Shouldn't Spanish schools all teach in Spanish (Castilian)?

 To me it seems logical, you're in Spain and everyone speaks Spanish, so it should be the standard language for education. But it isn't and this is what the new education law that Minister Wert is trying to achieve, that every child in Spain has the oportunity to learn in Spanish. This doesn't happen at the moment and has caused an uproar in certain regions, obviously Catalunya is worth mentioning as well as the Basque Country, Galicia and The Valencian Community. All these regions have their own language/dialect and at the moment it is compulsory to learn all or some subjects in these languages. In Catalunya all schools are 100% in Catalan, which I personally think is ridiculous, my sister in law had to move to Barcelona for work and her kids had to move into a new school, it was a nightmare for the kids as they spoke no Catalan and started to fall behind at an ever increasing rate. In Valencia my daughter has to do certain subjects in Valenciano and others in Catilian, its a mix. We speak no Valenciano in the household and she is having to learn valenciano on the fly to keep up. Given that these languages are of no use outside of their regions and aren't even necessary within their regions, I think that the new law is moving in the right direction. However I am fully aware that many will not agree with me and say that traditions should be maintained, but with Spains workforce becoming ever more mobile these language limitations are no more than a discrimination. Spain is a country and has a language, Spanish-Castilian, surely if one wants to work as a civil servant or a teacher in Valencia and they come from Madrid, they should have the possibility. Well unless thay speak Valenciano they can't. Hell I would understand it if they had to speak English but they don't even speak Valenciano in the city of Valencia, just the country villages. I also think that it is madness that one cannot learn in Spanish if they live in the Basque Country, similar to Catalunya. How did this ever happen? I am all for maintaining local languages and dialects, but I believe it should be optional, not compulsory. I certainly don't want my daughter losing precious school time to learn a useless language. If they have to speak another language let it be one that will help Spain in the future not hold it back.

I suppose it is controversial, but even my Spanish friends have the same frame of mind, its not a "foreignors" point of view.

It just seems common sense.

It's an issue that depends on your identity, I think.  In Wales, sometimes people complain that their local school is now a Welsh-medium school and they want their children to have the choice to learn in English.  As a Welsh person who was brought up being taught Welsh by crummy teachers for a few hours a week (and who has therefore had to make massive efforts as an adult to learn what is a really complex language), it has been important for us to have our children learn Welsh the easy way, while they're young and I've got little sympathy with people who complain.  'Go (back) to England, then,' is a phrase that springs to mind.  I always think how ludicrous it would be if I moved to England and moaned that the local school didn't teach through the medium of Welsh... 

A lot of English people who come to Wales don't understand the importance of our language to us and the resentment about what the English did by systematically attempting to wipe it out in the 19th century.  English people also often don't realise that Welsh predates English.  I don't necessarily think it is the same issue in areas such as Catalonia, although they might think it's the same.  That's because I think Welsh is more important than Catalan!  And because if I lived in Catalonia, as an outsider who understands the importance of Castilian and has zero interest in Catalan, I would also want my children to be educated in Castilian.  So, I suppose I'm a hypocrite.

 I fully understand the position of welsh/english and catalan/spanish  but I suppose it is possible to go through school in Wales without being able to speak welsh or is it not? and go to University in Cardiff without having to speak Welsh. Well in Catalunya at the moment that is not possible, or you study in Catalan or you don't study full stop unless you go to a private British School and study in English. This is the situationn that I find intolerable in modern day Spain, no matter what one's perspective is. I think Valencia's solution is acceptable, the majority of the subjects are given in Castilian and a couple in Valenciano but there are some schools that give the option to do those classes in Castilian aswell, but not all. However Valenciano classes are compulsory. Ok, one can live with this, I would imagine this structure is more similar to the Welsh/English solution. Eggcup would have to clear up that doubt. Eventhough there are regions that have a local language, they are still part of Spain, they are not associated regions which are independant, they depend on the state. I think the move forward with the education reform is a step in the right direction, also introducing English as a second language is a must and that all teachers no matter what subject they teach will have to have a certain certified level of English.

It is the only way forward, sure it will take years to appreciate the benefits but Spain need to move on.

My experience in Wales is that usually, if you live in a town, you can choose whether you want your child to go to a Welsh or English-medium school, but sometimes one or other will be nearest to your home and then some people get annoyed that the education in their nearest school isn't conducted in their chosen language.  This must also be the case in smaller towns, villages and rural areas, where there will be less choice.  Learning Welsh is compulsory in all schools in Wales as far as I know, but in the English-medium ones the children won't get to a very high level of proficiency, just as I didn't as a child.  You wouldn't need to speak Welsh at all to go to Cardiff University.  I think we are far less 'defensive' in Wales about the language and don't for example, expect non-Welsh or even Welsh people to necessarily speak Welsh.  I believe that is not always the case in Catalonia, where some people can be reluctant to speak to non-Catalan people in Castilian and, for example, try and speak to them in English when their command of English might be pretty poor, which is silly.  I've experienced that scenario in Catalonia. 

