Looked at our contract which we signed on 15th September 2007 and the specs still say pre-installed, looking at the specs, the date at the bottom is 0612-2006 so they were still circulating the same specs a year later

 

Hi All

Below is a copy of a question I posted on the General Forum and an Answer to it from a Spanish Lawyer who regularly contributes to EOS.

Question

I wonder if you could help, we are buying a property from large builder in Murcia, before agreeing to buy this off plan property we were shown around another complex they had built in Murcia. In the show apartment it had air conditioning installed and during the visit I asked if air conditioning would be installed in the new apartments as standard, I was told that it would be.

The following day we agreed to buy one of the off plan apartments and signed the contract and were given a copy.

In the quality specifications section, which is a signed part of my Contract, it clearly states under the section Air Conditioning and Heating “ Air conditioning pre-installed” which we took to mean that air conditioning was included, which was in line with the information we had been given verbally by the representative. The builders now are saying that the term Pre-installed only means that the basic pluming and electrics are provided and not the full system.

Please can you advise me if it is reasonable for us to have considered air conditioning would be provided and if we pursue this are we likely to succeed in having the air conditioning provided as standard?

Many Thanks

Phil

Answer

would try to have it for sure. The description is misleading and that is against Consumers Law. Have they met the contract completely? If not, you can alternatively, ask to have the Air Conditioning units as a compensation.

Best,

Maria

The 'Quality Specs' attached to the back of our contract for the Golf Suites development is dated 27 June 2007, Version 01, and incudes 'Air conditioning pre-installed'.  This is the only page of the contract which is in English only, the rest being Spanish with English translation alongside.  I assume that all the contracts follow the same layout.  The Spanish clauses are the contractual ones.  Does anyone suspect that PW may try to convince us that 'pre-installation' has been misinterpreted / mis-translated as 'pre-installed'?

Our contract is in the same format - however the fact that the specification is annexed to the contract means that it forms part of it.  PW may well try to argue that the words 'pre-installed' have been incorrectly translated but that is their problem - they arranged the translation of the contracts, not us!  The reference in the contract to air conditioning being pre-installed and, just as importantly, the verbal representations made by staff at the show apartments that air con would be included, could give us a fairly strong case.  I personally doubt that we will get anywhere with it but I don't think we should give up without at least trying. 

I will be e-mailing PW today and also copying the e-mail to our solicitor for advice.  Will let you know what (if any) response we get!

Might be wrong but just after where you sign on the contract it does say that the English version has basically been translated from the Spanish text and if there are any discrepancies then the Spanish text will govern.

Obviously the spec is only in English for us English buyers but this will have originally been translated from an original Spanish version.

All the brochures state pre-installation not pre-installed.

 

Hi All

I would suggest, it would only hold water for them to say that it’s a mistranslation, if they had provided the Quality Specifications in Spanish as well as English, as they haven’t the only document you have is the one they provided in English so that is the only one you can be expected to refer to.

Phil

Can i add to the air-conditioning debate.

we went out in Nov 06 and like everyone else were shown various show properties in the PW complexes.

I asked the same type of questions, ie. do the wardrobes have draws, bathroom have the sink surrounds, and is the air conditioning included.

The reply we got from the agent we used and the reps in the show homes were.

You are buying off plan, all things are subject to change, the show home as you see it now is how it will be in Jardines as for fit and finish BUT air conditioning is "pre-installed" and he explained this as the pipework, electricity connections etc will be fitted but WE would have to buy the air conditioning units and have them installed.

We have never had any expectation as to air con as our rep definitley told us we would have to fit the actual units and that what was meant by "pre-installed"

Have other reps mis-represented things to buyers?

 

Hi all

With respect, this is starting to go round in circles now with the same positive and negative points coming up again and again. If you are happy with thing as they are then that’s good. If you believe you are not receiving what you signed up to, then challenge them on it. I know what I am doing.

Regards

Phil

Hi All,

When we purchased mid 2007 we were told that Air Con pipe works etc would be included and units would not. I realise that this has been discussed to the n'th degree but in my opinion if Air Con was included the contract would surely not state PRE-anything. It would simply say Installed or Included. Fortunately my Agent, although he's a useless ****, got this one right and when I got the contract through I had no need to querie the 'Pre-' with my Solicitor before signing.

For my part I'm still unhappy with several other issues, which we were all told were included and are now not. My complaint about these items will be forwarded to Customer Services.

I was advised from the outset (Nov 2006) that i would have to add the air-con units myself, but that pipework/electrics would be in place to enable this.

As for forcing Polaris to do it now, then personally i would prefer to install the best units that i can, not some cheap 'minimal' ones (same goes for furniture) - read into that what you want to !

 

I agree, our agents never misled us from the start, we were told in 2006 that air con was just pipework and electrics.  We looked at different sites, not just Polaris, and we knew what to look out for.  Personally, we would like to put our own air con in,  the one that we choose rather than the cheapest that polaris can supply. We feel that over a few years it will pay for itself. We were a little disappointed that we didn't get a vanity unit or drawers but were told from the start that in buying offplan, specifications can change.  After all, we do have 3 extra units in the kitchen, from the original spec which just showed a breakfast bar, which is in our favour.

We are looking forward to spending holidays in Condado and we feel we have bought into something very special and after spending many weeks in Polaris resorts (La Torre and Mar Menor), I am sure that they know what they are doing and have every faith in Polaris.

 

 

Take a look at the 'Eye on Condado' thread if you are looking to buy air con post completion. I think LRJ has come up with a very good idea. The way building is progressing maybe those interetsed from Jardines & Los Naranjos can work out some kind of timetable with a local supplier.

