185 Million Euros in off plan deposits lost on just five developments. Want to add yours?

If only life were simple Fazarelli.

I suspect there are far too many who now regard the Spanish justice system and the scant way it fails to protect consumers as a major stumbling block to reinvest in Spain. The Spanish Government will have to address the injustices and demonstrate respect for the rule of law, to better regulate the Banks, to establish a fair compensation structure for those ultimately compromised by the failure to enforce judgements according to the rule of law, etc etc, before many would ever be willing to reinvest in Spain.

And that is only part of the equation.... the tax system that appears far too unpredicatable like shifting sand, the political wranglings within the different levels of government, the retrospective changes in law that result in further compromising the innocent investor, oh all too many aspects that leaves a potential investor in fear of what will happen next (be it at local, regional or Governmental level), all without adequate protection from within a failing justice system, leads to only one sad conclusion which is BUYER BEWARE.   

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-the-spanish-property-roadshow-open-letter-to-davi.html

http://www.bankguaranteesinspain.com/

Missing Millions

Lets keep it going for a half a billion, and some. It's good to see Aifos appearing more than once although these figures are small change to him. Thanks to you all, we all know there are billions more that have been stolen so keep those thinking caps handy.

Rambi.

.

Rambi,

I would suggest the Hacienda Marina Total of  1,000,000 is in fact much higher. We are in an identical situation to belucky with the Los Conchas block that was never built. My best guess is that most people in this block put similar and more deposti to us down of around 75,000 euros. I am guessing around maybe 30 to 50. Conservatively I would estimate around 2.5 million would be more realistic. This is to say nothing of course of the other depostis in the other blocks that Aifos have taken. I would round it out to about 3million.

Of course Aifos have done this to people on many other developments as we know. It would not surprise me in the least if the real figures that Aifos alone have take in off plan deposits and never built was something in the region of 150 million euros at least.  We will of course never know the real figures but you are doing a great job in at least attempting to do some sort of estimates.

I see Palmera Properties does not feature yet either. Many Uk residents as we know have been affected by their activities.

I think the problem may be that many people have tried to move on with their lives and simply written off these millions hence you are not getting enough feedback from all those affected as yet.

I too wish I could blot out this horrible part of my financial life. The effect of course is not just financial but the stress and health part of it. as we all  well know.  If  we are to believe in moral values and the rule of law I wonder how far down the list of moral crimes what is happening in Spain is ? After all at least when you are burgled and robbed in the Uk its for a relatively small amount and apart from the stress involved of course you are at least compenstated quite quickly by your insurance. No chance of that so far for the vast majoirty of us robbed so far in Spain. 

It really is quite breathtaking when you evaluate the scale of the fraud that the Spanish goverment has allowed to happen over the last 10 years or so and just how many people have been ruined and livesavings stolen etc etc. The indifference and uselessness of our own British government as well is very upsetting as well on this issue.  Its hard to see the American government putting up with this. I am pretty sure that had many hundreds of USA  citizens been afffected by this it would have been a case of Spanish assets being frozen in the  USA and demands for extradition of various corrupt develepers being made in to stand trial in USA courts .

I know full well this has been covered in a far better way than me by many other contributors such as Ads/Goodstich etc etc.

Keep up the good work !

This message was last edited by johnmfranci5 on 06/07/2011.

This message was last edited by johnmfranci5 on 06/07/2011.

This message was last edited by johnmfranci5 on 06/07/2011.

This message was last edited by johnmfranci5 on 06/07/2011.

This message was last edited by johnmfranci5 on 06/07/2011.

This message was last edited by johnmfranci5 on 06/07/2011.

Valle rosario golf @ vilenueva -  Agent Palmera & Aifos promoted also - Builder grupo mirador

On an earlier forum a french guy put a deposit down on 4 off plans!!

I lost approx £25k

Still bought a house in Spain though must be glutton for punishment - Had dreams of doing a couple of months in spain during the winter  - But if i could sell it on and not lose too much I would, and still come to Spain but rent, as I do like coming here

We have to stress to even those who have moved on in their lives to present their evidence to the petitions. It has become apparent that the Spanish Government will never self correct unless pressure is brought to bear upon them and we depend upon firm evidence to substantiate our claims. Please do not lose sight of the fact that we depend upon everyone to pass on the details of the petitions. There is no room for apathy now. 

