EL PINET BLOG

Having read the El Pinet blog I sent an e-mail to the vice president with a number of questions that I needed answering before I throw anymore money at the site. That was two weeks ago and I am still waiting for the answers !!!

I have also been asked to pay 40euros a month as a non resident to cover the standing charge for water and electric, which the administators claim is the normal charges for these services. I think that this is excessive

A friend of mine who is in Gran Alicant pays 21euros standing charge for electric every 2 months,  He is coming back to me with the water charge.( lets assume until he does it is the same) That would mean the administators have either doubled the standing charges or are trying to charge me to cover the cost of what is being used on the site by the residents.

My community money of 20euros per month has already been used to pay a 9000euro water bill that has mostly been used by the residents. This community money should be used for the up-keep and maintenance of the site, not for the personal use of the people living there.

Am I the only person thinking this, let me know...................... OVER TO YOU 

HI patandlinda  , No you are not the only ones wondering about the logic, fairness and wisdom of all of this .Something here is just not right ,anyone who does the basic arithmetic can see things are way out .Not to mention the legal obligations that SJ are choosing  very conveniently to ignore .

I have been very reluctant to suggest this publicly  but SJ did have some of their "own people " living on site , how do we no who is on this committee and why .So far every decision seems to have been in favour of the SJ position and not that of  the residents and purchasers . I  really hope I am wrong but I do not put anything past SJ anymore ?????????

eg why is this money being paid directly to SJ they have failed to meet the payment twice now . Surely it would be better for the committee to pay this direct to the utility companies or keep in a separate account for emergencies   .

If  SJ go under which by all accounts seems very likely now all this money is lost .  I am sorry but something is a miss here and SJ appear to be  in a desperate situation and as usual don't give a sniff about residents, purchasers  or anyone  other than themselves
 

This message was last edited by MAGICMEG on 24/06/2009.

This message was last edited by MAGICMEG on 24/06/2009.

Hi Pat and Linda

We agree wholeheartedly with what you say.  We have sent emails and have had no reply.  The charge is excessive and the whole situation a disaster for everyone.  Communication is non-existent and saying to ask SJ is ridiculous.  If they go into liquidation as you say the money will be lost.  Why won't the Community Officers reply to emails especially as they invited comments in the last Minutes!

Hello JS, Magicmeg & PatandLinda,

I agree with the comments made, we should being paying direct to the water and electric suppliers. Or to the administrators NOT into an SJ account! SJ are in administration.

I get the impression that BO is being bullied into making decisions and the representatives for each area don’t get a full say or told the full story!

It is no wonder that JOST aren’t coming back, its either they have big differences with SJ and/or the administrators. It could be they are owed a (large) sum of money. What contractor would walk away from work in the present economic climate?

I would like to know if Felix is still running things, as he is not qualified to carry out the position he is filling. The meeting we attended, while we were last out, discussed getting a proper administer from the village. He would charge less and is qualified to fill the post. I think and stand corrected that its a legal requirement to have a qualified person. Has Felix got receipts for what he is claiming? We know what UK MP’s have been doing.

We all want El Pinet finished, but the way we are going and being led it will never happen. Well not while its not all one nationality!

Someone is going to get a bargain when we all have to sell up or give our places away.

It needs a showdown as we will always be waiting two weeks.

Hi everyone,

I agree with the comments made so far and having just returned from El Pinet where the water was turned off twice albeit briefly we then lost the water completely on the night prior to coming home and it wasn't back on in the morning when we left our apartment.

Quite a few owners had just arrived at their apartments, it was very hot and these problems are only going to get worse as demand increases and more people arrive. The apartments in M2 were without water and electricity for 9 days just prior to us going over so even if like us you have paid the requested sums of money you will not be guaranteed to have the services.

The monies we paid earlier (60 Euros per month - Sept - Dec) was an agreement whereby we should have been in a position to recieve our Habitation Certificates this month and we are no nearer now than we were then.

I think the Community Representatives have tried their best and done a good job in difficult circumstances but I feel that they are being undermined by San Jose and the Administrators and also under pressure from angry residents undergoing water shortages.

