Bad news in Spain!

maria

for all those not given the legally required BG by the bank, then it would seem the very least the bank could do as the biggest  property owners in Spain, would be to hand over one of their thousands of unsold properties to each of those they have cheated. Yes, the value at the moment would be low and the property probably virtually impossible to sell, but it's better than nothing!

As for your offer of litigation for  e 2,000? each, it's still a hell of a lot of money to risk on a legal system that shows no sign of doing the right thing by those it's already cheated through non implementation of it's own laws, as in BG''s, land rights, court delays etc etc.

A 'no win, no fee'  joint action would show us that you really do believe your own words about success in winning against the banks, and others clearly in the wrong, and I can't belive a group of lawyers couldn't afford to bring such a case without asking for more money from those who have wasted so much time and money already just trying to get back what is rightfully theirs. How would you look if your case failed and we had paid  you thousands of Euro's?  It could well look like more exploitation from lawyers on those already treated so badly by the system?

I'm afraid your 'hope' for justice just isn't enough. We need to know that we can trust those in the position to bring justice to those clearly wronged will do their job?. How many of us have that trust, based on personal experience?.  What is the use in winning a case if you still don't get your money returned?

goodstich:

I am open to discuss on fees if you email to me privately. You can find our email address in our website.

Best wishes,

MAria

maria

thanks for inviting me to discuss fees, but my point is that we have all paid more than enough fees to lawyers, in the 'hope' of obtaining justice from the system that has failed us so badly.  We need to know that the government bodies responsible for serving justice on those it's failed will act in favour of those it's failed. If you or a syndicate of lawyers are truly confident of justice, then why the need to charge before sentence is passed in this instance?. We fully understand the financial implications and will gladly pay our fees out of a satisfactory and paid up claim against those clearly in the wrong who have cheated us. If you are not confident of a win, and not prepared to even risk a short term investment  of your own money, then why would you ask us to do the same?

Dear All,

whatever the motive for starting the thread, many many thanks.

For me there has been some bewitchingly lucid posts from people I can only respect as more than equals.

As to the "sillies" I appreciate that they cannot help it, they even accuse me of  despoiling the success stories which I greatly enjoy and am keen to see more of.

I am pleased to note that Bob has responded on the positive side of his personality split.

The big problem is Colin, our successful property speculator.

He is normally boastful,  but should he actually be giving legal advice that so clearly contradicts Maria???????

He, with Justin leading him, would not touch "Off-Plan in Spain with the proverbial bargepole, yet wishes to pontificate in telling those of us who have been caught how we should behave.

The sugestion that this old soldier should have completed on something different to the very lavish and expensive specification ordered, is to my mind quite bizarre, especially from a renowned "shrewdy" who never buys anything he cannot see.

It is difficult to imagine anything more odd.

In any case there was no guaranteed mortgage already in place for all purchasers, it was just another lie in the many of the sales pitch and what the lawyers should have discovered before signing any contract on my behalf in their native language.

Given Colin's scenario as being right, how many successful "class actions" have there been to date??????

The negotiated attempt recorded here was hardly to be recommended since it was a "take it or leave it" offer before threatened liquidation.

Well Maria can you put Techno straight or is his lawyer correct, many people received this advice and completed against their will.

As to fees, I have saved £2,000 but as Goodstich says, it is now a lot of money.

Regards

Norman

This message was last edited by normansands on 16/06/2010.

Maria,

I think this is important enough to deserve a comment.

Well Maria can you put Techno straight or is his lawyer correct, many people received this advice and completed against their will.

Regards

Norman

 Dear All,

I regret that there has been no challenge from Maria in respect to Techno's legal advice.

I appreciate that she may be very busy but so many people heeded this advice and completed on unsatisfactory properties that it should be clarified so I will try a pm.

Recent informative posts have disclosed that a lot of the bad news from Spain relates to the dismal performance of the £ and the British Consulate, hardly Spain's fault.

Regards

Norman

 Dear Norman:

Please let me know what you need legal clarification about. I will be pleased to clarify... if I can.

Best wishes,

Maria

 Dear Maria,

it was Techno's post and opinion that contradicted your view that "all that is promised must be provided and on reasonable time"

to which he claimed had lawyer's backing on this thread as follows..........

"If the development was not completed within the defined timescales of the original contract (even if it was subsequently completed), theDeveloper is in breach of contract (irrespective of specification issues). All lawyers I'm aware of would look at it that way, including the EOS Superstar Lawyer on this site."

I'm not going to argue about legal interpretation, but:

Late build completion is not breach of contract, as there will be a penalty clause put into the contract should the build not complete on time. Subsequently the promoter should be ordered to pay compensation to the purchaser, but the purchaser must pay what they have agreed in the initial contract.

