Want to turn dream to reality

Hi I am Sue

I am new to this site and decided to ask for experience and advice.

Myself and partner want to move to Mazarron CC. I am 44 he is 55. I am very nervous of giving up work to make this a reality as I have a very well paid job that will not transfer (I work in pharma but don't speak Spanish...YET). He has his own building business and hopes to  travel back and forth. The advice we have been given is to keep home in UK this means long term lets for a few years I am hoping to take an income of about a £1000 a month from that.

I am aware there is no work but think I will need to do something to supplement a small income....is this a reality ? I have a social work and healthcare background.

i do worry about all I read on how corrupt things can be but people seem to keep saying do it.....My partner is packed and ready to leave I suppose I am a little more risk adverse !!!!

Any advice is gratefully received  many thanks in advance.

Kindest Regards

Sue

It's not easy to advise without knowing more of your own personal circumstances, only you and your husband can make that decision, it's easy for me to say go for your dreams but this forum has a lot of cynical people ready to shoot me down and will tell you to stay in England, research and more research is needed, good luck I hope you do achieve it if it's your dream.

Hi Sue.

Retaining your UK home is very sensible advice. Do not burn all your bridges until you have dipped in the water. The income from your UK property will not provide sufficient income to live on if you intend to rent in Spain. You will need to cost in health care fees, utility bills which are high in Spain especially in the winter. Some taxes and perhaps community fees, although these are owners costs but end up being passed on to the tenant. Then there is running a car and converting everything to Spanish requirements.

There are many charity organisations you could be involved with especially animals. Employment is very difficult to find even for the Spanish. Do not think you can just walk into a job of your choice.

Spain is not for everyone. The country has a great climate, friendly people and a relaxed lifestyle. It attracts people who come on holiday and believe they can live that way forever. Ask yourself if you can live without regular contact with family and friends, lower disposable income and the sophistication of on tap facilities of Britain.

Best of luck.

MCC is just down the road from me.

Do you realise that for most of your needs, banks, supermarket, pharmacy, medical centre, restaurants, vets,bars, social clubs etc -you will need to travel to Camposol, as MCC has very little in the way of amenities

MCC also has to pay community fees in addition to IBI ( council tax)

You will have to pay income tax in Spain on your rental income from your UK home, and even if you don't rent it out, the Spanish tax office will tax you as if you do- it's called Imputed income tax.

You will need private health cover for one year, ( probably won't cover you for existing conditions, or, if they do, have very expensive premiums)then you can pay into the Convenio especial,  at 60 euros per person per month.which entitles you to the same healthcare as a Spanish national, but you will pay full price for prescription medication.

If you are on expensive medication this could affect the budget

You will have to sign on the foreign citizens register.

Requirements are stricter now, could be 6000 euros each in the bank, or 600 euros  each per month,or both

You will need proof of health cover.

You will have to pay income tax in Spain on all your world wide income,  including savings, Isas, except government pensions, which did not previously have to be declared in Spain, but from this year will be, though continuing to be taxed in UK.

Things that are tax free in UK pension lump sums, premium bonds/lottery winnings, matured savings plans will be liable for capital gains tax in Spain.

If you sell your UK house, you will pay CGT on the profit in Spain

If you have a assets outside Spain which add up to 50 k or more in each category of savings, investments or property, you will have to declare them in minute detail on a special assets declaration form.

Lots of research needed then. Lots of info on expat info sites and forums.

You are wise to be cautious! I am not trying to put you off, but I am telling you the things estate agents and others do not!

Research inheritance tax, allowances against this vary from region to region,and Murcia abolished theirs in 2013

Two minor corrections to Camposol's comments .... firstly you will pay UK tax on your UK house rental (property rental income is only paid in the country where the property is situated).  Secondly you will not be eligible to get into the Spanish NHS via the Convenio Especial until you have been legally resident for a full year.  By this I mean having signed on the Registro do Ciudadanes del EU (which used to be called "having residencia"), and it will take a little while to become resident, as to do that you have to show you have health cover and the regular income or a lump sum as Camposol correctly described.  

There is obviously a real irony in this - you cannot get Spanish NHS cover until you are resident, and you cannot get residency until you show health cover.  In the past, most of us were given a "bridge" by the UK government in the form of an S1 document which gave us about 18 months of health cover paid for by the UK (I am talking here about people not working in Spain but not yet in receipt of a UK state pension).  This S1 cover enabled us to get residency, and now my S1 is expiring I am signing up for Spanish NHS via the Convenio Especiale.  But S1s have stopped now so you don't have this luxury I'm afraid.

Sorry to get all technical but I thought those two points needed correcting.  Other than that, I'm on the "ooh yes, just do it!!" side of the fence - I'm 56 and it's the best thing I ever did!  Good luck :-)

Thank you so much for all your input these are all very valid and we need to know the tax stuff. They seem to tax on everything gulp !!! 

Campasol many  thanks and yes we know area quite well. We like the quiet of MCC but know the amenities are on our doorstep too......we are both healthy and can drive so not issue at moment but definitely a consideration further down the line !

i want to live a fairly simple life not a holiday lifestyle. I suppose the one thing we have to consider is our revenue. Can I ask ( not sure how PC) but if you keep uk property, bank acct and address can espana seek tax from me. Can you stay a certain amount of time then return to uk for a few weeks ? Do you have to become a national ?

cheers

sue

Income tax on property in UK-are you sure about that? I thought it had to be paid in the country where you are living?

