The Bargain Property Experiment

No worries Tinto - glad to hear you found something and good luck with it - just remember who to invite for the housewarming!!!

Im sending you a pm now just to see if you get this one through.

Take it easy 

I viewed 11 of which two took my fancy. One was untouched since the late 70's and like a homage to a very elderly great aunt. However the pricing was bang up to date although the agent told me it was an absolute bargain. However I can do arithmetic and €3694/m2 seemed ludicrous especially when we went back later on our own for a drive around the area (Atalaya) which immediately turned us off as it was covered in graffiti and derelict buildings.
Further I see no advantage whatsoever in being beachside so that ruled that out!

The other is very strange as it has been empty for at least three years and it shows. Also has some very questionable extensions added without them showing on the ecritura.
It has cracks in the surrounding walls due to bizarre excavation works performed by the owner. When I say cracks I mean put your hand in type. I am an engineer so know exactly what I'm dealing with.
Just cosmetic nothing to worry about says the agent whom despite this I actually like.
Money, well the asking price is €5141/m2 based on the escritura meterage, offer €3359/m2 suggest the agent. I return to the UK and spend three days exploring values and prices and offer €1903/m2 which I think is a great offer.

Agent thinks I'm kidding till I use words of one syllable for the avoidance of doubt. Agent is english born and bred by the way! I'm then told the outstanding mortgage is €2970/m2.
I offered my sympathies to the owner via the agent and explained that just because he owed too much on it was no recommendation for me to make the same mistake.

Now today amongst the barrage of €m+ villas that permeated my inbox I discover a new trend.
When I ask where is it so I can view using google earth I'm told and this is verbatim "I cannot send you a Google Earth reference as this would give away its location but I can tell you that it is situated in a prestigious location".

Great, really professional and this is another english born agent.

Obvious answer is to send her a blank cheque and pray I like whatever she buys me. Or ask her if she has an english 'o' level. If she says 'yes' ask her to construct a sentence using two words, first word is 'off'!

Now if any of you agents are really looking for a live client with money too spend but who can count and knows the value of a pound you'll find my wanted ad in the classified section or pm me.

Alternatively go on playing your games and pray there is one born every day because I believe the fundamentals and history strongly indicate your mid market has fallen of a cliff and hasn't yet hit bottom. The recovery is five to ten years out and there will be few buyers prepared unlike me to commit for the long haul.

P.S. SWMBO has just told me of one site with 400 pages of villas in the Costa del Sol all UNDER €1m.

P.P.S SWMBO has just wet herself laughing at this latest new style of economical low cost building of a home. Cheap to decorate I presume!
Look at http://www.crystalshore-properties.com/en/property/id/319449


This message was last edited by DiJit on 1/29/2008.

This message was last edited by DiJit on 1/30/2008.

This message was last edited by DiJit on 1/30/2008.

Is it fair to say you're a bit miffed, DiJit ?

(I enjoyed that, BTW  though I thought you were talking about Atalaya in Turkey initially till I Googled to find where it was in Spain & also wondered if Turkey was actually in the EU yet & using the € !)

Saw this & thought "I like Cyprus & its food" ................................ 

Be interesting to watch the changes as agents struggle to survive.

My predictions are:-
1. Some will start acting for the buyer offering a concierge style service
2. Basic information will start to appear instead of being glossed over. Why do none of you state room sizes?
We get xxxm2 build 3 bed 2 bath 1 reception which may be informative for a dolls house but less so for a real one.
I have the strange urge to know that if I stretch by arms out when I waken in the morning I wont touch both walls simultaneously. Equally is the reception room large enough to permit me to chase my significant other around the furniture?
Petty details perhaps but it helps form a picture before I book those plane tickets. No I don't want freebies either just treated as if I have a brain not just an oik descending into a snake pit.

I know it's only less than 24 hours since my original posting but does the lack of major response indicate either:-
A. Disinterest, customers who needs them?
B. Indicative that agents actually can't read?
C. Joined up sentences is to much to handle?

I feel like the curious boy who pokes a nest of snakes with a stick just to see if they move and are alive.

