How does a Community Work?

Brilliant pics of boxes with red crosses inside, my friend. What can we do with those ? Let's see now.

 (Aha, you edited, Rob, well done. ) I'll leave my graphic on, it's too funny to remove.

I have a photo of near same place as where Karen lives (I think it is) last year when it rained lots. My friend took it as she was passing by in her car.

From today's Sur in English: http://www.surinenglish.com/noticias.php?Noticia=11423

Kind of puts our problems in perspective.

Can't believe it's been so long since I posted on this one. That's how long it's taken for us to establish that the builder lied to us when he told us the reason the plans of the garage drainage system we have are different to the actual installation, is because ours are not the final plans, and there were modifications made. They used this gem to wriggle out of accepting any responsibilty for our problems.

Our administrator has finally established beyond any doubt that there are NO other plans, never have been, and the town hall only passed one set of plans. The builder just built something different. Which is illegal.

We had a very uncomfortable meeting today with the builder, architect and developer. I opened the meeting by stating these FACTS, and there then followed an uncanny silence the like of which I have NEVER experienced when in the company of more than one Spaniard. Believe me, a room full of Spaniards with NOBODY speaking is VERY strange and unnerving!

After about an hour of bullsh*t, we left with an assurance from the developer that something would be done. BIG result. BUT, vamos a ver, as they say - let's see................

I'd love to hear you & Karen's OH discussing Presidents tasks. Roberto, you wouldn't BELIEVE our President's latest !! Deciding to lie to non residents who didn't attend last Sept's EGM rather than have another meeting. We were at the EGM & no votes were taken apart from voting new President in as previous one decided she wanted out. (Previous President decided a few days before the EGM she'd had enough & told her mate who said "I'll have a bash" so it was fait accompli !!!  )

President said at meeting "I'm standing down but Pam has offered to do it so can I have a proposer, thank you sir, can I have a show of hands, thank you".  New President !!! Not the correct procedure !!! I think we all know that emails that were sent out to all owners to notify them of the EGM (but these only had a scant & rough idea of topics so how the f*** can anyone not attending the meeting, vote ?? You can tell More's hopping mad) should've have said that existing President was not standing for a further year so please propose someone to give us all a chance to propose our choice rather than have someone forced onto us because maybe 10 out of 54 owners voted at the EGM.  Our last President didn't decide until a few days before the meeting & we only learnt from a neighbour a couple of days before the meeting who told us "Maureen's decided she doesn't want to play at being President any more but Pam said she'll do it ". No email was sent to us so no email went to anyone. It was Sept 12th this EGM. It was a shambles with tensions running very high & owners talking over the top of owners. No control. We went to see our administrator in November to ask where the minutes were. He said he hadn't been able to take any because there was so much unrest mainly regarding that gazebo I told you about. (Still erected BTW). We told him Karen's OH has told us he should've sent the minutes to Madrid before then & he agreed but added there were no votes taken & nothing was agreed so he had to speak with Pam & likely another meeting would have to be called. When we went over at xmas still nothing was said.

Early January we received MINUTES, minutes that the administrator told us weren't taken !! These minutes said we voted on height of walls  !! OH NO WE DID NOT !! It was discussed at great length, same as the gazebo. He added that it had been agreed no action would be taken against the owners of the gazebo. NO WAY WAS THAT AGREED !! We'd even had an email late December from Pam saying she still had to clarify what could be done about the damn thing. (My words, not hers. She & the committee are far more angry with owners who have repeatedly insisted that as the gazebo was erected totally against community rules, the President must demand its removal, than the owners of the gazebo). 

Anyway we were so incensed that we sent Pam a very terse email saying she had lied & Luis, the administrator had lied rather than go through the hassles of calling another EGM. We told her that the community was pretty much a shambles. We now all were at liberty to do as we all liked as she had lost control. She told us she had forwarded the email to Luis. I was under the impression that the administrator takes his orders from the President & the President takes advice from the administrator. To pi*s us off further & likely to try to gain control Pam said in a letter to all owners when she said we should've received the minutes by then, that owners had been leaving their cars outside their properties in the roads (another rule, park on drive or in car spaces at end of road) & also dogs had been seen off leads within the community & she was going to have to take action if it continued. My OH said he'd leave our car where he wanted though he's never left it on road outside our property. Ironically, we often fuss an ex President's little dog as Dave walks her past our place. Anyway it seems to be a case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted now with Pam attempting to control the situation she has got herself & the committee into.

