PW's Health....A slight worry......?

There has been a meeting between the Presidents and PW management and the figure came up then and the fact RPM haven't set/sorted the budget. I dont know why this meeting hasnt been written about by any of the Presidents, I heartily dislike not been kept up to date and it makes me suspicious of their motives. My F/in law's Spanish neighbour keeps an eye on the apartments for us and rang and told him about it and said PW are selling the line that the media are over exaggerating the financial news- we shall see. I also read a brief line on another forum about RPM and the general disillusionment.

There have been problems collecting the charges for electricity for the Foro as well but I couldnt make head nor tail out of that piece of information. Another snippet was that Intercontinental may be building the golf club- but I cant see that as they have always leased from PW rather than purchsed land and built on it.

I understand that PW hadn't/havent been payiing CC for unsold properties- that situation may have changed- if they pass them to the Banks the Banks haven't been paying maybe. Their argument was something to do with having paid for everything anyway up to a point when completions started. But there are owners  who are not paying their CC and of course RPM haven't collected the 2008 CC as well. There will be some owners who completed but are just trying to sell their apartments so are not paying their CC as well as others who are just keeping their head down and are hoping they can avoid them. Historically in Spain there have always been problems with CC and getting everyone to pay their dues and Spain has a history of people with issues in other countries hiding out and keeping under the radar. But, the law has given the management companies more teeth- we just need  RPM or similar to have more backbone. Some people withhold because they say they are unhappy with the amount they have to pay- but that argument doesnt hold water to me as the resort still has to be run and who are they to decide they dont have to pay-  pure arrogance!! If we all did that the whole place would grind to a halt and be in an appalling state very quickly and as we all no nothing changes quickly in Spain and we'd be hard pushed to get it sorted within a year.

Felt very sad when I heard all of this as it all seems such a mess. But, I do hope PW aren't pulling the wool and they are in a better situation than is being reported.

I underdstand from a friend with an apartment in another part of Spain, that anyone not paying their Community Charges, is named and shamed at the AGM of the community. So you can run, but you can't hide.

Named & shamed is a start. Getting the bloody money owed is the main thing. There are always going to be some who will not be able to pay now because they will have gone bust and the debt will only be recovered from the sale of their property. Let's hope this is being properly documented and the details should be released via RPM/Presidents to the rest of the residents as soon as possible. 

I am sick of paying for the council tax non-payers here in the UK and cetrainly don't want a 'double-dose' of this over in Spain.

Regards,

Cant you see why people dont pay its way to high,the people running it sit on there arse all day

facilities what there are over priced,work not carried out on properties

what if Polaris no longer own properties on site will we have to pay for them,if you do gooders want to throw stones

name and shame start with them cowboys and lets not forget the 5y golf plan,discount cards

there may be a recession and we where all affected not just Polaris why should we pay for there mistakes

i dont believe they will go burst ,but they will still rip us off,and i will pay no more C.C until someone speaks the truth

and let not forget the smell of pig s..t and flies do you think they will do any thing about that,so name and shame me you

hypocrites

I cant agree with you tomgeorge- I always pay my way- but you are entitled to your opinion, however I dont see why paying what I owe makes me a do gooder. After all we all knew there would be a CC and I cant really see that anyone would really think it would be £35 per month before all the apartments were built. Now we are in the position of having far fewer apartments the charge is clearly going to be higher than expected plus PW went with companies that charged higher than many of us expected- we cant change that as much as we'd want to. I'm not trying to be argumentative about this, I just dont see any justification for expecting your neighbours to pay but abstaining yourself. If we all abstain the services would be withdrawn eventually but not after a huge debt has accumulated which would still need to be paid.

I made the point in my post that if PW have passed on the apartments then who is going to pay for them- I wasnt supporting PW. But, if we have an apartment then we have to cover the maintenance charges, garbage collection, gardening , pools, lighting etc. Apparently we are contracted to these service companies and we still have to pay for the services so far provided. I agree that all that is frustrating but really cannot accept that people dont pay what they owe.  I only hope the few bad debtors have kept a cache of money somewhere for clearing their debts because it  will still be due at the rate everyone else has paid.

I agree that PW probably wont do anything about the smell from the pig farm now as its way down on their list- they cant do anything about the flies. This area has been  farm land and open land forever and  the flies are a seasonal problem- ask the long time residents from Camposol.

As for the facilities thats nothing to do with the community charge- they are clearly franchised out so that argument is with PW again and those companies. Meanwhile we need the place kept at a good standard- which visually the gardens are mostly, otherwise we will loose out in the rental market as well as the purchasing market.

