1.9mtr sat dish and stand

We are now being looked after by Sagesa.  They will be collecting the monthly fees and "looking after our every need".  I have spoken to them this morning and also emailed a list of pertinent questions. When I get a reply I will post it here. In the meantime their website is www.sagesa.net and our contact is Alejandro Merino +34 952 832 345 and his email is alejandro_merino@sagesa.net  I was told that Victor Sanchez is no longer involved in the management etc of our development, just with the completion of property sales.

The weather continues hot and sunny here.

Thea

Hi Thea

Does this mean that the lifts will be up and running and main electric supply connected and security guard on the gate?  I dare say this is probabley some of the same questions you have.

Regds

Brian

I had a meeting today with Alejando Merino Martin of Sagesa. He told me several things:

1. His company was appointed by the builder before Christmas to administer the affairs of the complex, ie organise the gardeners, the security, the swimming pool maintenance, common areas cleaning etc. and eventually collect the community charges
2. The complex is still owned by Moleon and there is no bank about to "take over " - this is an unfortunate rumour started by an unknown person
3. Of all of the 230 apartments in the complex, about 110 have been sold but of these, only 40 or so have been sold to completion, ie title deeds signed and final payments made ( these figures are a couple of months old now )
4. The reason the electricity is not yet metered is that the electricity company wanted to have its own gate to the community, but of course this is not now possible and so a compromise of sorts has been reached and metering is expected almost immediately. Once this takes place the lifts will be commissioned
5. Until current costs have been analysed and broken down into apartment units we won't know what the monthly charge might be and Alex did not want to speculate at this time. His company administers 40 communites on the Costa del Sol, east from Mijas west to Sotogrande and several of them are in our immediate area, including Paraiso Park and Los Arqueros
6. The developer is anxious to hand the community over to all of us so the sooner you all complete your purchases the sooner that will happen and the happier all of us here will be

To conclude, Alex said he will email me with confirmation of the figures stated in point 3 above and of course I will post that here when I get it

Regarding the unfinished bridge, the problem has to do with a dispute about shared payment, mainly a Marbella Golf Club issue which should be sorted out soon (Spanish time soon ..... )

Thea

This message was last edited by TheaH on 5/21/2008.

Hi Thea

Thank you for your excellent update on the management company.  It is quite worrying that only 40 of 230 apartments have been completed (which is a very different story that we have been told by the Sales Office!!).  We are in Block 20 1/3 and completed last July and have enjoyed many visits to La Hacienda since.  We love the development but are increasingly frustrated with the lack of progress - particularly within the grounds and on the approach road to the entrance.    It is a really beautiful development but unless more of the investors complete then it will take so much longer to establish the community.   We visit our apartment often (have been four times so far this year) and I am returning on 19 June for one week.  I will be bringing guests with me and it is disappointing that there is very little progress since their last visit.   

Hope to meet you on one of our visits Thea

Isobel and Kenny

Thanks for your post. As soon as I have more information from Alex I will post it. We are compiling a list of snags for the entire complex so that the builder will get them fixed before handing the community over to the owners. So if anyone has anything specific to point out, please let me know or let Alex know as soon as you can.
I really enjoy living here and wish others could also move out permanently. 
The other day I noticed that all the little skips that had lined the perimeter road were gone and so people have been putting their rubbish out on the pathways by the road. This is bad. There is a skip in the parking lot opposite the office and I suppose that is what we all have to use now.
It would be lovely to meet you, please come and knock on my door when you are here next.
Thea

Hi

We recently posted our first thread on the site under "Frustrated" which arose basically through our sheer frustrtion with the developer. Having finally agreed a price with the developer last November following legal proceedings that we instigated due to their breach of contract, we have been attempting to complete now for over 3 months but the developer is simply ignoring our lawyers repeated requests to fix a date siting in one case their "financial position" not allowing them to do so. You would think they would be keen to complete in view of their need to finalise sales asap, so you wonder what is going on. It would appear we may not be alone in this difficulty as there seem to be another 70 purchasers who have agreed to buy but are still awaiting final completion.

We do not wish to alarm those that have already completed because we like you think the development is superb and would only be too pleased to complete even though there are still risks involved if the developer is not able to complete on those they have sold let alone the 120 apartments that are still for sale. However, we should all be wary of allowing the developer to hand over to the community until such time as we are satisfied about the financial implications of doing so. We are not sure how the logistics work but if only 40 apartments have to foot the cost of maintainance the costs may be horrendous. It may be the developer has a legal obligation to contribute in relation to the unsold units and we will check this with our lawyers.

