How bad has it been in Spain

I have just returned from Spain, where we were looking for a smallholding for my son, who wants to move to Spain.  It was jolly cold in Mora d'Ebre (on River Ebre in southern Catalunia) and I certainly could not live there without having the heating on during winter evenings. Having a shower in the morning was an ordeal as it was so cold, altough there was an electric radiator (not very efficient) in the bathroom.  I really don't see why British pensioners who have moved to Spain should not keep the WFA; after all they have paid for their pensions over many years.  They certainly need heating in winter, at least in inland Spain, although it may be sunny during the day.  Sue, thanks for your informative and sensible comments.  Will look your book up - not that I plan to retire to Spain, but probably will be spending some time in winter over there, if my son settles in Spain.

The wfa is a paid for in the past perk  and silly old Norman thinks its only those in the uk now that have paid for it.  What is his problem?

We have to live through the hot months of July and August without any allowance from sad Norman. We need a sca from him, summer cooling allowance that is  Norman so come on old man lets be fair

It amuses me the way folk like to attack Norman for daring to disturb their tranquility by suggesting that they shouldn't get this payment.  It's the clinging together of people in the same boat seeking comfort in numbers when threatened.  But the reality is that no-one outside of the group has the slightest sympathy for you. 

In my opinion, no-one - not expats and not Norman - should get the WFA.  It is a scandalous waste of money when Libraries, elderly care homes and Youth centres are closing because of central government cuts of local authority funding.  Genuinely needy people get the cold weather payment - but only when it's cold.  None of the expats whingeing on this thread need WFA.  All of them will gladly take it and no-one can argue with that when the rules permit it.  But can anyone honestly claim that they would repatriate to the UK if WFA were taken away from them?  Of course not. 

And as for the nonsense that you worked all your life and paid taxes so now you've earned payback, it is pretty clear that the basic principles of taxation are not among your favourite reading topics.  The taxes you paid when you were working were spent at the same time - on you - on roads, hospitals, schools, defence and all the other stuff that delivered the quality of life you enjoyed.  And you overspent by zillions of trillions of billions of pounds which is why we've got the present mess.  So you still owe the interest on your overspending that today's taxpayers are burdened with thanks to your profligacy.

As someone who doesn't get the wfa, or anything else for that matter , I still disagree. If it's available in the UK & you are entitled then you  can take it with you anywhere you want. End of story. Same applies to freezing pensions to people who go to countries like Canada & Australia. As for this  statment ;    

" The taxes you paid when you were working were spent at the same time - on you - on roads, hospitals, schools, defence and all the other stuff that delivered the quality of life you enjoyed.  And you overspent by zillions of trillions of billions of pounds which is why we've got the present mess.  So you still owe the interest on your overspending that today's taxpayers are burdened with thanks to your profligacy." 

I've no problem with what was spent on me & others but have a serious problem on the amount that was & is spent on benefits to people who've never worked , illegal immigrants, asylum seekers, etc , etc. Also the people who live & work in the UK whilst paying no tax. As far as I'm concerned the benefits should never have been started & personally I'd stop the lot tomorrow. Giving benefits to people is like giving food & water to people in drought regions without helping them to support themselves. They become dependant on them & expect them. The population goes up & more need food & water. Exactly the same as giving benefits in the UK , & in reality the only people unaffected by the current crisis are those on benefits & they are also the only people who , in reality, can afford to keep having children as the taxpaying general public are footing the bill. So if there's not enough to pay the people who are paying to support the scroungers then that's where the cuts need to be made.

Dear All,

Jek is of course spot on.

the hypocrisy is amazing.

there are of course many anomalies in any system and much should be changed.

similar arguments from council house tenants who have been supported all of their lives are that they have paid far more in rent than the property is worth and many times more than it cost...................they conveniently ignore the fact that they have never, ever kept pace with the interest payments.

so with pensioners they claim that they have paid more than enough tax for all their working lives so should not be taxed on receipt.................again ignoring that they received tax relief on every contribution ever made.

we even used to get tax relief on our mortgage interest payments............hard to believe now.

every wrongdoer wants mitigation for his/her previous good behaviour.

the ex-pat happy circumstances came home to me today with the sun, it came early and stayed warm, the ch thermostat clicked off before the time clock which bodes well for the evening and the gas consumption. I have of course dressed accordingly and plan to venture outside.

the happy runaways will no doubt continue their profligacy with their uninsulated houses in the sun wasting their WFAs from dusk onwards.