 I came from a Welsh speaking family and had to learn English to go to school. I did some Welsh in school but my family felt it was from another region ie South not North Wales Welsh. So we go on and on. Is it not best to learn the most usful language first and have lessons in that language ie English . I am sorry I have lost my native language but the world is changing. I wish we had done Spanish or Italian  and not French and German in school . Europe should now be working to all having English as a second language Esperanto did not work and English has become the dominant language.  We must respect the language of the country we live in which is Castiian Spanish . Accept the reason is probably because of a past exteme point of view (Franco era) but here we are now. Local dialects  could be encouraged but modern world is changing everything and it is not better we understand each other and live together,. Its important that the next working generation in Europe can communicate with each other

The acts of Welsh language supporters in the 70s of criminal damage and burning homes gave me a point of view of extremists i did not like. Extremist Nationals get taken over by anarchists so be careful

 Here in the USA we have English first and welcome all other languages. Bi and trilingual education is so important but a common one is a necessity. Not only for safety but to compete for business and jobs.  Spanish should be taught to all and other languages infused in students education.  What a disservice to the kids in these other regions Catalonia and Basque areas.  They will never compete for jobs in a global market especially here in the US ,Central and South America etc.  I have been to these areas and find many simply racists. They need to get with a 21st century plan for the people and kids.  Here in New Jersey we have many schools and programs(Mandarin) popping up so our kids get compete in the Chines market.  Wake up basque and Catalan people

 The Catalan people are so full of themselves. They think they are paying for the rest of Spain to develope. They just have this ingrown hated for the rest of Spain. The quicker they make them teach in Spanish the better. When you visit the area they look down theirnose to you. I try not to go there too much. Same goes for the other problematic people in North Spain.

Ooh! Controversial!!!

Controversial indeed!  Anybody would think that they don't teach Spanish here in Catalunyan schools. Oh hang on a minute, they do! The kids learn spanish just as well as anywhere in the rest of spain plus all the TV is in spanish except for TV3 and 33. My wife is Catalan and speaks perfect spanish so very strange for a region that does not teach it. I really am sure that most if not all Catalans could get a job if they so chose to in the uSA as surprise surprise they speak Spanish as well as Catalan. Peple that are commenting from Wales should know better as well!

The Catalans are rightly proud of their language. During the Franco regime it was illegal to learn it or speak it. To my mind it is heading that way all over again with the current people who are in power in Madrid. Why don't they sort out more pressing issues like the crisis before trying to divert attention away from themselves towards other matters.

As the wife of K5, yes a Catalan person, who speaks catalan, spanish and english I have to say that it would be very good that before you talk or express an opinion you get your facts right!!!  There is absolutelly NO ONE in Catalunya that does not speak spanish, I repeat NO ONE!!!!!!!! In fact ALL schools teach spanish alongside catalan ... and so it should be as , and i hope that all intelligent people will agree, the more languages the better???. Yes we teach both languages but we also want to protect our language, despite some of you finding it useless... which makes me wonder about the value of your opinions anyway! A language is culture, tradition... how would you feel if you were not allowed to speak your language, which by the way, happened during the Franco dictatorship, when many catalans were killed just for being catalans.... and we were not allowed to talk or learn catalan... My parents did not learn catalan and can't write in it... i will not have my children (who by the way speak catalan, english and SPANISH) suffering the same... I really don't see what your problem is Mac 75.. and I don't even know why you keep banging on about it.. When I lived in England I always thought that I had to adapt and embrace everything british, and I did, and I enjoyed it... You live in Valencia (or Catalunya), you should respect and embrace their/our culture and language, like many foreigners that live here do... but if can't bare it, you know where the door is... but do us all a favor and stop lying and banging on about things you know nothing about, we are all bored.

This message was last edited by johnzx on 09/12/2012.

 "I really don't see what your problem is Mac 75.. and I don't even know why you keep banging on about it."