Some residents recently had a meeting with an official at Elche Council presumably to try and improve things, this official impressed upon them ( more than once apparently) that whilst the properties are legal, all those living there are doing so illegaly.

I agree with 9_Palms that some form of showdown is necessary otherwise there will be endless requests for money from non - resident owners who by and large are not benefitting from these payments and without these contributions the resident owners cannot meet the costs of water and electricity.

We hear nothing from San Jose or the Administrators about the actual Administration Process.

Information from the Blog is scant, it only becomes active when there is a request for more money and I think those who do contribute should have a say on how the money is spent ie using community fees to pay off utility bills.

I am sympathetic to the residents at El Pinet afterall they are my friends and neighbours but something needs to be done to bring the situation to a head.

We own a house in el Pinet  which we only use as a holiday home at the moment and feel definitely ripped off by SJ/ Administrators. Our Spanish neighbours say they are swindlers.

Elche council receive taxation from us each year, This year we have had to pay back tax for 2005 and 6 plus late fees!!!!!!!! and when we return in the summer, this year's.

How can they defend this when they will not give us the habitation certificate?

The cost for electricity and water appear to be extortionate, given the few permanent residents. There were no meter reading on the electricity bill we saw. SJ could be using us to pay for bills anywhere.

Community funds are being fraudulently used to pay for electricity and water rather than the agreed maintenance of the site.

We also believe this charge is extortionate.

Requests for expenditure from the committee have been impossible to obtain and the secrecy does no good only harm to everyone on el Pinet.

I do not have a solution but I believe SJ will go under and all money for utilities given to them will be lost and we will be no further forward.

May I first say that I really feel for everyone in M2. I think you are being used as ransom when the electric and water bills needs paying. It is wrong and possibility illegal to turn off these supplies! We had to move back to the UK, because of previous issues where we are in EP.

Other names and email address's can be found with this link, see below. Including Alejandro Perez Garcia (councillor for urban development, housing etc) who I think was mentioned in an article or blog.

http://www.elche.es/ilive/srv.ayuntamiento.gobierno_local

 

You can Google the names and get the sites in english

hi everyone,

                    my name is jennette i have a appartment in el pinet ,i agree with most of the coments i have tried to point  out to others that we need proper legal advice i feel we should have a comunity meeting, to see if every one agrees this.i have been to felix house and asked him about arranging this.he said put it forward for the 12 july possible discuss it at 25 july.how does everyone feel about this,or should we try and do it sooner,iwould like your coments please.

                                                                                                                regards  jennette

Hi Jennette,

I agree with your thoughts, the only way to address the administrators is  with a person who is aware of the  Spanish legal system, then maybe our "community fund would benefit the mass and not the few.

We must also keep in mind that a lot of people who bought at El Pinet had legal representation and look at the mess we are in now !!

I am not going to pay any more money to anyone, unless I get a legal guarantee that the water and electric will not be disrupted and that the community money is only used for the maintenance of the site.

A big thank you to the people that have replied to my posting although I thought that I would have got a lot more replies..............

However keep them coming..............there must be more people out there with an opinion

I know who some of the committee are and it worries me that anyone might think that they have their own agenda, or even that they are more interested in helping San Jose. Anyone who feels that they are not doing a good job should perhaps have made themselves available for the position in the first place. Without their help we would not even be in dialogue with SJ or the administrators, and therefore we would be without any water, electricity or for that matter our houses to live in.

I think that they have already done a lot of good work, that they have had to take a lot of unnecessary criticism and that theyu should be given all of our continued support. The charge of 40 euros or 70 Euros depending on your circumstances probably is excessive, but what choice do we have. Probably an easy choice if you are not living or holidaying there, but that easy choice is one which will seriously harm others who are living or holidaying there. I am not there just now and will probably not get over until August but I am definitely paying what is being asked. It may seem that we are being held to ransom, but if we fail to play the game then we will all be certain to lose.

I appease myself by focusing on the fact that I have not paid any fees for any water or electricity for the previous 3-4 years,  and therefore what has been saved in that period can be offset against the next few months. I think we should all stick together, allow the committee to fight on our behalf and at least give them until beyond the summer to see what happens.

