECEMBER AND SEE HOW IT GOES, IT DEPENDS ALL BETWEEN THE AMINISTRATORS AND US.
 
REGARDS
 
FELIX  


So with all this; JULIE ANNE, i do not know anything about your faith, and i dont care, but you can help more the people givin them solutions instead of negative thinkings.

This people have gone a long way to got here were we are now.

 

Firstly a BIG thank you to Felix & Paco for their time and effort also others who are emailing the information out to us.

I would like to say, have SJ like another company that we knew and loved got loads of €500 notes in their office. Maybe its for some bubbly at the share holders meeting  

9 Palms 
I also think FSD has done a great job for those on El Pinet I don't think any one had any other choice as SJ have a gun to your heads  just like the  purchasers whos houses are not yet complete . I  hope it is not all invane . SJ have had 70 000e of my money for 4 + yrs and I don't feel like celebrating .SJ and the Admin are a bunch of crooks and the sooner you all realise the better .Despite FSD's good work in good faith for all

Hi Julie Anne,
The thing I was saying, was that the money that we gave SJ in €500 notes has not gone through the books or accountants so where has it gone. A bit like Telemicro is it in an SJ office somewhere for the SJ Navidad party. Although I understand that the foreman at EP has been laid off, unless someone has other info on that.
I have paid my €120 but if you look the account its a a CAM bank in an urbanisation and not the one in the town of Orihuela. Maybe that's the only one in that area?

9_P








This message was last edited by 9_Palms on 10/27/2008.

Does anyone know what the latest is with the electric meter?

Not Yet. Hope we continue until dec like this.

Has anyone heard or seen the minutes of the meeting regarding further charges? I think its about time, as it looks like this is going to drag on another summer (not 2 weeks), that they fit meters.

A charge for the maintenace of the pools and the area around them are fine.

Pay for what you use.

 

 

This message was last edited by 9_Palms on 3/3/2009.

 

 

Please refer to the Community website. I understand that minutes of the recent meeting will be posted soon. 

 

Hello Vagabond,

No there is still nothing! The meeting was last week, I am on a commitee and the clerk has the minutes out the next day.

It is now March and we are still now further ahead in getting our Habitation. How many 2 weeks does it take!

We are doing more for ourselves and SJ is taking money from us. I get the feeling they are going to take the money a go.

 

 

This message was last edited by 9_Palms on 3/4/2009.

Latest update is now on the PinetMR9.blogspot.

Here's a copy of the latest blog :-

The Rep of C.P Residencial El Pinet has been called into a meeting last 26th February and 3rd of March to take some decisions about the progress of the site.

We have been told on our last meeting with Administrators (19th February) that last week or during this week there will be signed a contract to continue with the roads and the site. Today the Vice-President has told us, there will be a meeting between Administrators and the workers this afternoon, to solve that contract. But we have not received any information of the result of this meeting.

On the Rep of C.P Residential El Pinet Meeting, there has been decided not to ask for any money to owners until we see the workers on site and some progress.
The site/ works done

To inform that there are every week some different people (Residents) en charged to control the water tanks and the distribution to all faces. Also turning Off some street lights (big one) to save expenses, even if we do not pay all of them.

There has also been repaired in M4 some valves at the tanks, because San Jose says there is nothing to do with him; so we decided as an emergency to fix it.

We also had to pay water tanks from December, because San Jose never appeared on site to switch on the valves for the main tanks, so all site run out of water for 6 days.

Mike and Paul have been checking and changing all lamps from the street lights who where not working, so know (all the apartment and houses) owners/guest can walk safety again. Thank you to help all people on site with no any interest (GRATIS).

We talked also to put some signs to avoid the entrance of Caravans, Dog necessities, Save electricity/Water...

There is a board on the main street (same street as show house, in between M 3 and M4) with all the information of what is happening on site, that will be updated with the blog. We also have en charged another 2 more boards to give as much information to all owners as possible. One will be placed at the apartment site and the other we will be in the area of M13 and M16.

Well done to all who are helping and working hard  in this dreadful situation.

I am waiting for one of the unfinished properties on El Pinet and I now fear the worst. I have lost a huge amount of money .Have SJ said anything  at all about their  future. It would appear their financial situation is worsening and they have been unable to secure the finance required to complete the infrastructure of the existing houses let alone complete the half built ones .

To add insult to injury many of us have now been told the Bank Guarentees SJ issued when they took our money /staged payments are useless and  the chance of our properties being completed is unlikely .I hope I am wrong but it would seem they are preparing for full bankrupcy. Lets hope they can find a solution or  the future for residents will be very difficuilt and for those waiting on properties it may be hopless .