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Two wrongs don't make a right. If you want to lower yourselves to be as bad as the corrupt builders, developers, agents etc then go ahead. But it will be you who gets hauled up in court quick sticks, and you won't have to wait 5 years for a judgement, you will be dealt with straight away and will hit the headlines unlike all the present corrupt people who can hide away for many year.
We thought of squatting once in our property that we are still fighting for compensation for in court, but we realised that we would not be doing ourselves any favours. Another thing is: think of the poor souls who could have put a deposit on that property and are going through the correct legal channels to get it back. As I say TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT, and morally and legal you are wrong.
Rosemary
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Hi Alyson,
I understand your predicament and you need to distance yourself from any kind of questionable activity concerning the building.
The laws concerning construction and contract in Spain are very complex and any unnecessary involvement in or with them, should be avoided at all costs.
Why not write a recorded letter to the president and the builder (keeping a copy of course). You don’t need to go into detail, just point out that you will not agree or be party, to any activity outside the terms and conditions of the purchase and any shared management agreements of your home.
You don’t need to mention the president’s intentions either, but if the proverbial hits the fan, as a result of the actions of others, you have at least covered your back.
Good luck
Woodbug
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Wend
I totally agree with your comment about posts which have no connection with the thread, but then some posters seem to delight in making their narrow minded comments, regardless of what the thread is actually about.
On the other hand, whilst some of those making comments may well be right, we have absolutely no knowledge of the actual situation here, and therefore, to a large extent making posts, almost any posts, amounts to wild guesses and achieves practically nothing.
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Alyson
QUOTE: -
We have some unsold apartment in our block and the president has the keys. Some people have come up with the idea that while we are still on builders' electricity supply we should furnish these apartments with our own excess items and rent them out. We are moving to our own meters within the next few weeks and they are considering attaching a meter in the communities name to one of the apartments. It has been let for a month over the summer to relatives of other owners in the building.
Some of us in the building are against this for the obvious reasons, is there any way that we can officially distance ourselves, so when if all goes wrong, as we know it will, we have not responsibility.
From what you have stated why do you imagine for one moment that the private actions of others, totally unsupported by you, would reflect in any way on you ?
This message was last edited by johnzx on 14/07/2012.
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I am a retired solicitor in UK and therefore not familiar with Spanish law. But I would say 100% this type of action is illegal and you should not be involved in anyway, shape or form. Also, before I continue you can insure ANYTHING whether you own it or not just to clarify. I think its a moot point to bring up bankers and anyone else that Norman may consider acted illegally, though I think you will find that due to lack of legislation no laws were broken, but that's for another forum. To return to this reference, and the illegality of this proposed action. You cannot earn income from an illegal act and the builder when he finds out, as he will is within his rights to sue and at the same time sue for costs. Not to mention any tenants who find themselves homeless. You could also be sued by not only the builder, any tenants in occupation and the electricity supply company. In law you cannot use in mitigation "he owed us money so we thought we would get even". It doesn't work like that. So my advice would be if all or most of the tenants are involved in this, that you write a letter to the President making it clear you are not privy to these proposed intentions.
I am amazed at the lengths people will go to in order to justify something which is blatantly not only immoral but also illegal!
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If I shine too brightly, then put your sunglasses on oy vey
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Foxilady,
I note your previous occupation in UK: I am a retired Det Ch Insp from UK.
Alyson has said clearly that she is not involved in any actions taken with regard to illegally letting any property or to any involvement re illegal electricity supply.
If the President or anyone else takes it upon himself or herself to do that, he/she cannot be held to be acting on behalf of anyone else. ( In fact, in Spain if the Community engages in any illegal act it is the president who is the responsible person --- rather like a Company Secretary in UK ).
It might be considered that Alyson has some involvement if she writes to deny that she is involved, as she might be said to be aware of the illegal acts (In UK that might involve conspiracy being considered).
As I have said: Alyson, according to her first post, is in no way connected with any illegal act and therefore needs to do nothing to maintain that position.
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Sod all this legal / illegal nonsense. Where we're you apologists when these builders were robbing us blind with their blatant disregard for the law. If they can't be caught and prosecuted for misappropriating millions of euros, who's gonna prosecute a few residents trying to get a few bob back !! Brits have got to start treating Europe the same as the French and Spanish do. Ignore the law. Nobody cares, don't you get it ???
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Foxylady and I have retired now so it makes no difference to us when people encourage others to break the law. Of course when we were working I would have arrested them and she would have prosecuted or defended them.
But I am sure our combined advice now would be don’t break the law, in the end you almost certainly will lose
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John thank you for that clarification. Our laws do differ often don't they?
Billyboy I do believe you are misinformed if you think that no will bother if someone "steals" electricity. If we were all to behave in a "tit for tat" manner what on earth would the world be like? We have laws to protect and and serve us. I do appreciate that sometimes Spanish law can be cumbersome, irritating and unfair. This outlines why it is so important when buying property in any country other than our own, we should engage the services of a solicitor in said country and one that also is fluent in English. I believe in doing this it rather lessens the chances of being "ripped off". I myself would never pay a builder without first finding out his indebtedness to his bank and a bank guarantee that my property would be finalised as agreed. It's all a bit late for caveat emptor as many people left the UK for warmer climbs and simply didn't do as they would back in the UK with regard legal and surveyors advice etc. Which is a bit off topic.
