When did it all go wrong for some

El alamillo, thank you for sharing a positive story.

Excellent .. so glad it has all worked out for you.

I too are happy with my purchase (2 years ago).

Initially nearly got ripped off by Spanish estate agent (he spent the 10% deposit so we couldn't complete until vendor agreed that he would owe them the balance!).  Then nearly got ripped off by Brit Builders and a Brit window company .... But eventually got a team of Hungarians who i now trust implicitly and have become very good friends of mine

Only problem is that i cannot get over enough due to work commitments and the price of flights during school holidays

So yes have to agree with you El alamillo ... 'Viva Espania'

 I like to believe that the people with happier stories just don't bother to post.  Otherwise it would drive me to the depths of depression and wondering if there was something wrong with my view of things.  SO really good to hear positive experiences.   Having purchased in 05 we have been hit by falling prices, and certainly there are empty properties around us, and there is land that was going to be built on but now isn't.  But when I swim up and down in our community swimming pool, set in the now well established tropical gardens, that is exactly what I think..... that it is a little bit of paradise.   I love Spain, have enjoyed the challenge of learning the language and I am delighted now to be able to have proper conversations with neighbours.  And as I have said many times before, none of this lessens the sadness I feel for people who have had problems.   But I believe there are many, many people like us who do not regret their commitment to Spain.        

great thread!

We have owned our place for 3 years, had a couple of months delay on the build (March vs the expected January) and then our excellent solicitor (who I still use too), wouldn't let me complete for another month till all the paperwork was to his satisfaction, so we eventually completed in the april.

We get out as much as possible, do one weekend a month during winter - (you would be amazed at how much psychological good it does in the middle of an English january to know that we will soon be getting a couple of days of sunshine, meet up with our friends and visit our beautiful apartment), then have a couple of weeks at the beggining of summer and another at the end (avoiding July & August)...too hot, too crowded, too expensive, with a final week in November.

If all goes to plan this year we will visit 9 times. Total cost of flights c. £1500, which I think is really reasonable...I know people who pay that for 1 set of flights to Florida for the family

Most years, my daughter and her boyfriend go out for a week, as well

Not quite mortgage free yet, but the amount owing is only about 20% of my annual salary, so just waiting for  exchange rates to get to a decent level before I pay it off...although I may just get to a point whre I do it anyway...

So as El Alamillo says..not everyone has had a bad experience..but sometimetime, reading the threads on here you'd never know...

great thread!

We have owned our place for 3 years, had a couple of months delay on the build (March vs the expected January) and then our excellent solicitor (who I still use too), wouldn't let me complete for another month till all the paperwork was to his satisfaction, so we eventually completed in the april.

We get out as much as possible, do one weekend a month during winter - (you would be amazed at how much psychological good it does in the middle of an English january to know that we will soon be getting a couple of days of sunshine, meet up with our friends and visit our beautiful apartment), then have a couple of weeks at the beggining of summer and another at the end (avoiding July & August)...too hot, too crowded, too expensive, with a final week in November.

If all goes to plan this year we will visit 9 times. Total cost of flights c. £1500, which I think is really reasonable...I know people who pay that for 1 set of flights to Florida for the family

Most years, my daughter and her boyfriend go out for a week, as well

Not quite mortgage free yet, but the amount owing is only about 20% of my annual salary, so just waiting for  exchange rates to get to a decent level before I pay it off...although I may just get to a point whre I do it anyway...

So as El Alamillo says..not everyone has had a bad experience..but sometimetime, reading the threads on here you'd never know...

Great thread Alamillo!  Really brightens up the horizon.

Yes. The majority who have purchased in Spain have not encountered major problems, and it is very unfortunate that there are many who have had a bad experience.

Patricia

yes, it's good to see the positive stories, and it's certainly true that  people often only contribute to a forum like this if they have a problem or want advice. 