RPM has been a weak link, I hoped they would pull it together eventually- I dont know if other management companies are similarly weak but I do wonder if a resort the size of CdA was just too big for them and are they working for other resorts so cant devote the time?

As it stands onecall is correct regarding naming and shaming as part of the AGM process before court action commences - I seem to remember seeing this on the La Torre forum.

This message was last edited by tomgeorge on 17/01/2010.

Well, thanks TomGeorge for being the first to admit to non-payment.

So there you are RPM...............get off your arse and start with collecting TomGeorge's arrears, swiftly followed by all the rest who 'come out' as 'conscientious objectors' because the charges to keep THEIR and everyone elses properties and facilities maintained seem too high. When you get a little bit adept at doing this, you can then maybe think about breaking the cosy little bond between PW & RPM and collect what you can of their dues.

Well wouldn't we all just love to pay nothing............................and sit in squallor. Fancy being a President then TG?

I feel you may be getting angry tomgeorge and I'm sorry if any of my comments have upset you. I sense that you may have felt you were taking the moral high ground regarding non payment of fee's. I know a lot of people suggested doing that when the charges were first presented but I understand many backed down when they realised the implications for themselves and for the resort. However, the charges for services still exist and until we can get RPM or someone to sort it we are stuck with what services we have and have to pay for them regardless of our personal feelings.

Regarding the pig farm- my understanding was that PW would have to buy out the owner who doesnt want that to happen. As for the flies I wrote only what I was told by the handy man my F/in law employed at the apartments and he has lived in the Camposol and Mazarron region for 30years and one of the bar staff at Kennelly's, the flies are seasonal.

I just cant agree that withdrawing payment would help anything as the debts still exist and would grow and the resort would face major and costly legal action- but I am entitled to my opinion, as are you.

TomGeorge,

Stop leaching of your neighbours. If everyone took your stance, the whole place would be derelict now. We are in tough times. Protect your investment, and pay your dues.

Hi everyone,

So RPM have  £125000  of cc arrears. This is not a surprise to me as we owe cc fees and I have informed RPM of this  and asked when this will be taken from our account. They have told us" it will be taken out in the next couple of weeks" and it never happens!!  I am sure we are not the only ones that this has happened to. It is RPMs incompentence that is the problem. They have all our details and have collected money before so when you tell them how much you owe and to collect it and they fail to do so its no wonder they have these arrears. The quicker they are replaced the better.

Pad

Pad, I think thats a fair point you are making and is something that could happen to any of us- given how poor RPM have turned out to be. All of this will be documented too. Tomgeorge is right about the fact RPM are being paid by us and have been shown to be appalling. This must be the case if PW joined in the no confidence vote.

I can see that some people may be waiting to sell before paying outstanding CC fee's Those people may not see why they have to pay if they have never used the apartment- but each sold property carries a community charge.

Anyway- this is just one difficulty we are facing. I know CdA hasnt developed as anticipated but I think PW have tried to get the place viable in the face of this recession, and I'm not defending them at all but I know other resorts have been left with half built properties, half built golf courses and no facilities at all.

We totally agree with Quietman and Onecall, How could not payng your community fees hurt anyone else but the community!   How about some consideration for those who bought to invest/rent - the "let it rot" attitude is not going to be a strong selling/renting point and is cutting your nose off to spite your face.  You might as well of purchased in Mumbai. We were over a few weeks ago and cannot put into words the feeling of looking at the beautiful scenery and gardens that surround us every morning.  Neither of us play golf but were so pleased to see so many people out there enjoying the course. 

We are all entitled to our own opinions but surely the majority should carry the vote via the Presidents and not via your own individual stance.  All this negativity has a detremental effect to Condado as a whole.  We expected some teething problems and are slightly worried about the Polaris situation, and accept that we are not going to get all we were promised, but look what we have got.  If they do go under we are still an attractive proposition for someone else to pick up the baton to run with, especially if we project that ourselves. United we stand, and divided we will fall !

Hopefully now we can agree to all pull in the same direction.

TQM or someone must have a better understanding than me of the constitution of Resorts such as CDA.

This level 3 issues and level 2 and level 1 is all dutch (or spanish) to me.

WE must have some teeth to get things done other than the direct action being talked about which I am sorry only makes a bad situation worse.

The Presidents have to come out and tell us what they are aware of.

They have to consider what action they can take.

They then have to consider what needs to be done to get things done and consult the masses about it.

I appreciate a)what PW have done to mitigate the affects of the recession and b) get CDA to the place it is.

However

We all know either directly or indirectly there are warts as well as flowers and it is only fair that those with problems with their apartment build etc see some progress or have some comfort in PW or someone rectifying the issues.

This is a priority!!

