How does a Community Work?

Hi Morerosado

Can you ask for the date of forthcoming A.G.M.´s to be on the agenda for this year?  We always have ours the first Saturday in December (our Community was formed around then four years ago), and the date of the following A.G.M. is stated on the invitation to the previous one so is voted on.  This allows owners nearly a full year to make travel plans.  Also we advertise on the website and on the notice board for owners to submit items for the agenda, this way everyone gets heard.  In addition, at the suggestion of a non resident owner , we changed the system of proxy votes while still keeping within the Horizontal Land Law.  The forms still have to be signed and a proxy nominated, but  all the items on the agenda have a yes or no tick box against them.  This way the wishes of the owners are counted and not those of the person standing proxy.  As President (as in usually the case) my partner and I are given the majority of proxy votes but by using this system owners get what the majority want not what the officials think they want.

The problem you have with non residents is the same here and I would surmise on several urbanisations.  Out of over 100 apartments on our Urbanisation we have 10 residents and five of them are tenants.  Before anyone jumps in here we have no problem with tenants without them we would have more repossesions then we already have (6) and we involve everyone in our Community as much as we can.  We have a resident President (me) and two resident Vice Presidents (in case one of them is at work or out of the country in an emergency) and the Committee is made up of non residents.  These days with the aid of internet and cheap phone calls to the U.K. this works very well.  We try to have Committee meetings whenever the non resident members are here just to keep everyone involved and also to listen to their ideas from a non resident view, e.g. are they informed etc.  Minutes of all Committee meetings are placed on the website and the Community notice board.

Even so saying all this we still have a band of disgruntled owners who seem to think everything we do is wrong (and I mean everything)

Hi Denise

It sounds so easy when you say it. I don't mean anything by that. Your idea of a website is great. I feel what you say is the way we'd want it. I think our trouble is no one (President or committee) really understands what they're doing as no one has done it before. If we contact our President over something which she can't (or doesn't want to) answer she just forwards our email to the administrator who never replies. It's got to the point where we see little point these days in commenting about anything.

Our first AGM was mid-late July 2005 which is a month we'd not want to go out in because we find it far too hot. It obviously was felt that owners with families would likely be out at that time so more owners would attend. We're lucky if we get to hear the date for the next AGM a month before, never mind a year before !! I did email our last President on this & she then arranged the last AGM for a couple of days before last May BH but then people wouldn't go over as flights were so expensive.

We've spoken with other non residents who say they'd never attend any meetings as they consider they're over for a holiday & don't want anything stopping them enjoying that. They say they would get involved if it affected them. Sad to say that's the view we opted to take on this recent trip, apart from asking a resident friend to act as our proxy for 2nd June AGM, though he & his Swedish wife are so disillusioned with community life, they've bought in Sweden so are selling up in Spain. They hope (!!) to sell soon as agent has told them there's many Scandinavian people asking about properties. They've been on the market at least a year & I think are holding out for a good price so could likely be there for next years AGM too.

Personally I think committee meetings are just another coffee morning for our President & her committee. We tell Karensun & her OH, who is a President ,about much of what goes on in our community & Karen's OH has said certain things are illegal & he listens in total disbelief at some things we tell him.

Must tell you a "funny" story about our last trip. We love a certain Spanish restaurant in Guardamar near Georgia's office (I put a review in the restaurant thread some time again ... it's called JAEN'S) &, having managed to "escape" seeing our President for two weeks (she lives behind us & by the wheely bins so not bumping into her is quite an achievement), we were quite relaxed. Six of us went to eat in the evening at Jaen's. Many people kept piling in through the door leading from the street & I said to my OH, who was opposite me but at the opposite end of the long table big enough for ten persons, "wouldn't it be funny if a crowd from our community arrived ?". He looked at me & said "keep your voice down, ** is on next table !! " Sure enough our President with her husband & four friends, one being the builder we expect to have put ballistrades on our front walls too, were on the next table. Thank goodness the vino tinto hadn't loosened my tongue, I tell you !

Hola

Thought that i would pass on some good news from our community, we were going into our last AGM unhappy with our administrators as debtors were increasing 100% year on year, we were up to 50,000 euro's outstanding. enough was enough. So a number of residents went and found a new administrator who had been doing a good job on a friends community, she said all the right things as they all do, but we had a testimonial as well and so extra proxy votes were collected and a motion to have the administrators changed was presented to the shocked presidente after a quick numbers count to ensure the motion would be passed when it went to a vote.

