First AGM - Setting up the community

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08 Dec 2011 8:49 AM by miguelcarr Star rating. 206 forum posts Send private message

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Jo & Jim you dont want to be there now, as Richard has told us there's no power to CDP.



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08 Dec 2011 1:53 PM by miguelcarr Star rating. 206 forum posts Send private message

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Ray

I wonder if it would be a good Idea saying as you are a member of the SJ residents association asking Rafa if he would attend the AGM, just to get a Spanish veiw on rules & regulations. Not sure if everyone will agree but it was just a thought.

Good news at least about the Generator eh.



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08 Dec 2011 9:40 PM by colandvon Star rating. 17 forum posts Send private message

 

I'm sure we all agree that a community of owners needs to be in place, then maybe some authority could be exerted to get things done on the site, ie getting rid of the fences, realistic pool opening dates, completion of facilities etc.

There is a right and wrong way of setting this up, this is not the right way. It is being forced on us at short notice. Apart from the unrealistic rules, the document is not about what is said but more what is not said, ie

How many need to be present to form a quorum.

Can the developer use the votes of unsold properties.

Insufficient detail re. cost breakdown.

Insufficient detail re management costs.

Is there a relationship between  Pentagono Multiservicios and Piensa.

Whilst this company may be good at what they do, there must be efficient management companies less than 200 Km away.

Whilst we agree with others that propose to vote no to the proposals , it is not clear how to do this unless a proxy is given to someone who will attend the meeting. Is there anyone going to the meeting who would be prepared to carry proxies for those who cannot be present ?

Colin & Yvonne

 

 




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08 Dec 2011 11:22 PM by rowleyhouse Star rating. 166 forum posts Send private message

Hi All

Lets remember the management company are those appointed by receiving the required vote from home owners.  It is therefore essential we make our views known and I suggest complete the proxy form to ensure no questions are raised legally regarding 3rd parties speaking or voting on our behalf.

We can arrange to scan the proxy template and load it on the site if necessary.

Whilst appreciating we will all have some difference of opinions, the budget, pool opening, timing of the meeting are all questionable, there again I think we had 7 days notice to install water or be cut off, so nothing surprises us now!

Pool – We are in favour of the pools being open say April – October but given the development is primary second homes, we do not feel it can be justified paying for regular cleaning of the pool between November and March.  Why pay for all year when it won't be used or is too cold and the rule around silence between 1-3pm is madness given these are holiday homes!
 
We are surprised there are charges for electric and water – certainly for water we are paying our individual standing and usage charges – breakdown of these costs proposed required - can anyone throw any light on this part of the budget?
 
What community repairs are anticipated to support the 3500 budget?  New development!  Or are we buying a new generated after the fire!!
 
We were under the impression upon purchase the communal garden area’s would be maintained by Pulpi – we would not be happy paying for garden work whilst we have no access to the full site communal area’s – given the budget is for Phase 1-3 the charges in budget in current climate are high - labour must be low at the moment with the unemployment rate and the design has been specifically designed for low maintence.
 
No parking on the street – art 14 – given all residents part in the street at present – can’t see this voted in
 
Art 15 silence after 12 – would recommend again this is revisited, lets face it some of the Spanish are only just going out at this time!
 
I think there are enough owners on this site to make sure we get what we want and at the price we feel is reasonable.
 
lets not assume people are reading this site at present and if you have e mail addresses for fellow owners make contact with them to make them aware of the proposals and the importance of them having a voice at the meeting.
 
Regards
 
Bev & Martin
Phase 2 Calas
 



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09 Dec 2011 7:15 PM by Curtis Star rating. 111 forum posts Send private message

Hi All

First of all just to report that the second generator is now up and running and all is power is restored. (At least it was when I left the house an hour ago!)

Im delighted to see such a response to this issue.

It was obvious from the outset that this was a complete setup - ie Another Peinsa trick to screw us for as much as they can.