If the promoter is late on completion, and an offer of compensation, if one is made, and not accepted then you are still required to pay what you have agreed and then instigate legal action.

Not paying the final installment for the completed property, whether late or not, is breach of contract.

All lawyers I'm aware of will say "that is the way a Judge will look at it!" including a lawyer I was speaking to some considerable time ago, and I asked this specific question.

Publicity is part of the contract. Unless otherwise clearly specified and agreeg by consumer, all included in publicity needs to be provided with the unit.

A differnt thing is not against my opinion, is against the opinion of the Supreme Court since 1977 and subsequent Consumers regulations.

normansands

I feel very strongly that in all these cases where developers or banks have broken the law, that it's up to the law makers to uphold the law, not for those cheated to have to face years of litigation to prove what they know and the guilty parties know, and the law makers know........ that they have been in the right all the way along!!   It's abuse of human rights by any other name.

And presumably uphold the law in a timely manner???????? Where does upholding the law begin and end? Is there no legal time limit on upholding the law in Spain? Is there no recourse for abusive delays?

ads

yes, good point. Not much use the law being upheld if it still takes years for those cheated to get their money back. There needs to be a time limit or the guilty party face harsh penalties that the cheated person would gain from. Hopefully this measure would deter the guilty parties from wrong doing in the first place in future. The current system clearly works against those in the right, and just how wrong is that!!!

Dear All,

so is Techno right???????????

if the developer "breaks" the contract the purchaser has to chase him through the courts and suffer everything that entails and in the meantime has to complete on something he doesn't want.

if the purchaser fails to complete for whatever reason the developer keeps the deposit, no questions asked and then may pursue the purchaser through the courts for more.

if that is Spain's idea of consumer protection and contract law it is no wonder all informed sources say do not touch off-plan in Spain at any price.

Surely this cannot be right Maria?

Regards

Norman

Norman Maria has answered your question earlier.

Publicity is part of the contract.

If you have been wronged take action through the courts.

simples

Norman, Techno didn't say that a purchaser "in the meantime has to complete on something he doesn't want" should they be of the opinion that a developer has not provided what was contracted for.  He stated that many chose to complete in order that they, at the end of the day, had someone 'concrete' in their hands - rather than nothing at all and the possibility of losing their deposit.  It wasn't his 'advice' to anybody to follow that course of action, just a remark that many chose that route and then to take action after completion.

For what it's worth, I think that had we been in a situation where our apartment was not what we had contracted to purchase, we too would have chosen not to complete.   But then there are many people, with different circumstances, who make alternative choices.

I believe it would be a very personal decision, based on many differentials, as to which course of action you would take.  But, ultimately, action you must take and not just write it off as many, many people have done!!  (as we well know!!)

 Edited to say:  We also know many, many people have spent years chasing legal action too!  Just so I don't get my head bitten off yet again - although I'm sure it won't make any difference!!

 Thank you both but.............

with the life savings gone and no "no win no fee" available where does the money come from to begin the fight and further finance it as Goodstich has done to no avail, with him still working and earning, not relying just on a pension.

Techno was definite quoting both lawyer and judge's opinion and reinforcing what many had been told by many other lawyers.

As I understand it Goodstich was even advised to complete on a different half size property just to get something for his money and avoid complete loss.

Some choice????????????

Pitby good advice is valued always.

Thanks again

Norman

Norman, I truly wish I could offer good advice to you .... alas I can't, but that doesn't prevent me from hoping you do attain satisfaction in your case, whatever action you take.

Doesn't mean I agree with all your posts though!!  

 Thank you Jan if I may.

I realise we don't agree to some extent and I am thick skinned, silly insults have absolutely no effect whatsoever, I just pity the sick minds that spout them.

The huge mystery to me however is why these mundane urbanisations are accepted by anyone at all as holiday complexes.

Lots of them would not even make a good council estate to my mind, but I seem to be almost a lone voice, on the forum anyway.

Thanks again

Norman

norman said

''As I understand it Goodstich was even advised to complete on a different half size property just to get something for his money and avoid complete loss.

Some choice????????????''

That is indeed the 'no win' situation we were faced with and are still fighting 8 years later.  Shame on Spain for having a system that makes it near impossible to get your money back,  even when you have won your case in court after many years fighting a very clear case of abuse. Peteha's comments about taking action through the courts shows how little some people understand about the system.

Goodstitch

if you are such an expert how come you lost your money.

Some people are having their deposits returned through the court.

Maybe they have stronger cases or better lawyers than the others.

As Ive suggested focus your attention on the winners

analyse their results

you may learn something to your advantage

constant moaning wont get you back one penny