I would hope that everyone would think of those who are there and how bad things could become for them if we do not stick together and pay up for the next 4-5 months. 

Hi everyone

Like many of you we will reluctantly pay the money, but feel that 40 euros a month is excessive for about 6 weeks use a year. We are concerned the money is being paid into a SJ account, surely it should be paid via the administrator or direct to the utility companies.

We are grateful to the committee for their efforts but agree legal representation is required to move this forward - we cannot keep throwing money at it in the hope it gets sorted.

Lets keep the dialogue going and share any news.

I have been reading the messges with interest as I have a holiday home at El Pinet.    I was about to post my views when up popped the message from "psbhoy" and they said exactly what I was going to say.    I have always been extremely grateful to the committee for all they're doing and have paid everything that's been requested.   I feel we're "hanging on by our fingertips" to keep the water and electricity supplies going and I'm prepared to take a chance on our money being used for that intended purpose, or at least used as the committee/administrators deem necessary.   It probably is more than most of us will be paying when we eventually get our own meters but some of it is to cover bills in arrears.   I agree with previous comments that It does feel as if we are being held to ransom by the administrators and I feel as frustrated and angered as everyone else about the lack of information and the broken promises, but the last thing I want, particularly for the people living there, is for the supplies to be cut to the site (I gather it takes months to get them reinstated) and that is why I feel we should pay what we're being asked to at this time.   As for getting "legal advice", I'm no longer sure what that term means in Spain.    If it's "illegal" to occupy properties without the habitation certificate, why did all our solicitors not tell us this when we completed on our properties?   Maybe some people were told and took a chance on it, but I doubt if this is the case.  It certainly wasn't mentioned to me when I handed over my money and the fact that this large legal firm insisted on cash, perhaps rather speaks for itself.

Hi psbhoy,

I was at El Pinet during May of this year and discovered that there were residents who were non payers of the community fees who freely use the water and electric.

Yet my money which has been paid into the community chest has been used to pay for their water (who is the mug) not any more.

I will willingly pay for what I use, but why should I pay for other peoples usage.

Last year we were asked to pay 60e per month up to December with the promise of the Certificates of Habitaion by May/June of this year.  Now I am being asked to pay 40e per month with the promise of the C of H by December . I do not belive them

The Administrators claim that we should pay the 40e per month as this is the standing charge for water in Spain,  Well they only get one bill with one standing charge of 40 EUROS, so why do they want this figure from each of us?

Finally I have supported the community committee through out  yet I sent the vise president an email 3 weeks ago and have had no reply  - WHY?

Hi all,

I agree with your comments about asking for information. As the title of this thread says El Pinet Blog. We ask for this to be posted and when they do its either cut shorter than than the spanish version on when it does appear its in broken english. I have spoken, while out there to people I know, who have said they will typed it up for Felix/Paco. But nothing comes of it.

Its a case of people being in the position who haven't got the correct qualifations required to carry out the position on the commitee. The large majority of the commitee are doing a thankless job. But, there is an inner circle who run things and maybe exclude the rest.

I have been paying community charges along with electric and water. When I weigh up the cost and the aggravation for what is now a short time we use in a year, I'm begining to think its not worth it.

Has anyone put forward or been asked to put forward things for the annual meeting?

Does anyone know what is on the agenda?

Who is voting on your behalf?

Has anyone been intouch with the local councillor or mayor?

Has the the commitee got someone lined up to fill the post on adminisrator for the El Pinet Residenciá?

If we don't hear anything, what is the point in a lot of the commitee working hard for?

I will not be able to attend the meeting but will certainly send a few questions that I would like answered or even some suggestions that might be of interest. For example, I also have heard that some people who are both resident and non resident are paying nothing. For non residents, i have already said that I understand their position, despite the fact that I would not follow suit, this summer at least. For residents, I would suggest that the committee issue a list of their names and addresses in order to name and shame them. Furthermore, I would like to know whether they could ask the administrators if those who refuse to pay, but still use the water and electricity could be individually cut off. Why not??

