Build Quality?

Yes Ads I whole heartedly agree but there are other persons i.e. Lawyers who also bear some responsibility in all of this.

When we purchase a property in the UK, even though we speak the language and are familiar with the buying proceedure we still engage a solicitor to ensure everything is done correctly, according to the law ! !

Similarly, when we began the purchase of the Spanish property we did exactly the same and engaged a Spanish lawyer, as we did not speak the language and we were not familiar with the buying proceedure.  It was vital that this "professional person" ensured everything was done correctly, according to the law ! !

Unfortunetaly this person was definitely not an independant lawyer working on our behalf, he never informed us about Bank Guarantees, special bank accounts, or that we were allowed to cancel due to delays. ( Our Block of apartments were never built ) Basically he took 50% of his fees up front, then all he did was forwarded all our payments to Aifos, and that was it.

There has been some problems mentioned in the press with regard to "scammers" passing themselves off as Spanish lawyers etc. well how do you differentiate between the "good and the bad " they each take your money, do nothing for it, and we are unable to obtain a refund.

Dear All,

thank you for the sensible posts, would that they were all sensible.

Ads you have excelled on two threads.

Is it Roy?, I do not wish to bandy qualifications and experience with you and respect your in depth knowledge of the Spanish scene, plus the work you are doing, but to me that kitchen is unsafe and not fit for purpose, nor should it have been certificated.

You have to ask yourself would you certificate and use it as is? I obviously would not.

As to mortgages, motives and finance. It is openly stated that I am at an age where inheritance is and was my main concern. I was to put my life savings into a luxury holiday complex not a residential second home for holiday or other use. Not it at all, even on holiday I do not wish to lodge with working neighbours of any nationality. That just is not a holiday complex.

Techno is happy with his purchase but was not confident enough to buy off-plan, he proudly shows us his kitchen but thinks I should have accepted mine that is in no way comparable to his and pay a lot more for it.. Strange logic methinks.

Jerry we have clashed before and will never agree, had I been in any way interested in sub standard residential accommodation in the area and paid the correct market price at the time £70,000 we could have worked together to make the best of things and improved them. You have chosen to do this regardless of price paid and I respect your work but nevertheless you have let yourself and others down, you have been the fodder which proves the developer's case. He has made millions out of..................well lets face it "suckers".

You may have further reserves or be young enough to make up the very substantial losses. I am not, unless some one gives me another life my life savings are gone.

Sorry but as Ads says some people will stand up for their rights some will not, some will walk away from any sort of confrontation. I will not whilst I can still stand.

Regards

Norman

There are a few different views of the kitchen issue where is can be arguments are

• Does it meet specification, is there any reference document that shows for example on the drawings with the contract the position od the basin hob sockets etc, can the developer produce a drawing

• It is jiust a case of bad design, you typically never put a fridge next to a cooker, a basin close to a hob but it doesn´t necessarly mean that it is not fit for purpose, especilly if the developer accepts the defect and agrees to correct it, doesn´t take too much work to re-fit a kitchen. Also was there a show house to reference

• The COH is a check on the electrical instllations, are the electrics and gas all certificated with bolletins, and that the installation matches the drawings

In the case of this kitchen we certainly would list the issues howvever we had a similar case on another development where the design was poor and there was no drawer pack, they argued against completion on the basis that it was not fit for purpose and lost, the builder simply agreed to change the kitchen, after completion, and did the works toa good standard 

Dear Belucky,

guess who told them all that they had no chance, no protection etc. etc. etc. of course their "own" lawyer but working for the developer.

How criminal is that?

Roy tells us that there are now some limited rights, the brochure may be clear on what luxury is and what it provides but the contract does not, Maria says the brochure and all sales literature is automatically part of the contract but others disagree including all the thousands of client paid lawyers working for developers.

It sounds like Jerry's class action has collapsed, so much for Techno's suggestion.

You are right of course every single one of these scams were facilitated by the lawyers and where are judges selected from???

What hope?

How can we get Ads elected tothe Spanish Government?

Regards

Norman

Dear Roy,

the main point is of course that the carcase is at risk of fire from the hob, it is unsafe not just bad design.