We are coming over to Spain the week commencing 16 June (fingers crossed) in the hope of completing and will be visiting Carolina on site on the18th. If possible we would like to meet any resident  who may be on site that day to say hello and find out about life on the development. Our apartment is on the ground floor in Block 19.

 Chris & Mick

I wonder if there is something specific delaying your particular completion ? I know of owners who have recently completed and of a few who will complete next week.
Regarding the common area fees, these are determined on a footprint basis so those who have completed will share the cost on an apartment per square foot basis with all of the other apartments whether they have been sold or not. Those of us who have lived in communities such as this before are fully aware of how all this gets divided up and those who have actually completed DO NOT bear the cost for those who have yet to complete. No doubt your lawyer will explain all of this to you.
I am sorry to see that you are still feeling negative towards the developer and his financial situation. Please have a chat with your lawyers. I am sure they will explain all of the financial implications to you and then you will no longer be feeling this way.
Thea

Hi

I wonder whether or not you have had any feedback from the management company following your meeting with them. It  would be nice to hear that sales have progressed to final completion in relation to those 100 or so properties that have been contracted to be bought - if not it seems that the developer has real problems with this site.

I visited the site this week for progress but got no staight answers from Carolina - all I do know is that despite being told that our apartment "snags " had been rectified and the property cleaned for occupation - it was not and still required considerable work -nothing too major but my concern is that if the same impression is being given to potential buyers than they have no chance in hell of getting anyone else to complete. I for one will not complete unless I get cast iron assurances that the developer will get matters sorted and fast. i asked about water supplies, electricity and the home automation system and was told they were not quite up and running yet but would be soon-asking for an indication of a time frame I just got blank looks from Carolina and Oscar and an effective shrug of the shoulders. One big concern is the two unfinished blocks as you enter the site which gives a really bad impression to potential buyers and the outlook from the pool in this area is particularly unattractive and would put most people off wishing to rent apartments for their holidays.

Other threads on this site clearly show that there are a lot of disgruntled purchasers and if the developer does not get a grip of the situation very soon the omens are not good.

I for one am very, very disappointed despite the fact it could and should be a fabulous development as we all anticipated - its a great shame.

Today I got an invoice from Sagesa for community charges.  I have no problem with paying community charges, but I have to know the basis for such charges.  These are some of the problems that Sagesa need to explain

- what is the period for the community fees - the invoice doesn't clearly identify this, but has Ref: CUOTA ANO 2007 on the invoice.  I hope this isn't 2007
- what are the underlying costs incurred, so we can identify whether the costs are genuine community costs or developer costs
- what is the method of allocation, not just theory, but the calculations.  From my point of view I would think that genuine community costs can only be charged to an owner following completion, prior to this the developer has to pick up the costs
- With my american timeshare I am used to getting a set of accounts, against budget with explanations, I would expect the same here

I have e-mailed Sagesa and asked for some explanations and will see what happens.

I have to say that Sagesa have got off to a bad start.  I would of expected to have received papers from Sagesa explaining who they are and outlining how the community charges were going to work, before seeing a bill.  If at some point in the distant future we have more owner held apartments than empty I would think they end up being responsible to the owners.  They need to bear this in mind and provide clear guidance & good accounting

Thea I am sure has some sensible thoughts on this.

Mike

Thanks for the vote of confidence Mike. I have not received an account from Sagesa yet. I assume you received it in England ??  I no longer have an English address and we have no postal service here. Can you say how much it is for ?  As we have all put money into the community fees escrow account I am assuming ( ?? ) that the funds will be deduced from that.  I will telephone Alejandro on Monday morning, see what I can find out, and report back to the forum. 
Perhaps others reading the forum and owning apartments here could telephone and/or email Sagesa for information. Their details once again are:  alejandro_merino@sagesa.net       tlf: 0034 951 271 342

Please don't imagine that just because I live here I will sort this out for all of us.  Each of you needs to address your own concerns to Sagesa.