Although Im not on phases 1-3 I fully support your efforts on this one. I think the whole thing is a sham and we have to fight against it and I certainly will be when it comes to our turn. I'll await the outcome before taking advice from my solicitor on where we stand although I do know that Maria del Castro has written about this on EOS in the past and may be able to advise those of you attending next week.

Assuming most people cannot attend due to the short notice (which I believe renders the meeting illegal!) I think we may end up with a fait acompli on this occasion. However it may be possible in the future to get better organised and oust these gangsters. After all considering the mess Peinsa has left us I cant imagine their beloved Director doing any better for us - Can you?

One other thing - assuming they win this battle I suggest that we get the phone number of our beloved president to ensure we can contact every day and every night on every problem until he finishes the resort the way they were mean to.

Keep the faith and keep up the fight

S




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09 Dec 2011 8:39 PM by Lavinia Star rating. 3 forum posts Send private message

Dear all,

Action must be taken now and that "we" set up a group headed by a legal administrator (asking Penisar to provide their appointed representative) otherwise we all will end up paying far more than we should.

The reason is  the Bank have paid for the house build and Penisar are responsible for the site.

We believe Penisar may not have funds available and therefore they will have to pass on the cost of maintenace to us who have purchased.

Any idea who we can get to represent us at this very late stage?

Surely we should have been give more notice and why so far from site?

L

 

 

 




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09 Dec 2011 9:12 PM by rowleyhouse Star rating. 166 forum posts Send private message

Lets get the proxy votes in to those who can represent us on the day - they cannot push something through if they are out voted.  Anyone know the legal position with regards to number of votes they need min?  Can the builders who will have responsibility to pay for completed houses out vote us irrespective?




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09 Dec 2011 9:20 PM by rayann Star rating in Terreros & South Shi.... 79 forum posts Send private message

Spot on Bev & Martin - we were also told the gardens AND roads etc were to be maintained by Pulpi. Only the pools incurred a communal charge from residents. Once fences are down the whole site will be open to everyone passing thru. I for one am against tin pot regimes telling me where I can park and when I can visit pool. I abide by rules in place both in CDP and my hometown here in uk, no problem. So instead of trying to arrange later meetings we should just tell them politely what to do with there community and pay rates to the council as a lot of us thought was going to be the case.

Merry Christmas, Victor
 



This message was last edited by rayann on 12/12/2011.


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10 Dec 2011 7:35 PM by MOJITO Star rating in Cupar Fife / San Jua.... 268 forum posts Send private message

Agreed.  Who can we send the proxy votes to?



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10 Dec 2011 8:43 PM by rayann Star rating in Terreros & South Shi.... 79 forum posts Send private message

Hi All,

First of all, we hope you all have a great Christmas and a fantastic prosperous new year in SJ and your home countries.

I took the liberty of emailing the proposed community documents to our friends, a couple from Spain, we have got to know very well on the site. This was part of their reply -

In my opinion we (residents in Calas del Pinar) should create a Comunidad de Vecinos (House Owners Association.. I think it is the English name). But this should be create when the actual properter of the "goods" in the comunity (swiming pools, internal lighting, water for irrigation etc) finish all the jobs open the streets, paviments and open the central area. I think it is in the same moment that Pulpí Council finally accept officially the end of the "urbanization" works.
 
 The main point here in their reply, in my opinion, is that the whole site must be finished before a community can be set up. Is Peinsa setting up different communities for different phases? Or, more likely, are they trying to cut costs for the running of the site. We all know the answer to that. But having talked about this before to our friends from Spain, they say this is not acceptable as builders electricity etc is the norm, until mains services can be connected and the whole urb is complete. I know they are taking this further.
 
I think (or hope...) this meetig on the 14th will be blown out of the water and we will come to a more amicable solution, like what I said about Pulpi council..........
 
Saludos Cordiales, Victor & Margaret
 
 



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11 Dec 2011 11:36 AM by pk Star rating. 18 forum posts Send private message

Would it be worth asking Maria del Castro the question as to whether we only pay community charge once the whole site has been completed.   It would be interesting to know what the Spanish are saying about the charges.
We too were told that we would only have to pay for the pool because the site was open to everyone and for this reason Pulpi would maintain the gardens.