I have suggested that the Presidents get themselves into groups and take an area for each group and take responsibility to address that area, whether it be replacing RPM to understanding who or what it will take to get the clubhouse built.

Until we have a handle on all of the issues, PW and RPM will keep us chasing our tails and we will run the risk of out of the frying pan into the fire.

We have the basics here of a really top class Resort and I for one do not want to see it go the way of others.

Can we therefore all pull together for what ever reason whether it be for long term investment or shorter term gain and agree where we are and where we want to be and see what is needed to get there.

This debate could go on forever, just lets accept what PW has done, no point in crying over spilt milk.  As Cuz said a few days ago would it not be better to wait and see what announcements PW make in the next few months rather than speculating what MIGHT happen.  We have absolutely no control over what is going to happen so why worry about it, I'll worry if and when required but not a minute before.

As for non payment of cc, the quicker these people are taken to court the quicker they are of Condado, who really wants neighbours who are prepared to use the facilities, enjoy the ambience and literally stick two fingers up at the rest of us, without a by nor leave, an absolute disgrace.  We all want the same things for Condado and we need to work as a team to achieve it, hangers on are not welcome.

There is no excuse for not paying cc,  you are not getting back at PW, you are cheating your friends and neighbours...If you want to go along those lines still..then you deserve all you get...which in Spain means,  your apartment in payment. May seem harsh but quite honestly, it's the best action.  We don't need people like this in our community.

I posted on this thread about 3 days ago about RPM.  This was reported on CDA forum by Mel Beasley, president of N8 and level 2 president of N8, N7 and Penthouses 1 - 7.   He has said that they are now looking for a new management company and they have the backing of PW to do this.  It will take a couple of months to organise it.  Also new contractors are being invited to supply tenders.

It took RPM over 6 - 9 months to get round to taking our cc and every one elses on N7.  They kept saying there was a problem with the bank.  They have been taking 4 months out of our accounts over the past few months to enable us to catch up.  This is people that want to pay their fees, so how many are there that are getting away with not paying?  We thought RPM needed the opportunity to run the site for at least a year, but they have done nothing to prove they know what they are doing. 

As for the flies and the pig smell,  as everyone else has said, the flies come with the fruit season, and what do you suggest they do about the pigs?  I remember it being said that PW did try to buy the farmer out, but he was having none of it.  Being in a rural area brings these aromas with it, personally rather have that than traffic fumes.

June

I think we need to remember that withholding community fees is not withhlding money from Polaris, but from the community.  That said, there are a number of things that will protect those who are paying.  The Horizontal Properties Act covers community fees, and the non-payment.  The fees are owed by the property, so if Polaris - or anyone else, sells a property without the fees being up to date then these are still owed by the new owner.  Additionally, if fees aren't up to date, owners should not be allowed to vote at AGMs - so if Polaris are not up to date that would allow the community to take control away from them, re the president positions.  Ultimately the community can take legal action against non-payers.  Obviously for any of these things to happen we need to get some decent administrators working for our community!

Ted

I think we need to remember that withholding community fees is not withhlding money from Polaris, but from the community.  That said, there are a number of things that will protect those who are paying.  The Horizontal Properties Act covers community fees, and the non-payment.  The fees are owed by the property, so if Polaris - or anyone else, sells a property without the fees being up to date then these are still owed by the new owner.  Additionally, if fees aren't up to date, owners should not be allowed to vote at AGMs - so if Polaris are not up to date that would allow the community to take control away from them, re the president positions.  Ultimately the community can take legal action against non-payers.  Obviously for any of these things to happen we need to get some decent administrators working for our community!

Ted

All you scroungers who are on your high horse about not paying your cc, because of flies and a pig farm is a disgrace, if you don't pay you shouldn't have any input to the resort, and have no say on who runs it, so pay up or shut up, and I  take it while you are not paying you don't use the pools or use the rubbish collections etc, but I bet you pay your electric and water bills on time because they would cut you off, why not try it with your bank and tell them you aren't going to pay your mortgage because the resort isn't been run properly. Lets hope when they get this sorted people like tomgeorge or whoever get taken to court and are forced to pay all monies owed plus intrest

Payment of the CC is only one issue in the current climate and it appears to me that people are in agreement that owners should be paying it- no argument. In the pack of completion paperwork we were sent was a document for the management company and our Solicitor told us we had to complete that so fees could be gathered. Maybe that document wasnt made available to everyone and so some have been able to avoid sending RPM their details and others have had problems with RPM..

No doubt all will become clearer at the next AGM.

I'm hoping that in the next week some better PW news is made available and also that we'll hear more about the situation with RPM.

Despite all of this I like the resort, thought it looked great on a recent flying vist and hope to be over within the month.