Thea

Hi Mike & Thea

I see Mike you beat me to it I was going to open just your topic as today I also received an account for the Community Charge of 996.58 Euros for an undisclosed or unclear period.  I have also noted the same points as yourself for concern and tend to agree with Thea that we should all challenge Sagesa as individuals.  As you say no info on what is covered, I would assume that the security guard and lifts should be covered by  Sagesa.  As such are the two subjects in place yet if not the cost should refect this.  Also in the letter from Sagesa they say the payment is to be payed per quarter, is this 996.58 / quarter or a share of this amount?  I also agree with Thea that there should be money in community fees escrow account, I need to dig out past paper work and send my Lawyer an e mail.  As you say Mike to receive such a letter with no other details and asking you to fill in a direct debit for payment makes one more than a little concerned in this day of scams etc. especially as the letter is unsigned and also appears to be a photo copy.  The only info we have so far received on Sagesa as being the "Company" is thanks to info provided by Thea on earlier threads below other wise I would be really concerned about passing over my Bank details.

Regds
Brian

Brian, no the lifts are not working, electricity is still not metered. There appear to be 2 security guards on site at all times.

P.S. -- I am going to make a very hard push for us to have our own community set up now. While the builder is in control Sagesa answers to him, not us and I think we are all tired of it aren't we ???

Hi Thea

Fully agree with your thoughts only problem I can see is we need more people to complete as we need strength in numbers.

Brian

Hi all

We are now in receipt of our community charge quarterly bill.  We feel it is extremely high.  Does anyone know of any comparative costs of other developments?  We are challenging the bill.  If anyone else is doing so, please be kind enough to let us know. or even your thoughts on the costs.

Mike and Carol


This message was last edited by carolhayes4 on 6/30/2008.

I got a response from Sagesa to say that the charge wasn't correct.  I shouldn't have to pay as these were the costs of prior periods, before I completed in April.

Some mistake.  It clearly identifies some weird accounting

Mike

Hi there, 
We have also had our community charge bill - 966.58 euros and we feel it is completely ridiculous if it is for a quarter.  We didn't understand the 'period' it was supposed to cover and we also presumed it was for 2007 as this was the only 'date' on there. We are going to challenge the bill as we understood that we only paid after we had completed which we did in May.  I am glad to hear that Mike has has a positive response from Sagesa.
 I agree with Thea that we are all tired of it and we should set up our own community.  We have people coming out on holiday with no lifts working and there was only one pool clean enough to use when my son was there three weeks ago.

Phil and Lynn

Hi Phil and Lynn
not sure what you mean by only one pool fit for use. There are three pools on the go now, and always have been. The infinity pool over by your building has a leak and is therefore not is use yet.
I ran into Cecilia Cappelen from Sagesa onsite yesterday afternoon. She told me that there is a possibility of our community being set up in September.   Despite phone calls, left messages and emails to Sagesa yesterday, Alex did not phone me back nor did I hear back from my lawyer. I have telephoned again just now and been told that Alex did get my messages but is unavailable to speak at the moment. Needless to say I will carry on ringing until I get an answer.

Thea


This message was last edited by TheaH on 7/1/2008.

Hi all,
                I recevied my community charge for 1047.13, i hope that is for the whole year,
As owners of the properties, we have a say in the running of the community and what services you decide collectively we require. All budgets etc should be raised at the AGM of the community, the date of which we should be notified by Sagesa. If the owners are not happy with the service being given by Sagesa, we could force a change in management by voting at the AGM or calling an EGM but this is something that should be done collectively rather than on an individual basis. 
i have email sagesa for a copy of the following;

q       Statement of our account showing all payments received and due for our property.

q       Copy of the annual fees & charges making up the running costs of the development for 2007 & 2008.

q       Statement of account showing all payments due and paid by all owners for the years 2007 & 2008.

q       Copies of the minutes of the last AGM of the community.

from jimmy (block 21)

 

Hi Jimmy
There is NO COMMUNITY set up yet so there has been no AGM etc. Sagesa answer to Moleon, not to us. So it doesn't matter if we are unhappy with their service to date. You have raised the same questions we have all raised to Sagesa and Moleon. Hopefully we will soon get an answer. If none of us gets a satisfactory answer by the end of the week I will drive over to the Sagesa office in Elviria myself.

Sagesa have already retracted some of the invoices sent out as the builder had provided incorrect information regarding completion dates. Sagesa is aware that they have made a huge error in sending out these accounts

You sign yourself as block 21 but as yet only blocks 1 - 20 are completed. Am I reading it wrong ?

This message was last edited by TheaH on 7/1/2008.