What exactly am I banging on about? I've only made a couple of comments and given my opinion. It's not a problem I have, I just think it would be far better if one could choose to be taught in Spanish, every subject and that is no the case in Catalunya, Valencia, Galicia or the Basque Country

"In fact ALL schools teach spanish alongside catalan"

This is NOT at all true, and I speak from first hand experience, my nephews who are Spanish went to school in Tarragona and everything was in Catalan there was not one single class or even one hour a week in Castellano. So if that is teaching Castellano alongside Catalan,"let God come down and see it", as one would say in Spain.  They went through hell for over a year as they didn't understand a thing and had absolutely no opportunity to do any classes in Castellano full stop. It was Catalan or go to a private school in the area. So, should they be looking for the door aswell? This shouldn't be the case, as we are all in Spain, after all. Please don't get all defensive, no one is saying you can't speak Catalan or one shouldn't speak Catalan, of course not, tradition is tradition, but one can't hide behind this tradition and ignore the fact that children should have the opportunity to be taught in Castellano, anywhere in Spain, and catalunya is still Spain. The second language should be English from day 1 of school. Then a third language can be compulsory, whether it be Catalan or Valenciano or Chinese. English is far more important and should be given much more importance from a much earlier age. It is an undeniable fact. As much as I am for protecting heritage, one has to admit that Catalan or Valenciano or Basque have no use at all out side of their regions. If it is of importance they will learn it at home, and get support at school but one should be able to choose if they want to be taught in it at school. As much as everyone speaks castellano on Catalunya, and I have worked for years with Catalans, only in the world of Business have they made the effort to answere in Castellano. In everyday life, what I have experienced is a tremendous ability to avoid speaking it. My sister in law and her family live in Granollers and have done for nearly 30 years so I have had  a fair bit of experience over the past 16 years.

"You live in Valencia (or Catalunya), you should respect and embrace their/our culture and language, like many foreigners that live here do... but if can't bare it, you know where the door is.."

We are in Spain and I respect all Spanish traditons, Catalan or Valenciano or Madrileño. I do respect Valencia and it's customs. I understand Valenciano without any problems eventhough we don't speak it at home, but the dominant language in Valencia is Castellano. Valenciano is spoken mainly in the villages within the region. In the Capital everyone speaks Castellano, not like in Barcelona. But there is nothing wrong with that, If I had lived in Barcelona I would have learnt Catalan aswell, as a matter of fact I understand most of it, but I didn't need to. It's not a question of baring it or not, it's not an attack or an nightmare situation. I love Spain, but it is frustrating to see how much better Spain could do if it started to give more importance to other things. There is a terrrible fear that the traditons will disappear, they won't disappear at all. No one is saying eradicate these languages, but at least offer others and don't force less beneficial languages on those who don't need it, and this goes for Spanish people too.Spain is a country and people migrate around the country for work or will need to now and in the future, there are many companies that won't hire people unless they speak these languages, whihc is crazy.  In my daughters previous school, no parents opted for extra Valenciano classes, just the minimum established by law, they was a general consenus for over 1000 pupils that extra time should be dedicated to other languages instead. As it was a private school this was possible. But it gives an idea that there is a demand for other languages and parents given the chance move away from these less beneficial local languages in favour of improving their childs possibilities in life, which in turn will improve Spain, all of Spain and make it more competitive.

 Aye, Aye, Mac75, I am with you 100% of the way.  My nephew, age 13, lives in Barcelona and although he can speak fluently in Spanish, he has serious difficulties writing it and does not know Spanish grammar or literature.  In a few years' time should he need to develop professioally in other regions Spain, other than Catalonia, he is going to be at a tremendous disadvantage with job applicants who can write Spanish and now Spanish grammar.  He is also studying English but the language in which he has been taught grammar and other subjects is Catalan and that will put him at a disadvantage in the future outside Catalonia.

Why jeopardize the future of students in Catalonia in that way, putting them at a disadvantage is beyond my comprehension.  This person that says that ALL Catalans speak Spanish is right, strictly speaking.  They speak Spanish, but probably anybody under the age of 20 who has received a public school education and many even in private schools do not write Spanish well enough to compete for jobs anywhere else in Spain where a good command of written Spanish is more than necessary.  It is really a shame.

Naturally, as you rightly say, no one is saying Catalans should be prevented from learning, speaking, writing, etc. Catalan, but their Spanish education should not be neglected the way it is now and has been for the past several years.  That is what the new Wert Law (for the Spanish Minister of Education) is trying to avoid, specially in those cases where the parents of the children prefer for them to be educated in Spanish.

Thanks for expressing your thoughts.  I also thank K5ive and his wife for expressing theirs.  That is what keeps the forum interesting and alive.  If we were all of the same views, that is when we would all be bored.  Anyhow, before I am told to look for the door, I would like to say that I am Spanish and this is my home country and I am very proud of that fact and don't wish to go anywhere.  My grandparents were Catalans from Barcelona and they spoke Catalan to each other.  Unfortunately, I do not speak it although I understand it fairly well.