So Morerosada 12/10 for reading this, even if your geography is slightly suspect. (Turkey is not on my radar screen.)

My geography is slightly suspect ? I don't think so. DiJit. Antalya is indeed in Turkey. It may well be in Spain & other places too but it definitely is in Turkey.

http://www.edenrealestatespain.com/New%20Folder/Brief%20History%20of%20Antalya.htm

Can I suggest D. (my own feelings)

I know it's only less than 24 hours since my original posting but does the lack of major response indicate either:-
A. Disinterest, customers who needs them?
B. Indicative that agents actually can't read?
C. Joined up sentences is to much to handle?

D. No one feels they're going to win if they post, too confrontational !

You just haven't found a decent agent yet.

As for your feelings, I would hope everyone would recognise my tongue in cheek approach and hopefully find it humourous rather than confrontational. Hopefully it's also thought provoking!

Despite my experiences I have not yet declared open season on agents. I have found one who I trust implicitly and am happy to recommend. Pm me if you want an intro. Usual disclaimers etc.

DiJit

Hi All,

So here's one from the new guy - Since DiJit didnt really get any answers;

Are there any bargains to be had in Spain, did we all miss the boat many years ago - and has greed, an over priced market and hype finally killed Spanish property?

Hi & welcome. You've obviously not been following a megga thread on here. Don't get them started in a second thread, PLEASE.

Go check out HERE 

I did in fact get answers through other channels which stand up well to close examination.

I could write a well researched, factually based (and supported) treatise but suspect I would quickly be thrown off here. Indeed Morerosada kindly advised against confrontation.

Personally I welcome healthy debate. Unfortunately agents run for cover in the misguided belief that it will damage the market. My counter argument is if you sell someone an overpriced property the victory is short sighted as the fallout once it becomes public knowledge that they were ripped off, simply destroys any confidence in that market.

Confidence is everything and a market crash in itself will not cause long term damage providing information is truthful and capable of substantiation at all stages. Hype, lies and lack of accurate supporting records simply destroys all credibility.

In short whilst you may fool some of the people some of the time, you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

I could go on and explain in depth but I don't believe anyone is actually interested in reading much of this. It's always easier to bury your head in the sand.

Suffice for me to say they are three market price bands in Costa del Sol. The middle band has stalled and is spinning out of control. Bands 1 & three have slowed considerably. I believe that the market is going to head a lot further south before there is any levelling out. Resale values are going to come back until they start to compare favourably when measured against the cost of a new custombuilt, designed to the owners spec and taste, home. After all a second hand car normally is sold at a discount to a new one.

On the other side of the table sellers may soon start to waken up to the fact that whilst their asking prices reflect vanity and dreams, if they compare today's reality with the price they paid, assuming it was more than five years ago, they may well still be able to sell for profit. It is only the size of their profit that is diminishing at present.
Further if they convert the funds back to sterling the figure achievable may be surprisingly better than expected due to the strengthening euro.

Hope this helps.

This message was last edited by DiJit on 2/12/2008.

Hi DiJit, your comments reflect some of our experiences.  Whilst searching to find a different house near to our exisitng property, we found one that seemed to tick all the boxes that we were looking for.  It was advertised by a large agent on the internet.  We asked for the exact location so that we could look around the area to see if we liked it before we made any decision to view it or not.  Hell no, military secret or what - we could only know where it was if we made an appointment to view the house.  Strangely enough I did find I was articulate enough to string the 2 words together and I guess they must be really pleased that they showed me where to get off eh!

I don't think that having a highly ranked website will necessarily attract very much interest in the current market? Lets face it, Selling property in Spain isn't the most lucrative business to be involved in just now is it? Many of the larger agents are now disappearing, leaving the more qualified and specialised smaller agent to get on with what they do best! Work hard, provide a great personal service and price the goods "if thats possible" at a realistic price?

I thinks its still possible to make a living from selling property in Spain but the successful people will have to identify ways of finding "serious" buyers and matching them with "serious" minded sellers who are willing to sell at a realistic price!!