Frank & Pat 




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12 Dec 2011 12:53 PM by Lavinia Star rating. 3 forum posts Send private message

 

URGENT

This meeting is on 14th would is going to attend and can I fax or email my right to act on my behalf at the meeting?

Lavinia

 




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13 Dec 2011 4:15 PM by miguelcarr Star rating. 206 forum posts Send private message

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Hi All

This is a quote off Justin & the EOS team on the main site, many thanks to Jo & Jim (MOJITO)

The fact that people have completed on properties in your community means that it needs a president and administrator to run it.

In terms of your "president", the president cannot be self appointed.  He or she must be voted in at an AGM or EGM.

In terms of communities where the developer still owns the majority of properties, the developer only gets one vote for all the properties it owns, and not one vote for each property.  I'm pretty sure of that but you'd best download the horizontal property laws (right click and save the pdf to your PC) here and just check that to make certain.

With regards to the administrator, remember that he/she must also be voted in at the AGM.  In the majority of cases the initial administrator is selected by the developer to attend the first meeting, but again, this can be approved on the day or not.

Not sure if any of that has been at all helpful

Justin



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13 Dec 2011 5:51 PM by miguelcarr Star rating. 206 forum posts Send private message

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Hi

Last one off me today as I am off on the drink, had a hard day in the office today. I hope all goes well for you lot voting tomorrow this last post was sent in by Lobin on the main site. Good Luck & Goodnight

 

With respect to votes, there is a double system.  Each owner counts for one vote the first part of the system, regardless of how many units he holds in the community.  The second part of the voting system counts votes by percentage of ownership in the community and the percentage assigned to each unit is mentioned in the Notarial Deed (Escritura).

For example, for those matters where a majority of votes is required, you need to count the individual votes of one vote per owner PLUS the percentage votes and the majority of both is required to carry the matter.  This is why in communities where the developer still owns many units,  he virtually has a veto power which is limited only by the fact that to carry a matter you also need majority (or more) of individual owners.

Justin is right that the community exists "de facto" and therefore it is adviseable to formalize it since the moment in which completion of the first unit is done since at that time there is already a community of owners, if only two.



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14 Dec 2011 3:48 PM by domggg Star rating. 24 forum posts Send private message

 Hola to All

A summary of my notes of meeting enclosed.

 

Numbers of people attending, English 10, Spanish 22, Pentágono Multiservices (management company) 1, Daniel Palazon Fernandez, joint Manager of Peinsa & Patricia 
 
Before starting meeting people were identified as owners & associated proxy votes.
 
Meeting started in Spanish followed by English translation by Inés from Pentágono.
 
It was stated the comunidad would commence on 01/01/2012 & Peinsa would not be responsible for any costs for Phase 1,2 or 3 of development.
 
The comunidad was registered in Cuevas de Almanzora in 2009 by Peinsa but no further action taken.
 
The electricity & water supplies for the street lighting, pools & garden area around phase 1 pool were not yet separated from rest of site & Peinsa would continue to supply.
 
Mains electric should be around Easter but no firm dates given.
 
There was an apology for sending letters to incorrect addresses, this information was supplied by Peinsa and also because the meeting was called at 2 weeks notice. Pentágolon were asked to set up the comunidad on 28th November with a start date of 01/01/2012. Therefore a meeting was required before Christmas.
 
A question was asked i.e. if  all the development should be completed before comunidad was started.  This was answered by stating the comunidad starts when you sign the deeds for your house even if you are not paying for electricity etc.
 
It was stated the only garden area our comunidad was responsible for was the area around phase 1 pool.  All other areas were currently maintained by Peinsa but would be handed over to Pulpi council at a future date.
 
There followed a very loud discussion on the budget. This discussion touched on the pools being very expensive. However the discussion grew more intense when a quotation for a one pool & gardens was produced for a price of € 4800 per year. Accusations were raised if there was a connection between Pentágono & Peinsa. Also why the management costs were so high.
 