Regards

Norman

You as always with these things need a qualified view as the regulations vary by region plus hobs are designed to operate safely fitted inside worktops

Also what does the developer say when you have advised them about the issues in the kitchen, have you given them a specific list of queries, have you snagged the property or just advised that you will not complete

"Techno is happy with his purchase but was not confident enough to buy off-plan"

Nope! Wrong again! It was a case of not stupid enough to buy off-plan or not rich enough! You take your pick!

When you buy "key ready" then you are getting what you agreed to pay for, as you were standing in it, seeing exactly what you were getting, before you purchased it! Also, you can have the property surveyed before you buy it, and that way you can check on the build quality before you buy!

I have always advocated that buying off-plan is a risky business and best left to those who can afford to loose money!

And anyone can search back in the forum and find evidence to support that!

"he proudly shows us his kitchen but thinks I should have accepted mine that is in no way comparable to his and pay a lot more for it.. Strange logic methinks."

When did I ever say that you should have accepted it?

Again, anyone want to search back on the forum for that?

I have always said that if I, or if anyone else, where in the same situation as you, then I would have completed and gone to court, or paid the money into a notarised account, and then let the courts sort it out!

I would never have left myself in a situation that, dependent on the terms and conditions of the purchase contract, whereby it would be deemed that I was in breach of contract! Thus have to wait for many years without my money and very little chance of getting it back!

I am not the only person who advocates this!

As I said in the post that Morerosado found:

Not completing will result in you loosing everything, and to advocate to others that they do the same is insidious to say the least!

And I stick by that statement!

@Sandra,

"But perhaps, as I have suspected for some time, it is the hot weather and a surfeit of cervezas  that brings on these 'internet forum' outbursts and episodes of forgetfulness."

One could say the same about you!

" One could say the same about you!"

One could, but one would be totally wrong. 

One does wonder why Justin so condones your (as I've said before) high handed   and bullying attitude towards the members who , for years, he has tried so hard to attract. Must they all agree with you??

@Sandra,

"One does wonder why Justin so condones your (as I've said before) high handed   and bullying attitude towards the members who , for years, he has tried so hard to attract."

I think you will find that Justin neither condones nor condemns my responses, or my attitude, as you call it, towards some posters who like nothing better to do than belittle those, like myself, who actually try to help each other out.

"Must they all agree with you??"

No! And quite often other posters do not, however at least they are civilized in their responses and are actually to do with the topic at hand!

I, and others, do not like Normans attitude towards those that he calls the 'sillies' and 'spinners' when I, and they, are not! All we have tried to do is compare notes, opinions and facts, and then discuss them in a civilised, adult manner without the need for condescending remarks!

I don't like your attitude towards myself, and others, as it smacks of high handiness and a holly than thou attitude. I therefore retort in a way that defends myself and my position with regards to the actual posts and threads that matter to me! Most thankfully, none of yours fall into the latter category!

 Oh dear!!!

@Jerry,

"I have been reluctant to post here because any comment is taken as spin."

I know exactly how you feel!

"I completed in CDS."

May I enquire where you completed?

"Build quality is fair, the apartment is small and the initial site finish was poor. However, we completed because we realised that the off plan contract was not detailed enough to sustain a legal challenge and we did not wish to lose our deposit."

So you also realised that purchase contracts, especially those for off-plan properties, are not as straight forward as some would have you believe. What would have happened had you not completed, as Norman advocates! I assume you would have lost everything and not have a leg to stand on?

@Wend691,

"Techno ...... you have a lovely pad!"

Thank you.

@Sandra,

"Oh dear!!!"

I rest my case, with unmitigated ease!

Are you happy with the build quality of the property you own in Spain?

@Norman,

"It sounds like Jerry's class action has collapsed, so much for Techno's suggestion."

I take it then you know Jerry and his plight?

I, on the other hand, do not!

However, it does sound from what you are saying that Jerry went down one of the routes that I, and others on this forum, have advocated!

If therefore Jerry's 'class action has collapsed' as you say, then what chance have the you of winning! And yet you advocate that others do the same as you have done!

At least Jerry has a property and has not lost everything, and yet you have not and still advocate for people to follow your advice!

As I said earlier, that is quite literally insidious!

To elaborate.....................................