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stop-the-spanish-property-roadshow-open-letter-to-davi.html

http://www.bankguaranteesinspain.com/

We were buying in amarion  111 through palmera properties they were the principal agents for this development. I know that all the appartments were sold and I don't think we had the bg as the agent said it was not altogether neccessary

Thanks for the input all of you,

I'll start with johnmfranci5

Thanks, this is what I was hoping for and I shall adjust my figures accordingly. I agree with you about Aifos and I would love to add 150,000,000 € to my figures but I would need someone with more knowledge and some plausible evidence before I dare.When I started this I had never heard of Aifos but after ploughing through so many Forums and news reports it is obvious that the man is responsible for the theft of many millions.

I think you are right many people have moved on and written their cash off and probably don't read the forums because they never had them when it happened to them and if they could it would just be another painful reminder. Your comments remind me of the saying that each generation thinks it discovered sex. We are all looking at this as if it were a ten year old problem. Ask yourselves why in 1968 did the Spanish feel the need to bring in a law to protect off plan property buyers. Not because they thought it would be a nice idea, but because buyers were being conned fifty years ago. So every fifty years or so a new lot come along, wave their flags, sign petitions, protest in whatever way they can, get nowhere, give up and die.All the Spanish have to do is sit back, let it happen and count the money. This is why I'm looking for a new way to fight. I'm not suggesting that we give up the old way, sign Keith and Ruth's petitions for sure, because we will need their hard facts for when we break through. As I'm sure we will.

Thanks for your good wishes.

Kenny Ackers & haydngj

Thanks for your comments guys, What I am trying to do is to get to a figure that will make big news. So I am looking for a well structured guess of how much each developer or bank have stolen from each site. If you can say to me, "I'm pretty sure they sold half of the 1,000 properties off plan and the deposits were a minimum of 50,000 € each I can then calculate my figure from this. ie 500 properties @ 50,000  €  =  25,000,000 € Real money, big money, the sort of money that people are interested in. We have all lost money through these crooks and all our money should have been protected by the banks but my mission is to try and find out  roughly how much has been lost overall.

Thanks and good luck,

ads.

I'm not quite sure if you are for me or against me? Are you suggesting that only firm evidence that can be substantiated will get us noticed? After 50 years I think we need something more sensational. I'm not in this for the fight I want my money back and I will use every trick in the book ,dirty or otherwise. Also, with respect, I think you are preaching to the converted, anyone with half a will to get their money back would have signed Keith's petition. This is a very small audience

Regards.

we must all have the names of the person and the bank it went to will this be of any use in the campain?

Hi haydngj,

Yes, if I were trying to build a data base, but that is not what I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to get some headline grabbing numbers that will shake the UK political establishment into doing something constructive instead of sitting on their worsted behinds.

Regards

Hi Rambi We were buying on Almanzora Country Club in 2005. Paid two payments recieved one payment back as we. We had a bank guarentee We are still owed 53,000 euros. I really admire you for not giving up.These thieves have caused a lot of heartache and took money that people have worked hard for(they are the lowest of the lowest) I wrote several letters to Humo asking for our money back but each time was told to go through a Solicitor,

Hi annm,

I know what you mean and the real gut wrencjing part is they are laughing at us while they spend our money/

Rambi

Rambi

just a thought. The first development I put my deposit down on 'Balcones de riviera'   was never build, Aifos never even got a building license, but lied along with UK agents OVP that it was all ok and even being built up to knee high before we discovered the truth!!. On the development that I was then transfered to and lost my life's savings, the majority of buyers did complete, but many  with massive breaches of contract.  Most were conned but felt they had no choice?. Aifos then 'sold'  my apartment by mistake (a likely story?) when I refused to complete due to a very long build delay, no LFO, sewage issues and build quality issues on development 'Angel de Miraflores'. Aifos then offered me another apartment on the same site, but the apartment's finished size was approx half the size of my original plan, with no discount.  I sued and won my case, but nearly two years after the court had accepted my case.  Aifos went under about 20 months after the court accepted my case against them, so I am left with nothing thanks to the court delay. (apologies again to those who are board stiff with hearing my story!).