The Pentágono management company attempted to revise the € 200 for 6 months cost to € 100 & obtain new estimates. At this point in time the discussion was very loud with people standing up to make their point.  Pentágono stated it was a provisional budget but the mood of the meeting was very strong about the ability / costs of Pentágono to manage our comunidad.
 
The Pentágono representatives closed their books & left the meeting. We assumed at this point in time Pentágono were sacked!
 
The outcome was that three Spanish homeowners committed to obtain quotes from other management companies in the area & schedule a further meeting of residents to select one company. For attending the next meeting I volunteered to collect mail addresses of English residents to enable people to be contacted to attend the meeting.
 
If you know the contact details (name address & email) of non Almeria Sol, Calas del Pinar Phase 1, 2 & 3 residents, can you email me details ASAP.
 
It was a very interesting morning !
 
Regards.
 
Dominic

 

 

 



This message was last edited by domggg on 14/12/2011.



This message was last edited by domggg on 14/12/2011.


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14 Dec 2011 6:33 PM by richclarkee Star rating in San Juan de los Terr.... 125 forum posts Send private message

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As manager for 10 places on cdp  and  also vice president (formerly a president) of 1 part of communidad in Las  Mimosas I just feel it prudent to give me 2 p worth.

The management company who appeared voluntarily probably walked out as it sounds like they had taken the mood and questions as an insult.

Just be very careful on who this job is given too and what budget is set. To me, 400 euros a year per property is not overly pricey considering maintenance etc.

In my experience certain owners (particularly non residents of sj) will try and get the absolute rock bottom lowest price possible and then you will get a really poor service and the community will start to look shabby and unloved.

The adage of you get what you pay for generally is one to abide by. Make sure whoever gets the job has in the contrato the exact job description and expectations of the community.

Also as and when you pick a president/vp, please have a least someone that speaks spanish and lives on site.

Hope you dont mind my ramblings. Im only thinking of you guys!

Good luck and felices fiestas to one and all!

 



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Richard Clark www.golfsanjuan.com ww.golfsanjuan.es Property Management


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14 Dec 2011 10:40 PM by MOJITO Star rating in Cupar Fife / San Jua.... 268 forum posts Send private message

Thanks Richard.  Fair points.  We look forward to getting tenders for maintenance work.  I'm not sure if we have any Spanish residents on-site as yet. 



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16 Dec 2011 7:28 PM by curtis Star rating. 111 forum posts Send private message

Richard

Your points are well made. especially the one where you mention the contractual obligations, what I call Service Level Agreements. That is so that we know exactly what we are getting and what they (the company) have to do to earn their fees.

I would say that I think most people are annoyed at the way  this was sprung on them and in particular some of the quotes seemed excessive as well. couple with the tie to Peinsa and the confusion over who should be paying for what - Pulpi, the developer ourselves etc etc.

So all in all it was just badly handled as usual.

Best for now

Sean




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16 Dec 2011 10:22 PM by briansue Star rating. 15 forum posts Send private message

Just recieved this from our solicitor,s office today is anyone else aware of this meeting on monday.


Sent:
 Friday, 16 December 2011, 19:27
Subject: Residents meeting for Calas del Pinar

Hola All
Patricia from Peinsa has notified me of a meeting regarding the setting up of 'comunidad' with her boss Yolanda on Monday 19th Dec at 4.00pm in the sales office. I shall be attending & you are welcome to attend if in terreros.
I will send an update when meeting completes.
Dominic

 



This message was last edited by briansue on 16/12/2011.

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17 Dec 2011 11:08 AM by keith77 Star rating. 30 forum posts Send private message

Hi

Is the price to be dictated by price per property only,or different charges for larger and smaller plot sizes?

i take the amount will be a division of the properties sold ie-

plots 500

plots sold 300 so fee 1000 / 300 =3.33

plots sold 400 so fee 1000 / 400 = 2.5

So reducing downwards till fully sold?

regards

Keith 




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