Gus is of course wrong in claiming that all benefits should be paid - end of story - but then claiming that some should not.

Us mortals need some consistency.

Regards

Norman

Jek is of course not spot on.

Norman is just Norman.

Maybe if there weren't so many scroungers and spongers in the UK then the rest of us wouldn't feel quite so strongly about receiving a bit back for ourselves after having paid tax for many years at 40% and not appearinig to get much back in return.

If everybody in society did their fair share and we cared for those who truly are unable to contribute then I would have no problem giving up certain allowances if the country genuinely could not afford it.

By the way, I'm not a pensioner and I receive no allowances.

 I think Jek maybe Normans Alter Ego?

The problem I have with benefits is that they are often universal i.e. you get them whether you need them or not.

Someone earlier mentioned Child Benefit being discontinued for higher rate tax payers...as one of those myself, I absolutely agreed with that. All the while my kids were growing up, the Govt kept throwing this money at me whichwas nice but I didn't NEED.....I did try at one point to cancel the payments but  that just freaked out the DSS people, so we had to give up and in the end I saw it as an offset to the phenomenal amounts of tax I was paying...but would have given it up in a heartbeat if I was allowed to

I remember Michael Parkinson trying to get the Govt to take back his wfa but like me came up against an unbelieving burocracy.......just think of all the rich Celebrities that get the wfa, Parky, Billy Connolly, David attenborough, Michael aspel..and so on...utter madness.

My personal opinion is that ALL benefits should be means tested but as long as you qualified on that score, you should still get the wfa in Spain

Georgia - "I think ........" but no supporting evidence.  Just an unsubstantiated assertion   

Oh God!

Another one of those...

"Someone lays the charges and then people jump to hit the detonator!"

I am 43 years old, and they way I look at it I will probably never receive a pension, leave alone the Winter Fuel Payment.

Are we going to argue... again... on this forum... over who should have what and why?

If you lot want to do so, then good for you!

I on the other hand have much better things to do...like get on with my life... and think that  this constant bickering about who deserves what, usually started by the same people for reasons I cannot understand, is disruptive to this forum to say the very least, as it degenerates into a massive slanging match!

And then the EOS team end up removing the thread!

In the mean time , what is gained from all of this.... nothing! 

Well then why don't you just get on with your life instead of joining in with "this lot" as you condescendingly label us.

Then what do you do? You join in! haha

"I am 43 years old, and they way I look at it I will probably never receive a pension, leave alone the Winter Fuel Payment."

Just let people talk about what they want to talk about. I haven't seen much slanging or bickering so far until you started calling this group of people "you lot".

If this thread does degenerate I reckon we will all know who started the slide...

And there was me thinking we were debating not arguing . Silly me !!!!!

Well said, Floella!  OK, there have been a few digs on here, and I don't particularly like being referred to as a "wrongdoer" by Norman, as I haven't claimed anything dishonestly,  I was allowed to claim my WFA in the UK, and after we moved to Spain it was still paid to me as the rules say I am still entitled to it.  However I have seen far worse threads on EOS and the debate has been pretty civilised so far......

Sue

I must appogise for bringing the uk down to its knees, when I was living on rations during the world war, was that when I cost the country so much. We never had any wfa then even when the bombs destroyed most of what we had.No one went about saying that so and so should not have this or the other, we were grateful to be still about I think our Norman must have gone through all that the same as I did.I don't think the manuel worker could ever bring the country to its knees. Thatcher proved that. sacked all the miners  car workers  steel workers imported most manufactured goods built up the finance secter. Now tell me who brought the country down,don't say Brown did it as the rest of the world is in the same boat. Was it not the us finance and the city that came down bringing all with it,and you go on about the wfa   lol

 I agree with some posters on here about benefits.