It does depend on the level of education to which you are referring.  Try going on to a scientific publishing company and see how many higher and advanced level text books are published in Spanish compared to the number published in English or American.  Now try and find them in Catalan, Valenciano, Basque, Catalan, Castellano etc.

I spent some time in Iceland where there was a vibrant written word culture in Icelandic.  The population was about 200,000 but there were 5 daily newspapers each having 3 editions a day.  However, all secondary and tertiary education was taught in English.

My mother was born in China as the daughter of missionaries and her first language was Mandarin.  She was taught in school in English and when she returned to highlands of Scotland to complete her schooling she was still taught in English (not Gaelic).  I went to school there too and the only class that was taught in Gaelic was the Gaelic class so I suppose what I am trying to say is that a local language has its benefits in cultural identity but it also has great limitations in other areas such as technical development.

The language of communication in the computer world is definitely English.  I worked for a large multi-national company spanning 91 countries and the requirement was for everyone to read and write English.  Every international meeting, conference call or email had to be in English but internal meetings could be in the local language.

Some posts identify the problems children have changing schools  where the language used is not consistent across Spain.  Now compound that problem by having to choose where the parents will work in Spain (and hence the language taught in the school) depending on what subjects the children want to learn because the text books are only in that language.  Where do you live and work when you have two children who want to do different subjects and the text books are not in the same local language.

You may have gathered that I am Scots not English and so I too am aware of historical oppression by a foreign power.  However, unlike the Welsh posting I believe that the age of a language compared to the age of another language is irrelevant when considering how to live for the future.  By all means everyone should be educated in their cultural heritage (of which language is a part) but cultural heritage is just one part of life which should neither overwhelm nor hold back a fuller understanding of the world's knowledge.

I think that spain should be thinking more in line with the fact that they belong to the EU, as this problem of languages has caused huge problems in the UK.     Trying to accommodate and cope with 100's of languages of people coming to the UK from all over Europe which cannot deal with all these languages in the schools, there should only be one language for all to speak, the native language of the country.   In the case of the UK English should be taught first.   Of course we have separate regions to consider like Scotland, Wales and Ireland where they have their own local language but they still have English as their first language (or should do) now that since joining the EU we have people here, millions of them, from all over the world.    immigrants coming to the UK could all argue (as they have tried to in the past), that we have interpreters, all government information and leaflets in several other languages be provided, and in some areas they do such as hospital info etc. which has cost the UK a fortune.   

I have always thought that Spain had the right idea in making non-Spanish people attend doctors, hospitals etc. with their own interpreter and this should have been done here in the UK years ago.    Instead of which when I worked in a children's centre we employed interpreters at a cost of hundreds every week to interpret for Polish, Czech, Romanian, Italian, Chinese, Mandarin, Hindu, Punjabi to name but a few and all these people expected to have an interpreter provided for CAB appointments etc.   In the end it became unaffordable providing too many services and children's centres were outsouced to the Charity sector.   Encouraging people to continue with their own language once they move to another country is impractical.   Also for business, I know from my son's job, all major contracts have to be printed in English which is an international universally used language.   It makes sense doesn't it to save money and integration for a country and only one major language is taught with perhaps the second language as an optional extra.

The minority language regions of Spain do their own children a huge diservice by narrowing their language capabilities. While the world is increasingly globalised the best option for any young person is to learn any of the world's major languages rather than a relatively useless regional language which they can probably speak anyway (in the villages of Cataluña, Pais Vasco, etc) or else they probably don't need it. You can, of course, keep a minority language alive for a few decades by artificial means but the history of language is that it is constantly developing and to try to stop that is trying to stop the tide from coming in. Catalan is a perfect example of this - it is a mix of old Castillian Spanish (which is actually more Portuguese than Spanish as we now speak it) and medieval French.

I don't think minority languages last a few decades and then die off.  I don't know what the historical evidence for that is.  As I said before, the English did try and wipe out the Welsh language systematically in the 19th century and failed and it is a very vibrant language now.  Personally, my favourite language is English because it is my native tongue, and I am grateful to have been brought up with it as my first language, because it is also so important internationally.  But I enjoy learning lots of languages (French, German, Italian etc) and apart from Welsh (which I have learnt as an adult as it is part of my national heritage), I like to learn languages that I think will be of some use to me.  I agree therefore that English and Castilian Spanish are very important, and especially important for business (as is Mandarin of course, but I don't see many people learning it, because it is damn hard for us Europeans - I made a half-hearted attempt earlier this year) but it sits quite uneasily with me when people, especially non-speakers of minority languages, tell us how unimportant and dispensable these languages are.