Oh, I feel heaps better for that rant.  

Hey Roberto, I await the outcome in terms of time, with bated breath!!

We have had our garage area swept, as I already said on some post or other, and we are waiting for 'them' to clean it with water ( hope they don't manage to get it into the lift shafts!!).

We have the electronics working on the 'in' door but not even connected on the 'out' door. My Hubby has electronic keys to be given ONLY to those persons on the list who have actually purchased a space. Somehow ( don't even ask!!) several persons have aquired the original key to the 'in' and 'out' doors so are now forcing the electronic door open so they can park their cars inside the garage, even tho they have not paid the 6,600€ for the space.

They will be b******d soon tho cos the builder is going to take out the key lock so they can't use it that way and I shall develop sudden agrophobia when they want me to let them and their car out of the garage!!

Oh, and by the way, the lights that we were so pleased to have working in the DARK garage area have failed!!

RESULT! This week the builders turned up to put a new manhole in the garage, giving us access to the one pipe that we previously couldn't clean properly after heavy rain, which causes the garage to flood and block the drains. This problem was caused by a 90 degree bend in the pipes, which did not correspond to the plans (see previous post - sorry if this is a bit confusing, but I know what I mean!) The easiest way to locate this point (in the absence of plans, that is) would be with the use of a sensor device, but being cheap charlies, the developer didn't want to pay to hire one, so instead they paid two lackeys to dig.....in the end a three metre long trench taking 4 days trying to locate the pipe!

It took four years for the community to get this far with the developer. Of course, this won't stop the garage flooding, and we still have to decide on whether to take legal action against the council to try to get something done about it. But at least next time the drains block, preventing the flood water draining away after the rain, we will be able to call the council out again, and they will be able to clean ALL the drains.

My co-owners were all impressed that I managed to achieve this much....so for an encore, at last night's annual community meeting, I resigned my post as president .

It caused such an uproar, that we had to deal with all the other matters on the agenda (not many really because I've dealt with pretty much everything that needed dealing with) before returning to the issue of who would take over. The problem is, being a very small community, in which only 4 owners actually live year round (the others being either rented long term, or used as second / holiday homes) there are very few options. Two of us have done two year stints each, leaving the other two, one of whom said he couldn't do it because he didn't want to, and besides, he works hard enough to pay his mortgage and just wants a quiet life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is now vice-president, and the other owner is president, much to her disgust.

We discussed the possibility of painting the building last night, and this morning a contractor who the administrator had called, turned up to quote for the job. Our new president, whose number the admin had given him, promptly called me, and asked me to come and talk to him, as she "couldn't remember" what parts of the building we had agreed to paint.

Ho hum. Just like America. Once a president...always Mr.President, eh?

....and so it continues.

Some of you may remember that one of my long running problems while president concerned a very tempermental garage door. This problem really didn't want to go away, but after much perseverance, I finally put it to bed, and for the last 6 months at least, there has not been any problems associated with it. Toady, one of the neighbours called the administrator to say they couldn't open the door, and the administrator rang me. Apologised for calling, but the new president wasn't home, so could I help? Will there ever be any peace?!

(I was not home, so politely said I couldn't help, but suggested the new vice-president may be able to)

Roberto; you seem to have done a goo0d job in your time as presidente, you say everything runs smoothly and i would say you had everything under control.........so why let it all go to rack and ruin with a new presidente that perhaps doesnt have the same tenacity as you and in 6 months time you will become the Harry Enfield of the community continually saying "You dont want to do it like that!!!!!"

Communities succeed or fail on their presidency - yours seemed to be succeeding, what will you do if things start to slip? i dont think you will walk away you will step up and sort it.