I'm a very fortunate person, earning well into six figures and am ex-colleague (same salary band) who I like to rib, tried to wind me up about  my Spanish investment (penthouse at Arenal Golf, Arroyo-de-la-Miel) and how I shoudl have invested in GOLD.  Like I could enjoy a nice long weekend a month sunbathing on a gold ingot or two.  But then came the cruncher.  He boasted about how he chose to invest his 'CHILD ALLOWANCE' on gold, etc, etc.  I promptly reminded him that said benefit was for the ongoing support of his offspring but I guess he didn't get it.   £ 128k+ a year and money from the tax payer to invest in gold.  Tell me I'm wrong!!!  Even if he is on a sh1t rate ;-)

Oh dear, it looks like good old Norm has managed to wind everyone again !!  What has happened to the art of good old fashioned banter, and agree to disagree.  Everyones circumstances are different and should be respected for that. I am not to proud to say that at this moment in time due to various unfortunate situations I am indeed skint and living on a limited budget which is not funded by the UK government !!   It's not just an expat thing either, many of our Spanish neighbours are in the same boat, crops that used to provide a living for the whole family are now only worth peanuts. Unemployment benifit is only for a maximum of two years, after that you have to rely on family support. Having said that although times are tough for many people, you just have to adjust to suit your own personal circumstances and get on with living your life whether it be with or without pension funds. Not everyone has had the opportunity to mass their own personal fortune to live on for the rest of their lives,  I am not putting these fortunate few down, good on them, however those that rely on state pensions to survive should not be made to feel like scroungers either !!   The scroungers are the benifit cheats who have not done a day's work in their life, not those that have contributed to the UK walfare state for 40 plus years, and still continue pay taxes !! 

The UK should come with a warning.  BEWARE LIVING IN THE UK CAN SERIOUSLY EFFECT YOUR SENSE OF HUMOR

@patman,

"Just let people talk about what they want to talk about."

Then why not let me do the same!

@floella,

"And there was me thinking we were debating not arguing."

Debate or debating is a formal method of interactive and representational argument.

@Pitby,

"Norman generally likes to spark more of an argument than a debate - just look back in all the threads he has every posted on or initiated!! This one included."

Agreed!

@Toddie,

Well said!

"The scroungers are the benifit cheats who have not done a day's work in their life, not those that have contributed to the UK walfare state for 40 plus years, and still continue pay taxes !!"

Spot on!

"The UK should come with a warning.  BEWARE LIVING IN THE UK CAN SERIOUSLY EFFECT YOUR SENSE OF HUMOR"

Dear All,

thank you everyone for your comments, though I can see little sense in Techno's, unless he is telling us that he should be allowed latitude to interpose as he is dying of something or other.

I don't understand why Sue would label herself as one of the world's wrongdoers, I certainly would not and hope I did not infer it.

Pitby is Pitby and an enthusiast that rather likes to gloss over the downside somewhat.

Jek is quite right over tax and benefits but he like I comes up against this bizarre idea that your past payments have somehow been ring fenced and held in an account for you to draw on later. As he says past payments are long gone and leave you with no credits to claim, but I am sure those on benefit at the time were grateful and you did pay for a few wars.

It is good to hear from the hugely privileged higher rate tax payers who pay more than most, though they would pay much less if they could get off PAYE. I remember there was some advantage in calling yourself a company at one stage.

The fact remains that WFA is a stupid anomaly that should be scrapped for all, most especially the sun-seekers.

I wonder what the admin costs are?

Though there is of course many other anomalies no doubt.

But of course no matter how you argue or debate two wrongs will never make a right - end of story as Gus would say.

Our normal grey climate has returned today and the boiler roared on until the time clock intervened.

Regards

Norman

Know the feeling Norm,  my old boiler has just intervened too,  told me to get off my backside and get a life outside of this damn computer, so I must bid you farewell for now and hope to catch up again in the near future. Hope the weather perks up for you before your WFA runs out.

p.s  can you come up with a topic with a bit more scope next, this one has been done to  death over the past few years, getting a bit boring and silllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly now    !!

Keep smiling       

bye    for now