   

OK just come back from a week in Spain and I would have to say not the best week in Spain we have ever spent 03 to 10 May 08, but I am glad to say this was due to the poor weather this week and not my experience at Condado or with Polaris World (PW).

I still have issues with PW about technicalities about the properties we are buying but these are technicalities and not relevant to the overall concept we have all bought into. It was nice to go back and get a reality update at what we are doing buying a property in Spain. Driving around the area reminded us why we decided to buy property in Murcis in the first place, it just offers everything we are looking for. Granted not all is on your doorstep but just travel a short distance (within half an hour) you can be in glorious scenery to rival the UK Lake District or at Beaches the likes of which you would only fined in the remote coves around the UK Coastline, City life and typical tourist areas are also available if that’s your bag, but all with sunshine as standard, well most of the year anyway.

We last went out in September 07 and at that time the only thing to see was the site office and the distant cranes. The progress from then to now is breathtaking. In speaking to the on site representative’s they recon that all Jardin’s 1 to 13 will be handed over by August 08? and Naranjos Jardin’s possibly by the end of the year?? Penthouses not long after that???

I had a meeting with my Solicitor about the issues previously mentioned on this Forum about Air Conditioning and Window Shutters and she agreed albeit not a clear cut case worth fighting, so I went for a meeting with PW customer services and presented them with my complaint on these issues which I will now send to them a written form. I will fight them all the way on these issues, but lets not get lost in this, even if I loose, which isn’t a concept I indulged in, but if this was to happen I believe we have got a little peace of paradise.

Glad to read that its all coming on so well. Have just seen the recent phpoto's on Polaris worl art and they reminded us why we have bought into this- it all looks great. Jardin04 suggests that a residents association (on another thread) may be able to generate enthusiasm for a further supermarket (even a minimart would be good) near our Jardines once we are all complete. I think we'd be keen to support that- I feel many people will have bought with the plan to be close to the shops and this change will make living on Condado more difficult for them. Its much less of a problem to us but I know our relatives who are more elderly and one in particular who has trouble walking any distance will be disappointed the shops are more the 'popping' distance.

 

Hi All

With reference to the disappearing pools, I am glad to say at the moment this one doesn’t affect me but like all the other things they have changed, that one way or another have affected most of us, as long as they can get away with it they will. The problem is the bottom has fallen out of the Spanish property market and they are not selling as fast as they would have liked or had committed to, so they are cutting corners and cutting back where ever possible to save money. This would explain the reasons they are building the ones they have sold so fast and making sure we complete quickly to get the money back and reduce the debt they will have. And not providing all they told us they would like town centres, pools, air con, and so on also trying to increase revenue by selling 25 year golf packages and removing annual membership to try to make us buy it. The only people that have to do what we committed to are us, that said if they don’t supply what they contracted to and the changes they make are considered unreasonable this I believe is grounds to cancel as they are not fulfilling the contract. I am not suggesting you do this as I still think this will be a fantastic development in the long term but with the world finances as they are it may be a little longer. But as I have suggested before the only strength we have is in numbers, united we stand divided we fall. If we keep shrugging our shoulders and saying what can I do, they will keep cutting back to save themselves money.

Regards

Phil

Hi All

Very concerned to note the problems about the disappearing and moving of pools in some of the Jardins.  This doesn't affect us as we are in Jardin 12 (where the show apartments are) and have already identified our own apartments when we visited - the pool is in the exact place that we expected.  However, I do share everyone's concern as we too deliberately selected a plot overlooking the pool. 

Certainly in this country, these changes would amount to a fundamental change to the terms of the contract - not only in relation to the pools (number of pools and position of them) but also with regard to the removal of the Foro town centre.  These changes would be sufficient, in the UK at least, to allow us to argue breach of the contract conditions by PW and withdraw from the contract.  I am fairly certain that PW will have a condition in the contract which allows them to change layouts, facilities etc without affecting the validity of the contract.  Again in the UK I think you could successfully argue under the Unfair Contract Terms Act that such a clause is unfairly biased towards one party - but not sure what the legal position on this would be in Spain.

I was looking on the internet last night for information about the Foro - according to a number of websites the original Foro was to provide a number of bars, cafes, restaurants etc as well as shops, spa, leisure facilities etc.  The information I have seen relating to the new town centre between the Jardines and Los Naranjos doesn't mention anything about these facilities but just talks about tennis courts, pool and spa.  I am not convinced that this new town centre is going to provide the same facilities as the original plans for the Foro.   If it does, then as has been posted before, hopefully the town centre will be busier and have more of an atmosphere but if it doesn't provide the range of facilities as originally planned, this will be seriously detrimental to the resort as a whole in terms of future value of properties, rental prospects etc.

I will be e-mailing PW Customer Services and also our Solicitors in Spain this morning for advice. 

Debbie

Guys

I sent a complaint in last week over the absence of things such as bathroom unit, wardrobe drawers, air con, etc. They called me back today to say that that we won't be getting them (which is what my complaint was about) and that we were getting a shower and shutters which weren't originally specified......how they like to twist things to their advantage.

i also asked about the pools as, although I'm garden 7 on Los Naranjos, I was concerned they would start moving them here as well. They have just sent a plan through showing it in the middle when first planned so hopefully the plan is up to date. it looks like PW are altering things to suit themselves due to the current climate, hence why they're releasing early and although this makes sense in one respect I think they should sit back and think on the impact some of their decisions are making on their "customers"

Phil