I think now that there's so much evidence of wrong doing by the developers, banks, courts etc,  that most of those who doubted just how bad the lack of regulation, corruption and justice system has treated many people, now have a better unstanding of the frustration and bitterness felt by many of us.  That frustration clearly comes across as 'Anti-Spain'  or 'Anti those happy in Spain', when what we are really against is the betrayal of trust and downright lies from those in high legal positions in Spain who we have to rely on for common sense regulation and justice.

So all I'm saying is, for those who things are going well for in Spain then great, Iit reminds us of what we set out for and what's possible. Let's hope it stays that way and of course gets better from a sales/value point of view.

If we can understand each others situation without blame or ignorance of facts, then hopefully we can all pull together for a better future for all those involved in the Spanish property industry.

I agree. It is nice to hear some positive stories about purchasing and living in Spain. I guess a lot of it is down to luck , you never know how things are going to work out

 There is a lot of luck involved in purchasing any property.   I just get so depressed when people talk as though only Spain has suffered this kind of problem.  There are many people who have been caught out or trapped in developments here in the UK and in the USA - where at one time you just had to snap your fingers to get multiple mortgages.  In my experience of buying in the USA, I truly did not find the builder we dealt with corrupt in the normal sense, but they were allowing people to buy multiple properties without explaining additional costs or community fees etc etc. I simply believe that where ever there is money to be made, the exploitation and cheating begins - and heaven knows - there has been plenty of money to be made out of property in Spain over the past few decades.  I consider myself lucky to have got out of the USA market JUST before the crash ( pure luck again), and I would much rather be stuck with a property which has lost value in Spain than in the USA.     I often wonder though, what happened to all of those emerging markets that A Place in the Sun used to trumpet?  I wonder how many people were cheated there.  And Dubai??????????? 

Fully agree with what you say Brian.  Of course it isn't just Spain which has suffered from this problem.

 But there is a degree of luck in being in the right place at the right time (like you getting out of the USA in time), but I am not so sure there is such an element of luck in the actual purchase of a property.  

It is all about homework, and then more homework.  And then be careful, be careful.   Ask questions, loads of questions.  Have a note book with you (you absolutely will not remember everything you are told otherwise) when you are consulting lawyers, gestorias or anyone else.  Act exactly as you would act if buying a property in your home country. 

Go on your own to the development/building/estate where you are thinking of purchasing.  Ask questions there.  You probably won't have to ask questions because people will be all too keen to tell you about both the good and the bad. 

Get an independent party to read the documents to you, underlining and underscoring as you go along.  Get all the notes together, all your questions, and have another go with the lawyer. 

I know all very tiresome, but worth while.

Patricia

Bri

I agree, I don't think many would say anywhere is perfect, everywhere has corruption of some sort, but regarding proprty purchase, Spain's lack of regulation on quantity, quality, legal issues and justice probably has to be experienced first hand to fully understand just  how bad it is compared to countries like the UK.  In a way though, everyone with Spanish property pays the price to some degree, and the current state of the market is witness to that. Obviously the reccesion has made matters worse, but the rot had set in long before that.  Looking on the positive side, the truth and facts, the good and bad are out in the open for all to see now, so hopefully there won't be the same planning disasters in future or so many people cheated by crooked developers/agents/banks etc, though the courts are still making a bloody mess of things through delays and stupid decisions. 

 Have a good Weekend everyone.

 I am sure that you don't mean your comments to be patronising, Patricia, but they do come out that way - essentially suggesting that stupidity plays a bigger part than luck. 

"Act exactly as you would act if buying a property in your home country. "  goes to the root of the problem.  People do act exactly as they would in the UK.  They trust their lawyer - just like they do in the UK.  They don't think "get an independent lawyer" because in the UK that goes without saying.  And they expect their lawyer to represent their best interests and not act as an arbiter or sympathiser with your opponent - just like in the UK.  Then they trust their bank to tell the truth.  They expect a ten year guarantee promised by the bank and agreed by the lawyer to be ........ well, a guarantee really.  Just like in the UK.  They probably get a bit confused when their lawyer and bank manager (and estate agent) suggest that tax evasion would be in everyone's best interests.  Certainly not used to that in the UK.  And on and on and on .........