We had a similar problem, and yes we found that our presidents would spend upwards of 12 hours a week (1.5 days) on community issues, which they didnt mind doing but it became to much as a voulenteer. So as a community we decided that this effort should be rewarded and we agreed at our AGM that as the presidente paid their community fees, the following day they would receive an expenses contribution for being presidente, back for the same sum, therefore in essence giving the presidente the privilidge of "freedom of the community" in return for sorting everything out on the complex. For 90% of the residents the system seems to work, but with so many personalities and nationalites living together there are always the 10% who dont get on and begrudge the expenses, but are generally not prepared to do the presidents job themselves, so you have to work with this and have a united nations peacekeeping committee member as well!!!

I dont think that there would have been anyone voting against this resolution on your community.......as in reality only a small number of people could take on the role and none of them wanted it.

This expenses refund on our community also opens up the opportunity for someone who is organised living in the UK to become presidente, if they have a good vice presidente and are able to spend at least 1 long weekend a month plus 4-6 weeks holidays in spain to do the meetings and paperwork, the community fees generally cover the flight costs for the year, which opens up a lot more opportunities for the community.

I would have suggested that the 4 of you become the committee and do as we do take responsibility for certain aspects of running the community, one person does a monthly walk around with the administrator to look at general maintenance issues and then co-ordinates these through the "things to do" sheet with the administrator, presidente and local suppliers, someone else takes responsibility for the gardener and the gardens, someone else looks after the meetings, agendas, minutes, communications to residents and website for the community, someone else is treasurer who's responsibility it is to see that all bills have actually done what was required, satisfactorily. The presidente ensures that everything on the community is kept up to standard, he deligates to the relevant committee members and answers all the paperwork queries, emergencies and sorts out the noisy neighbours, troublesome holidaymakers and gets the drunks out the pool at 2 am........ all the hassle!

On our committee, some of this is done from the UK with visits for the quarterly meetings by all the committee, where we get a financial update to see what is happening on our community. "Many hands make light work" and it seems to work for us. properties are reselling reguarly on our complex, so the goal of having well kept buildings and gardens ensures the complex always has a wow factor for owners, holidaymakers and prospective purchasers.

If you can get a team to share the load  it's a highly recommended formula for protecting your investment.

If you are interested to see the sort of information we put on our community website for owners take a look at have a look at our community website:  www.golfgardensmiraflores.co.uk

Good Luck Roberto and look forward to your blogs on being a surrogate presidente this year!!!!!!

I was under the impression that names were put in a hat & drawn out for a new President (if no one wanted the "job", that is). Whoever was unlucky to draw the short straw, so to speak, got lumbered with it for a year. Isn't that right, Roberto or have I been having nightmares ?

I think I inadvertantly gave the impression I was up for a VP's job when I was over this last time. Couldn't do worse than our current lot. I can lie as well as the next if need be so I'd be ideal. At least if I was on the committee as a non resident I'd get to hear what the **** they were doing half the time.  You'd never have thought my OH & I were at the same EGM in September as the administrator or the President & committee. Minutes suddenly arrived in February 2008 for the September 2007 EGM & it said votes were taken for this, that & the other when no votes were taken at all. To make it worse the administrator said what the outcome of the votes were.  Needless to say we & others have complained. We won't be there in June for the AGM & to be honest, we are kind of glad.

We would support our President 200% if she didn't take liberties but to blatantly lie rather than call a second EGM as she should've done was underhand. Our letter of complaint was forwarded by her to our administrator. I was under the impression the administrator was there in his capacity to advise the President but it was the President who had the last call. Oh I could go on & on about our community. There's no control & we are now all doing as we want as it's a farce.

Ian (Promedia), thanks for your comments. My neighbours obviously all feel I have done a good job too, because they unanimously voted for me to continue in the role, which was very flattering, but I feel I have done my bit and just want a break. You are right of course, I don't want things to slip, and if they do I will not turn a blind eye. I think your idea of the four permanent residents forming a commitee and jointly taking responsibility is spot on, but unfortunately I know who the bulk of the work will fall to and it's only by insisting that the others step up to the plate and do their term (as the Horizontal Law dictates) that they will ever actually do anything. (Jennifer48 - if nobody volunteers, Morerosado is right, it goes to a lucky dip; if the existing president had to do another year under such circumstances, there would never be a change of president!)

