Do I need a residencia or will a padron/nie be enough?

Hi there,

I am moving to Spain (Los Alcazares)  for the new school year (Sept 11) initally for 6 months for a trial period with my family. 

Will a padron be enough for my two children to attend a local school and NIE numbers for us two adults or do we have to apply for full residencia straight away bearing in mind we are only trying it out for six months?

Any advice will be much appreciated

If you are a European Citizen then Residencia has been abolished,  as from 2.4.07.  (It still remains for Non Eurpoeans).

It is now required, if you are permanently in Spain for 3 months, to register  on the European Foreigners list at the National Police (which has  a Documentation Section) for your area.  (This is often incorrectly referred as 'Residencia.').

As you say, you will also need Cert of Empadronamiento, from your town hall.

many thanks johnzx for your reply - very helpful.

Hi - I obtained my Residencia in 2008 and it was needed before I could get my Padron!  It has not been abolished, certainly not in Orihuela Costa anyway.

I believe that the Padron is the important document for schooling but there are lots of parents on the forum who will be able to give you more detail.

Enjoy your stay!

The way I see it:

1. "residencia" literally means residency - "residency" means your official status in the country. You are obliged to register as a foreign resident if you stay more than 3 months. Residency, or residencia, has therefore not exactly been abolished. What has been abolished is the credit card sized plastic ID card that used to come with your residency status; now you just get a green sheet of paper with no photo (therefore no use as ID). So whether or not you agree that the registration on the foreigners list constitutes "residencia", you still are supposed to do something!

2. If your local town hall is (one of the few?) acting legally, you will need to register as a resident (residencia!!) first in order to then register on the padrón. I'm well aware that many town halls do not require residency, but you may well need it for other stuff, and the good news is it's much quicker and easier now that the ID cards have gone (although they're missed by most of us!)

With all due respect to Roberto,   the literal meaning of words in relation to legal documents often leads to confusion, especially with people new to Spain.  Splitting hairs may lead to confusion and be less than helpful. 

The reality is that since 2nd April 2007 people from other EU countries, spending more than three months permanently in Spain must REGISTER.   On doing so they receive a CERTIFICADO DE REGISTRO DE CUIDADANO DE LA UNION.  This shows that they live (reside) in Spain.

 For those who had 'Residencia status' prior to 2nd April 2007, their 'Residencia Card' continued to be valid until it's expiry date.  From then on, they were obliged to register as EU citizen living in Spain.  The Certificate which was issued is often incorrectly referred to as a 'Residencia' but it is not.  (For those who are in any doubt, I suggest you read the certificate you have).

'Empadronar' is the verb to register.  When one does so at a town hall,  it is registering that you are living in that town.  In Spain, everyone is required to register where they reside, and if they change their address must de-register and then re-register in the town they move to.  (often the town hall where they apply for the new registration will cancel the previous one for them).  This applies to everyone in living in Spain, including the Spanish,  it has no relevance to 'Residencia' in the sense that we normally refer to it. 

Quote, "...... now that the ID cards have gone."  Lets not get side tracked.  The Residencia was never an ID card. 

Example.  An EU national can visit Gibraltar and UK using their DNI (national identity card) a non EU citizen cannot do so  their  'Residencia Card'.   (People from outside EU must still go through the Residencia process and thus they are still issued with a Residencia Card.  It is  proof of their ID within Spain only).

PS  Just in passing:  On what basis do I write?  I was a senior police office in UK for 30 years.  I have lived in Spain for 23 years.  I speak reasonable Spanish, and for 17 years have been a voluntary translator with the National Police (and for a while the Guardia Civil).  I also edit a long standing monthly newsletter sent by private subscription to over a thousand foreign property owners in Spain.  I have had over a thousand letters published (in a couple of pseudonyms known to the editors) in the English language press in Spain, mainly relating to legal matters.  I always try very hard to get anything I write correct, although of course I am not infallible

John, with utmost respect for your many years of public service and the invaluable and admirable work you do here:

I did not intend to split hairs, in fact, I answered purely because I felt that your repsonse to the OP may have led to confusion: on the one hand you told him residencia has been abolished, but then told him he has to register as a resident.  Whether or not this involves something rightly or wrongly referred to as residencia, the answer to his question was basically, yes, you have to apply (or register) as a resident.

You have said the certificate of registration is not "residencia" (although you admit that it does establish your status as residing in Spain), and also that neither was residencia ever an ID card (I never said it was - I said you used to get a card along with your residency status, and yes, they did serve as proof of ID, albeit only in Spain). You haven't however explained what in fact you consider "residencia" is or was, though. As I said, the way I see it (I am by no means infallable either!), the word simply refers to a person's status within the country. If you're living here more than 3 months, you're considered a resident, and whether you registered the old way and received a card, or the new way and get a piece of paper, you have "residencia". And to register on the padrón, you are supposed to be able to provide proof of that status first.

But I'm more than happy to stand corrected! Either way I hope between us we have satisfied the OP's question.

We'll leave fiscal residency to another day / thread!

Just to clarify further - or confuse more - that is not an accurate description of the padron.  That statement mixes "living" in the second sentence with "reside" in the third.   The padron is not a register of everyone living in the town/municipio.  It is a register of everyone resident in the municipio and non-residents should not be included on the padron nor on the censo electoral.  Many municipios encourage non-residents to register because their subvention from central government is based on the number of residents on the padron.  But it is not legal. 

The original post related to school admission.  You have to be resident to qualify for education under the Spanish system.  Many schools will take the padron as evidence of residence but they should really ask for your certificate of residency or check with the town hall that you have official residency.  Very few will do so though.  And, again for the benefit of the OP, you do not have to wait three months before applying for residency.  You can apply if it is your intention to become permanently resident.

Dennis,

As you quite clearly show you fully understand the concept,  thus,  I am surprised you decided to comment in a way which might confuse exactly those whom we choose to help.

Had I wanted to imply anything other than "living in" i.e.  being settled as an inhabitant, I would have said so.

I know this is an old thread but the information supplied, in particular by Johnzx, has been extremely useful and enlightening and has cleared up the confusion which abounds elsewhere.

many thanks.

I am absolutely no expert but I am not sure it can be right that you are supposed to have registered as 'resident' before getting on the padron. When I brought our tax free export car from the UK to Spain in April it had to be re-registered in Spain within two months of purchase in order to comply with UK VAT legislation. I was told that, I could not register the car in Spain unless I was on the padron. In May we returned to the UK. At that time, I was definitely not 'resident' in Spain and was still resident in the UK.

So either I was misinformed when I was told I had to be on the padron to register a car in Spain or it must be possible to be on the padron and not be 'resident'.

Aside from my own case, I believe that, if you keep a car in Spain, it must be on Spanish plates (forgetting that many expats ignore this at their peril). If it is right that you must be on the padron to register the car, what about all those people (OK maybe not many) who import their car to Spain but live in Spain, say, only 3 months a year?

 EDIT Also, just found this on the British Embassy website

"You’ll find you need your padrón certificate to carry out various administrative tasks, such as register for healthcare, register your car with Spanish number plates or enrol your children in school."

ukinspain.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-spain/padron

This message was last edited by norm2002 on 21/10/2012.

 We didn't import, but bought a car in Spain this year as non-residents. No we are not on the padron. The dealer took copies of our NIE, Escritura and Water bill. That was sufficient for registration in Cartagena.

Juan

This just seems to be yet another case where inconsistency rules and practice varies from office to office (even day to day sometimes). Certainly when I purchased a new car a year or so back, they (Traffico in Almeria) insisted on a recent Certificate of Empadronamiento . Nothing else would do...