DON'T put words in my mouth that I did NOT say, JEK

You picked the wrong person to pick on today.

In no sentence did the word "stupidity" appear.  I merely emphasise and can't emphasise enough that people need to TAKE CARE.  That's all!! 

I have seen over the years how people DID NOT take care, have seen how many thought they'd save by NOT having a lawyer, how many others didn't and  don't lisen to anyone.  Geeze, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't!  Warn people, and you are wrong; don't warn them and you are equally wrong!

Patricia

Campana,

I think what people object to is when you say statements like "It is all about homework, and then more homework.  "

Unfortunately in Spain homework does not prepare you for a system of justice that fails to ensure enforcement of the rule of law, no matter what the circumstance.

Spanish Courts and Authorities are not competent.  The courts are slow, have a complete lack of understanding of LEY 57/68 and there is a great inconsistency in their Judgements.

We know the Spanish Authorities are not competent.  If they were then they would have enforced LEY 57/68 and we would not all be in this mess!!

The facts are that as things stand at present the Spanish Justice system's incompetence and lack of regulatory controls gives them free reign to do as they like, without any apparent accountability, which effectively places everyone at risk in Spain.

Sadly this affects everyone because those who seek justice are not , in the main,  those who have not done their homework, they are innocent people who have been "abused" in one form or another and are trying to effect their rights according to the rule of law..

Have good w/end all.

This message was last edited by ads on 22/07/2011.

This message was last edited by ads on 22/07/2011.

Ads

why am I not surprised to see you on here having a whinge.....this is a POSITIVE thread, can't you see that the majority of posters on this thread are sick and tired of your negativity and your lectures that we've all heard before.......this is why I use words like hijack in relation to the threads that you come on to...because that's exactly the perception that we have .

And do people object to Patricia's comments or  do you object to them I wonder?  I make her absolutely right.

In my block of 12 apartments, there were very few who used a solicitor and  I believe we were the only ones who had a Bank Guarantee. Yes of course people still get caught out even with those safeguards  as you have told us ad infinitum, but Patricia is only pointing out that you can increase your chances of a good result by taking all the steps she says..I can't understand why that offends...are we being a tiny bit precious here?

Oh and don't bother replying with another of your war & peace justifications, we were trying to maintain a positive thread here

And to all the people who have posted comments on here I apologise for interrupting "normal service", but it had to be done!...as you were :-)

Here we go again.

I, like everyone else, has every right to respond to something that was posted, and in case you haven't seen the title of this thread then I suggest you re-read it. You are trying to Police EOS without authority and you are bullying and offensive once again, to which I take great exception.

Here we go again............

This is exactly why people don't bother to post anymore.

Positive views of any sort just have to be interrupted to remind us all how bad Spain really is.

Well, the news is - that it's just not news.  Not anymore, and it wasn't before. 

Spain has always been the same, and the Spanish will tell us so quite clearly. 

Many of us have suffered in many different ways through buying or trying to buy in Spain, but don't feel the need to constantly try and burst everyone's bubble all of the time.

Many of us have signed all the petitions and joined all the calls for justice, but if we don't join in the criticism we're accused of not understanding or not being supportive.  So we just don't post, pity, as this was always a brilliant forum.  Thanks for all the positive stories and keep them coming.

Well said, Asterisks!  Exactly.

Exactly Asterisks, which is why i always try to counter the negativity that is posted on here, for which I get accused of bullying and being offensive.....But I'm a big boy, I can stand up for myself...

Actually if people no longer post on here because they are fed up with the same people  repeating the same negative things ad nausium or should that be ads nausium?, then maybe the accusation of bullying could be made the other way...