Sorry to say, but a number of residents did not like the way in which the change was made and thought it underhand, this bad feeling has carried on for a year, but nobody really cares as everyone else gets on with things and the decision has more than proved successful .But if it had been left and done any other way we would have given them another year to get things sorted and that would have been a nightmare. The new administrator was waiting outside and was brought in when the motion was carried. The old administrators left and the new team took over. it is worth remembering that you can only change your administrator at the AGM.

It hasnt been easy we must admit because the old administrator was extremely slow in delivering the community documents over (2 months later if i remember correctly!) However we created a new committee of people that wanted to get things done and more importantly wanted the value of their investment to rise rather than fall.

12 months on the administrators have performed for us,  we are going to our AGM with about only 15,000 euros outstanding from debtors, they recommended we raised our community fees by 25% at that AGM and then we also implemented a 20% discount for prompt payment of community fees, (this has raised over 10,000 extra euro's for the community this year so far from owners that predominently arent on direct debits and forget to send their money- currently only about 6 owners from 60)

If there is one piece of advice i can give any new community its - get your lawyer on the case after 2 community payments have been missed, i cannot tell you how much difference it makes when legal letters start being delivered and embargo's on people selling their properties are applied by the courts.

Name and shame lists in every stairwell notice board also has a massive impact - we have got back in over 35,000 euro's and we only expect to have real problems with 2 owners in the end, one that hasnt been near the place in 2 years and we believe may have died! and secondly an owner that rents out their apt long term, the tennants community tv is about to be turned off and we are looking at what other community paid for services we can withdraw from the renters to get them to put pressure on the owners to pay up.- they are reguarly the only people living in their stairwell, it will be a shame when their lift packs in and theres no money to repair it, until the day someone else comes over for a holiday!!!

So all in all the change of administrators is a worthwhile exercise if things are going wrong on your community.

We have always said that the administrator should be the Bad cop, enforcing the laws of the community and the presidente the good cop neighbour, that nicely points out when something is wrong or annoying the community. You cannot have 2 good cops it wont work. our old administrator loved everyone and wouldnt get into conflict, why should they , they were getting paid anyway.

I would highly recommend Lazara, the owner of Intercala Administrators in La Cala (opp the horse shop and main supermarket) to any local community that is in need of a shake up...it worked for us and they do a lot of hand holding to ensure our community gets the best costs on work and what's more helpful is that their tradesmen turn up quicly and when the should do and do a good job. theres a link from our community website

If you want a quick read of how we have got things changed over the last year you can view the Forum pages on our community website at www.golfgardensmiraflores.co.uk   and read the trials and tribulations we have gone through to get our community solvent and running a lot more efficiently.

As a committee, we are just preparing our budget for next year, i'll post another answer on how we have gone about this, as it was a good learning curve for all of us and may be helpful to other communities.

Keep smiling you lot in th sun......only another 8 weeks until i'm back on the CdS for our AGM

Who pays the community fees when the bank repossesses? Somehow, I can't see the banks stumping up the cash while they wait to auction the property off.

Promedia described a system for helping to resolve the issue of bad payers, that we also implemented. I've posted about it before, but for any who are not quite clear how it works, I'll explain it again. Once the annual budget has been worked out, an extra 25% is lumped on top, and put under the category of "legal reserve" or some such invention. Every body's quota is then calculated, to include the extra 25%. Then, a 20% discount is offered to all who pay by direct debit, or by the 15th day of each payment period (in our case, each quarter). So, if for example your quota would normally be €100, with 25% added on it becomes €125. Discount of 20% for prompt payment brings it back to €100. Simple but effective, and by the way, perfectly legal! Since we started this, our two persistent non-payers have paid up on time, every time.

The other problem that many community related posts seem to highlight is that of absentee owners, and a resulting apathy, lack of communication and understanding, and also a shortage of suitable candidates for presidency, often leading to the job being done reluctantly, resentfully and therefore ineffectively. Those who are familiar with my rantings on EOS may be aware of my dislike of large, new urbanizations in previously undeveloped areas, often with little or no infrastructure in place. But many people have bought in such places and are now experiencing community problems which, if not actually caused by, are certainly exacerbated by, the fact that so few people actually live there permanently. Of course, not all such communities are bad, but for anyone considereing buying somewhere similar, I would suggest that you seriously consider the implications, or at least do your very best to find out as much about the community as possible. And of course, not all long-established communities in city centres run well either, but I for one would not be keen to buy in a community where I know many owners are not resident.