The point I'm making is that along with those like me who lost their deposits due to Spain's hopeless lack of implementation of law and their hopeless and slow justice system, many lost huge sums of money even after completing, but because they did complete, the lost value of units with huge breaches of contract has gone unnoticed. Many just felt they were trapped in a huge con' but had no choice?.  Hard to put a number on the losses encountered through this, but I would guess at many millions more?.   It would be interesting to know how many people got what they sighed for in their contract? 

The biggest cons in my opinion now are the lack of BG's and the court delays that often mean  a win in court is useless. These are not simply housing issues but laws flouted, ignored and abused, so are in fact human rights issues, and the fact the EU is not taking action on the Spanish government is probably the biggest crime of all?.  The evidence is huge, obvious and undeniable. Many have indeed been robbed of millions because they followed the rule of law, and trusted that a fellow EU country would be held to account. if required.  Our trust in law and justice within the EU has been completely betrayed and there is no excuse for that.

Hi Goodstitch,

I agree with everything you say. Sadly we Brits think that law and order applies to all EU countries. The sooner UK citizens are made aware of the truth regarding their neighbours the sooner they will stop being conned.

Regards,

Rambi.

Hi Rambi, i am a new member and have just posted a thread under latests,i ment to put it on your page.It basically tells my experience with aifos at Hipodromo,deposiot 2003,court case started 2007,won in 2009 not a cent 2011 awarded 95000euros plus interest.There were 282 appartments approved and 3 blocks never approved at an average of 50000euro deposits just for the approved ones this is 14 millions to sdd to your list of lost monies,this dose not include the ohter 3 blocks approx 60 appartments 3 more millions, May be one day the spanish government might come to its senses and sort this mess out and then the investment money may return?regards Mega

Thanks mega,

Impressive story, I knew Aifos was a bad one but no one could guess at the figures. If you take all the Aifos developments they must be responsible for more money lost than I could guess at.

I have your figure of 14,000,000 € and will add it to the list. Are you saying I should add the other 3 blocks bringing the total to 17,000,000 €?

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Regards,

Rambi.

Rambi,

you said you did not know too much about Aifos. No doubt as you continue to find out more and more you  may continue to be shocked (but not surprised I am sure) at just how bad they are. You may know currently  the head of Aifos and his wife are shortly face criminal fraud charges for their usual behaviour of  taking deposits and never building anything. A virtually identical charge to which they got off scott free 12 months ago. I recall they were let off 12 months ago on the grounds that it could not be proved their intentions were fradulent and they "always meant to build them eventually" !!!

I recall also in the year before they went bust the same owners were reported as having awarded themselves some 76 million euros in dividends !!! No doubt my guess would be they personally are worth very likley several hundred million probably more than enough to refund all off-plan depositors.

There is no doubt in my mind that had they engaged in activity like this within the reach of the USA government they would have treated like Madeoff. Ie imprisoned for life and all assets seized.

The fact that  Spain continues to let people like this get  away Scot free really tells you all you need to know about Spain.

Yes, the 3 blocks were sold out as well,i know because my appartment was one of these.With ref to your experience i was also offered an exchange the one i was buying was 3 bed 145 sq mtrs.the exchange was 2 bed 85 sq mrts nice,A friend did exchange that is on hipodromo and will not be finnished? it was 30000 dearer than his first choice.                                                                                         

Mega

Hi,

I've got to admit that it just beggars belief. How can they look at themselves in the mirror in the morning.

Regards

Rambi.

Quite easly I can imagine !

They work on the NAZI principle as do most Spanish politicians. Ie the more big lies you tel the more people actually believe you.

As you correctly pointed out this is not a 10 year thing more like 50 years or more.

Spain  is endimically corrupt and is not going to change without one hell of a fight.

Yes I think you are right they must consider us to be inferior.

One hell of a fight? I'm in training and polishing my weapons. I'll give you a shout when I need you.

Regards

Rambi