The new president is already finding excuses to avoid dealing with anything, and just this evening I was called into a neighbour's home because they wanted to talk to me about the garden. They just won't accept that I am not their caretaker / maintenance man / trouble shooter etc etc. But if you don't train, you can't blame, so I can see my job over the forthcoming weeks or months is going to be to show the new president & vice president how everything works, and how to deal with whatever situations may arise, and also to explain, nicely, to my neighbours, that they should now speak to the new president about any community issues that concern them.

Of course, I will always be willing to lend a hand, as I want our community to continue to run as smoothly as possible and be a pleasant place to live, and to protect our investment for the future. But I do feel that I have got things to a point now where there is no reason for the others not to do their share of the work. It really shouldn't be too much of a chore now. The best news is, that we have absolutely no bad debtors, and perhaps equally important, everybody gets on well, and even if they don't necessarily want to get involved, they all genuinely want to keep the community on a sure footing. The same cannot be said for many communities.

Can I come live with you, Roberto ?

Actually this last trip we didn't worry about community problems & it was far more laid back. If we want balustrades we shall have balustrades !! We shan't be fussed about asking if the President "minds", she let herself have anything she wanted when she had her garden done (balustrades too) so no one cares about appeasing her. Actually many in our road are going to have anything they want too without asking. We, along with others, have had quotes for various work to be done & those who have been in touch with the President have just said "we are having a, b & c done" full stop ! If she decides it's not "on" she didn't take others to court so she won't take us. She's created a right rod for her own back. (Planning permission from town hall not needed for the work, by the way).

Hi Roberto

Once again an excellent post from you on Community issues.  I only wish our Community was the same.  Out of just over 100 properties we have 26 debtors and properties are being handed back to the bank on a monthly basis so I can only see this problem increasing.  Being the President for four years (first my partner and now me),  we have managed to build up a substantial emergency funds and are constantly making cutbacks on non essentials so we should not end up in liquidation as many of the neighbouring Communities are doing.

We (the Vice President Committee and myself) are constantly striving to let our absent (majority) owners know what is going on in THEIR urbanisation (  http;//solgolfblogspot.com )but still have the usual faction who are, and will never be satisfied,  with the situation whatever we do.

As they say you cannot please all of the people all of the time!

Denise & Ian, you sound just the kind of people I'd love to have on our committee.

Our problem is we have 54 detached homes on our community & only 10 residents are there permanently. It's been the same for three years & actually a few have moved from the UK within the last few months otherwise residents totalled 7. (On our road of 20 homes, 10 each side, we have three residents ! There was only one before the others moved over around 6 months ago. (Community is around three years old now).

The committee don't want a non resident on the committee & we tend to get to hear s*d al* because no one can work a pc well enough to stay in touch. The first email from the latest President also had all owners email addresses on as committee didn't know how to use the BCC facility. I'd told the previous President that we didn't want our email address shown to all owners & the new President said she would correct that . Anyway I've been saving any community emails in a folder & will contact those owners if I feel the urge coming on.

Our next AGM is on June 2nd &, as usual, we won't be there as we'd booked for going over June 9th before the AGM date was set. Can't wait to hear what goes on at that one but with things the way they have been run we will only know true account if friends from community attend. Minutes are not a true account from past experience. Non residents only know through an email from President or admin & they lie so it's a right dilemma. I don't want this to sound as if I'm knocking the President & her committee as I can hear tut tuts from here  but I do feel that if people accept a certain role they do it well or allow others to try their hand. We had a great first President but there were a couple of owners who didn't think he was & gave him a lot of grief, even threatened him over some points & he resigned as the worry was causing his & his wife's health to suffer but now these people would give their right arm to have our first President back. It's a hard job I appreciate but, to be able to support a President, we need less bulls**t happening.