Just for the record, I think Ian (Promedia) and Denise are both shining examples of committed owners who refuse to allow their community to descend into anarchy, and they should be applauded . Their efforts in creating and maintaining a community website, tackling all the usual problems, and especially posting their experiences here for the benefit of others, go some way to restoring one's faith in the basic good and integrity of others. Thank you both.

Just for the record, I think Ian (Promedia) and Denise are both shining examples of committed owners who refuse to allow their community to descend into anarchy, and they should be applauded . Their efforts in creating and maintaining a community website, tackling all the usual problems, and especially posting their experiences here for the benefit of others, go some way to restoring one's faith in the basic good and integrity of others. Thank you both.

Echoed here  & Roberto, you are well thought of too, I hasten to add. Your posts as a President were very informative & as an ex President you continue to inform & enlighten.

I cannot understand why you seem surprised by all this Roberto!!

What always amazes me is just what 'the Community' think the Presidente is responsible for.....................................yesterday morning at 1.30am our door phone rang.............................the lady had been to the pub and forgotten her main door key!! Then tonight about 9am she rang again to say........guess what.................she'd forgotten her main door key again!! Just a bit worried cos she's only been here two days and she's staying till September!!

Karen, you are far too accommodating. I would've left her out, only way to make her understand IT IS JUST NOT ACCEPTABLE !!!

Roberto, take a holiday without your mobile.

Roberto

Why not get a sticker and secretly put it on the front gate by the bell saying Presidente No 123 also get a big piece of paper and stick it to your door for a few weeks or in the lift as well saying, "Your new presidente is XXXXXX and she lives at apt no 123. please do not disturb Roberto who is now taking a well earned rest.    People who ignore this notice do so at their own risk from my doberman"

Might work but there again the thick and drunks cannot read

I'm not really surprised - but nevertheless, it's frustrating. I actually think it's perfectly reasonable for the incoming president to need a "handing over" period, even though I got nothing of the sort. I deliberately made a list of key issues, and went over everything I could think of that the new president might need to know, but it's made little difference.

I like your thinking, promedia, but ours is such a small community that everybody already knows who the new president is. They also know that my Doberman is actually only a black and white moggy who I saved from near death in our garden a couple of years ago, and who has thoroughly enjoyed his elevated status as Presidential Cat for two years - and yes, he enjoys the same privileges for life as Retired Presidential Cat, so long as he is still capable of burying his doo-doos on the now rare occasions he ventures into communal spaces. And Morerosado, he is also the reason I can't take a holiday - he's a bit needy, you see.

As promedia points out, there's no accounting for drunks and idiots. At last year's AGM, I made a specific point on the agenda about garage keys, and the responsibility of owners to ensure that their tenants have all the necessary keys. But twice in the last fortnight, someone who rents just a garage space has been unable to get their car out of the garage because their remote control was not working (probably needs a new battery, which the community is obviously not  going to supply), and the owner of the space had not supplied them with the keys to open the door manually. Today, this person rang the president's doorbell to ask for help - and she promptly referred them to me! At least it wasn't 1:30 in the morning. When we ran our own accommodation business a few years ago, there was an occasion when I had to get out of bed at 4 in the morning to let a client in; he had gone sleep walking into the street without his keys - because he had no pocket to put them in. In fact, he had no clothes on at all. But he was a paying client. Now there's nothing in it for me, except for good neighbourly relations. I'm just going to have to toughen up.

Retired Presidential Cat

Can I go to bed now please ?

Hi Denise

You posted your blog details in this thread 18 Apr 2008 10:15 AM & I really wanted to read it but link you gave http;//solgolfblogspot.com  won't work. I've tried http://solgolfblogspot.com using a colon rather than your semicolon & http://www.solgolfblogspot.com but these don't work either. 

Could you post it again & check it's correct please.

Thanks.

Thanks Denise.

I wish someone on our committee could do this. We are like mushrooms, left in the dark.

I may be great at posting daft pictures on forums but I'd be lost doing a blog, Denise. Seeing as our President, & the President before her, cannot even get to grips with simple things like ccs & bccs in their emails I doubt if they could blog.