On a separate issue, I thought that the money we are now being asked to pay was actually going into and administrators account and not an account belonging to SJ,as follows: ADMINISTRADORES SAN JOSÉ INVERSIONES
 

I am not against those who think the opposite from me, but morally, and for the good of the many families who are choosing to live there to the best of their abilities, I feel it is worth a few months more money to see how things turn out. I aslo beleive that one united voice, spoken through the committee is the way to go

psbhoy  I agree with what you are saying but it must be remembered that SJ and the admin are on the wrong side of the law here and many residents and non residents are not paying money as a result of the legal advice they are being given .

I do not think some legal advice  to the committee and residents regards this situation would go a miss .As I have said before there are many properties in limbo as owners refused to take keys as no LFO 's were in place these properties are obviously not using any water or electric but who is responsible for their share of the charges . I would think SJ/Admin are ,but are they paying  their share for these properties .Perhaps this is a question for the meeting .

It is very easy for SJ  just to say we have no money left  .I am sure many owners who have lost out on rental income or the use of their properties feel like taking the same tact .Sorry I have  no more money .Come on surely SJ are responsible for this mess and the admin are duty bound to at least make sure the money residents have paid reach the utility companies in time to avoid cuts in services .The whole situation with SJ and their admin  throughout this concurso process has been a complete disgrace .This should be reported to the court to whom the administrators report to and are responsible to .

I have also heard that it is now unlikely that SJ are going to be able to trade on out of their difficulties  .I really think that if this is the case some serious even  if expensive legal advice would be wise and benefit all .sooner rather than later  .

I do how ever agree that  people  have no choice right now and need to pay up  just now until the  future situation is clear .It is probably best  to keep things ticking  over at least through out  the summer months ,however the overall out come looks very bleak for all involved in this never ending story . Best regards MM

This message was last edited by MAGICMEG on 29/06/2009.

We arrived back in the U.K. today after 3 weeks at El Pinet. For the latest update I would suggest that you all read page 4 of the latest on line Costa News dated 26th June. The Green light was to be given to finish the infrastructure at a full Elche Council Meeting which took place on Monday.

Please stop knocking the Committee who are doing their very best for all of us under very trying circumstances.

I am sure a 'fully qualified person' will be appointed to look after the administration of the site once the water and electric have been connected and the habititation certificates issued.

Hi Vagabond cant find the news article can you help Thanks MM

Hi Vagabond,

Who is suggesting that the Commitee are not doing a good job? I have it on good advise that we by law should have an administrator to carry out the correct and legal running of "The El Pinet Residence". The person that was to be put forward from the village was that person, he would charge less for a better job.

If you had spoken with the commitee members I have spoken to, you would have been told that is being run in a cloak and dagger fashion.

Anyway back to what is the subject of this blog. The fact that a large majority of it is in one language and still hasn't been translated! Dispite people offering (including commitee members) to do so.

The blog does mention the commencement of work, without a time scale. As they haven't got JOST on site now who is going to complete it?

There still hasn't been mention of what is on the agenda for the annual meeting and that can be laid at the door of the commitee.

I will look out for the article in the Costa Blanca news, I will have to contain myself if it mentions that the work will start in 2 weeks time.

Hi I think the committee are doing a good job under the circumstances ,however the circumstances regard SJ are such that they just don't have the money to complete the infrastructure or the unfinished property .

Things are pretty bad now and may get worse in the future if  SJ walk away .

My opinion is that expert legal advice is needed urgently regard the legal position of  SJ in relation to the  current situation of residents /owners .

If SJ  go bust and walk away one hell of a committee will be needed , experienced and professional  to be able to  work all of this out .

The current committee seem to be tackling the immediate problems ( to their credit ) but not the future difficulties which if not tackled now and properly legally challenged  could result in hugely damaging consequences for all concerned  .

The only thing for sure is that the situation SJ are in now can only get worse . I would like to know that the situation and conditions of residents and owners on El Pinet are being reported to the court who will decide on the future of  the company and what happens to their assets /affairs etc ultimately  this same court will decide the  future of the  various half completed developments SJ  have left in limbo  .

As  far as I am aware residents /owners have  no voice in  the legal  proceedings that are ongoing in the courts right now regarding  the future of SJ and their affairs .

This is not a good move for residents and owners the court should be made aware of your situation  .

Best regards MM