This message was last edited by Foxilady on 14/07/2012.
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If I shine too brightly, then put your sunglasses on oy vey
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I am surprised that anyone who has lived in Spain could possibly think that the Spanish authorities would back a Brit who has just shafted one of their own.
Don’t think I would want to do Paella in the Penitenciario!
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Dear All,
off thread of course, but how can supposedly intelligent people be so naive????????????
it beggars belief!!!!!!!
of course crime should not pay but as all us victims know IT DOES, IT DOES, IT DOES, get it, IT DOES.
this ordinary trusting joe knows only too well and the lawyers are the worst of all crooks
the english solicitor I trusted may have been a crook before he started work with Euro Legal Solutions but he certainly was whilst with them and may still be today working under another name
unfortunately the police also join in to the corruption
I happen to live near Chestfield, a little village outside Whitstable, which has grown over the years as a seaside waterig hole for the London gangsters' weekend retreat, where they built their mock tudor mansions to entertain their friends including their "Met" friends in luxury.
You really must understand that crime pays, always has done and always will, but of course in the interests of "justice" criminals have human rights including property rights, so you must not be too hard on them, otherwise they will get their bent lawyer and policeman to chase you.
Watch out and good luck
Norman
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N. Sands
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Norman whilst i agree with your sentiments sometimes, it doesn't change the fact that a small group of individuals that take the law into their own hands or worse, will get severely jumped on by the Establishment, GET IT? The law isn't about fairness or justice it's about making joe average comply with what the state wants. GET IT? Lifes shit then you die!
_______________________
If I shine too brightly, then put your sunglasses on oy vey
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Hhmmm,
so if the state was composed of honest fair-minded people we would have a wonderful life - well we haven't, we need the revolution to sweep away all privilege and lawyers, since equity and fair-mindedness needs no such assistance.
as the man says we don't have common law, as we should, we only have "lawyers law"
we now even have "village green law", where a small bunch of criminal tresspassers can break into agricultural land to exercise their dogs and despoil the crops with their crap
then claim the land is their "village green" - what barmy lawyer thought that one up to extend his pay packet onto infinity and beyond.
have you tried calling the police lately, they just give you a number to give your insurance company and they are not even police but clerks.
Oh well lifes a shit isn't it.
Regards
Norman
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N. Sands
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Foxilady14 Jul 2012 16:52 "as many people left the UK for warmer climbs"
In the Gredos?
This message was last edited by GuyT on 14/07/2012.
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hahahahaha was distracted with loads of people here - obviously meant climes!
_______________________
If I shine too brightly, then put your sunglasses on oy vey
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Norman, when you say, “Have you tried calling the police lately, they just give you a number to give your insurance company and they are not even police but clerks.”
What are you talking about? As this Eye on SPAIN, then it must be Spain.
902 102 112, on which one can, or I should say could, as the system has been suspended for several weeks, did not give one a number to give to your insurance company but a number to use when visiting a National Police station to make a crime report. With the number, a police officer, could access the info the caller supplied and with that info produce a crime report, which had a report number and a copy of which was supplied to the person making the report.
Norman, do you think you could engage your brain before making those silly comments, which you are so fond of ?
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Norman I think you're getting your common law and statutes muddled. Common law is the old standing laws which possibly the village green law falls under as it sounds very much the law that allows everyone to common land. Most laws governments bring in now are not actually laws but statutes, which are more akin to a contract ie the government assumes you as a citizen has agreed to the contract of the statute eg with statutes it is as if you are assumed to be an amployee of a company and that company being the state. It is incredibly rare for government to bring in new common law. On the other hand I do agree we need change and the sooner the better for everyone. Btw I worked as a defence criminal lawyer and even though I always did my best to represent my clients; I doubt they felt that crime always paid. Perhaps you should watch V for Vendetta for tips on overthrowing a government lol.
_______________________
If I shine too brightly, then put your sunglasses on oy vey
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Well, I know a man who told me that there is still an old law in force that says ‘if a woman seduces a man to marriage with the use of woad, coloured wax or painted cosmetic, then the man shall be at liberty to divorce her’ (that lets most of us off the hook lads!), and he said that you can still legally have a wee in public against a cart wheel, now that’s common for you Foxy!
Woodbug
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_______________________
If I shine too brightly, then put your sunglasses on oy vey
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Dear Elaine,
I believe the flavour of "lifes a shit and then you die" referred to UK, or perhaps the world as a whole without excluding Spain where things are of course much better than average, so I am told repeatedly.
The accurate factual comment on the "police" reaction did indeed refer to the uk and uk law discussion going on.
From experience the same is true of France and from your comment seems to coincide in Spain.
Which also confirms my own experience there when my daughter was robbed in broad daylight by a gypsy woman outside a shop in front of store security, who advised that calling the police was a waste of time and all you could do is to report the theft at the local police station desk. With no doubt a number of some sort being provided.
As to your silliness, I have no comment.
Regards
Norman
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N. Sands
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