'Oh dear , I now see the problem that Justin has and the reason so many no longer post on here'

There seemed to be some useful infomation here but I am sorry, and I hope other people agree that these exchanges are pretty pointless,

I believe that perhaps Sandra you enjoy winding people up a little too much and TechNoape you seem to be biting too much 

Perhaps the thread should return to its main purpose the exchange of information, not into a slanging match, and nothing is being gained or resolved in these exchanges

The TRUTH is out there somewhere but I am sure that it ll makes enjoyable reading for some people

@Sandra,

'Oh dear , I now see the problem that Justin has and the reason so many no longer post on here'

Ah! I see you have finally looked in the mirror then!

You still have not answered my question, which I'm sure other posters are now very inquisitive as to the answer!

@inspectahomespain,

I agree! However I will not stand idly by why people try and destroy what this forum stands for!

I have been posting on here a long time, written articles, advertise and communicate with Justin on a regular basis

I am seen as being a very reasonable and sensible contributor, and regularly disagree with other posters,  but in that case I am sorry TechNoape you are doing a pretty good job at destroying what forum stands for with your unecessary and personal comments about people and keeping this thread going

Count to 10 and think

Norman posts a thread it sits for ages i reply a related comment then all the bitches come to play

Whats wrong with you people grow up for f----s sake

Rod

@rod and davell,

There is much more going on here than meets the eye!

We were talking about build quality.

"Try building bridges before it is too late."

Ah! Now that would be talking build quality! lol

@inspectahomespain,

I have been a member of this forum for five years now and am considered by many to be a very reasonable and sensible contributor, and also sometime disagree with other posters.

However tonight I lost my cool! And I apologise to everyone, especially Justin, for doing so!

Norman you were sold a pig in a poke 400k for that shoe box i hope you can still visit the CDS and enjoy all the area has to offer

I hope those robbing Ba-----ds suffer as a result of making peoples lives a misery

If you remember i was the one that firstly welcomed you back and i think you are calling me Roy and my name is Rod just for the record

And if you want to stay at my place you can have a 20% discount.

Rod

www.ournextholiday.co.uk

Dear All,

thank you all for the sensible posts, but I think sense goes out of the window when one is told they should have completed on a property contract when the property was not remotely like the description given to you in your native language.

In addition it did not and would not now pass survey, which of course should be explicit in any contract, whatever language it is written in.

The reasons why some completed at Casares is a mystery to me, it may have been the "easy money scenario", it may have been the prospects of "flipping", the Dysney rumours, the Malaga Airport expansion or just the general world optimism. It may have even been the multitude of "flippers" and "spinners" keen to work up the market. There was at the time a very heady optimism for "investment growth".

What I find extraordinary is a certain person's refusal to take on board what you tell him, despite the number of times I have explained my position, that of being completely defrauded and duped by the lawyer as head of the syndicate of corruption. Despite my age and appearance I was told by the syndicate that each and every property had a mortgage on it, already in place and available for every purchaser. Indeed the mortgage terms were supposed to be especially favourable in cost etc.

Some have said my description of the lawyer as insane is a "bit strong" when he exchanged contracts with no finance in place.

You be the judge what description fits?

However you describe it there was never any question of my being in a position to complete without further corruption, such as falsifying my age on mortgage documents etc. Of course easily within the scope of a lawyer criminal but of course not acceptable to me.

Though professionally multi-qualified, I have been retired for some good time, nevertheless I am yet to hear of a hob that can be fitted safely hard up against a wooden carcase.

Perhaps Jerry would be good enough to update us on the class action at Casares.

I understand that Maria is active there and may have some information.

I know people that have very good holidays in tents and caravans, some even in Motorhomes. It even gives the ability to move away from nuisance neighbours and their balconey dogs. Not remotely like my proposed holiday complex and not remotely as expensive.

I have had pms from english professional builders who have condemned the build quality at Casares and admitted shame that they were persuaded to complete.

Jerry says it is "fair" which I assume is somewhere between good and bad, I saw nothing I could describe as "fair", Techno also says he knows people who are happy with it. I would be interested in seeing any surveys that were done, perhaps even Jerry's.

Or perhaps Roy has been active there?

All good information if available.

Regards

Norman