Perhaps it is declared in both countries, but tax declared in UK is deducted on the declaration in Spain?

Someone will put us right!

Another point

Where will Sue's husband pay his tax, she said he will go back and forth- depends how many days he Spends in Spain, or because his main residence is in Spain, will he pay it here anyway?

It's not ideal having to travel back and forth, stressful , and could be expensive

They are young to retire,there's a lot to consider here

Sue - yes they do seem to tax everything. If your finances mean you have to fill in the assets declaration, then the Spanish tax man will require 

Name, number of bank account, when started, iban number, how much in it etc, so there is no hiding place and information is exchanged between HMRC and the Hacienda(spanish tax office)

No you can't hide from the Spanish taxman by using a UK account.

Some do live ( under the radar" but  somehow I doubt you will want to go down that route.

After 183 days( not consecutive)  or before that, in some cases,in Spain you are a tax resident.

If you have any large amounts of money eg pension lump sum, inheritance coming your way, you would pay tax on it in Spain, so you should consult an adviser familiar with both UK and Spanish tax matters

You will have to seek professional advice on your husbands tax status.

After 90 days in Spain you will have to sign on the foreign citizens register( incorrectly termed residencia, by some)

I know you both drive now, but things can change.you can feel isolated when one of you is hospitalised for a significant amount of time. In the area where you want to live, the bus service is inadequate and infrequent. The main hospital is an hour away.

You say the one thing to consider is your revenue- there are many more things!

You say you want a simple life- Spain is many things but it is not simple!

Hi Sue,

There's some good advice, but I think the tax thing is being a bit over emphasised.  The Spanish "council tax" is a fraction of the UK equvalent - we have a 3 bed villa and pay 20% of what we pay in the UK. 

We've opted to keep 2 houses and not become Spanish resident and therefore not subject to Spanish income tax.  That means that in theory we cannot stay in Spain for more than 183 days a year.  Which is fine with us, but I say in theory as some don't obey the 183 day rule and no-one bothers.  So income tax etc is not an issue for us - if you're keeping a UK property you might want to do the same.

MCC is a good choice, the build quality there is top notch and it's a good community with plenty of social events.

The prospects of employment are not good, but they are improving slowly.  Fluency in Spanish was a pre-requisite, but not totally so these days as there are some sectors, particularly leisure, where the Brits are the important customers.  So you might get lucky, but a crash course in Spanish would do no harm.

You say you want a simple life- Spain is many things but it is not simple!

How true!

You can only live under the radar for a short time. The longer you do it the more complicated it becomes. Ask yourself would you behave like that in UK? If the answers no then why in Spain? The people who try it eventually leave in a hurry rather than wait for a bucket of grief to descend on their head. Many years ago you could do it. Spain is now a main stream EU state with all that implies.

There are professional people who will help you with all the formalities. They are called Gestorias, some are good some not so good. Ask around for a recommendation.

There will always be those with a casual attitude to tax, but at the end of the day, it's not up to the Hacienda to prove how many days you've spent in Spain, it's up to you to prove it to them.

For us the time spent in Spain is never going to be an issue.  It's never even close to 6 months.  But I was chatting to a Brit who had lived in Mazarron for 10 years and only been back a few times for Xmas in that period and he maintained non resident status   He seemed to be aware that he should be paying income tax etc to Spain he didn't seem to give a hoot.  I'm sure he's not alone either.

Yes I know they are being very naughty, so please spare me the lecture.  But the Spanish authorities are so laid back on these issues that they bring it on themselves.  We've never been close to the 6 month limit in the 15 years we've owned a property in Spain, but no-one has ever posed the question. 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a fair percentage of Brits living in Spain that don't even know that they are obliged to register.  I know some don't seem to pay any taxes, not even the notional non-resident income tax.  That is the reality.

II'm sure you're right . There are a lot of ignorant people among us

They're usually the ones who say Spain is a stress free  place to live, and SO much cheaper, which I suppose it is if their tax liability is ignored.

I can only hope they get their comeuppance

Duplicated

MCC is a dead zone use to be called MCC golf when thay where building people that bought on the site started to ask where is the golf  club thay where coned their wasn't one .

 Compaired to the likes of Camposol just up the road which has every amenity that you could wish for just wondering if you have bought or renting.

MCC is a dead zone use to be called MCC golf when thay where building people that bought on the site started to ask where is the golf  club thay where coned their wasn't one .

 Compaired to the likes of Camposol just up the road which has every amenity that you could wish for just wondering if you have bought or renting.

Yes acer and when the person who owes 10 years back taxation is caught they will be the first to howl at the moon crying so unfair. They are also the same people who grumble constantly about the country they defraud. Visit any Brit bar and you will see them all there. Working for cash ignoring every rule in the book. and believing themselves to be bullet proof.

Their comeuppance is a matter of time. The Spanish are not as laid back or as stupid as they think.

Thank you so much for all the comments today.

I am in no way on this to find out or seek to understand how to dodge tax.... if anything I want to understand the facts so that I do not run into any problems ( hence why i said I am risk adverse - am a bonified high tax payer for 26 years.. but I want to make sure I dont pay twice if that makes sense)

What I appreciate is the insight that you have all been able to offer me and I am very appreciative.

My dream is to move for the better for me and my partner... I say simple as in I am not expecting this to be easy and better but different and rewarding I have not been fortunate enough to have children so am thinking part two of my life is all about me...I know that it wont be easy that is why I joined this website as I wanted to tap into the experience of those that know and I really do appreciate it - good and bad we need to know.

At first we will long term let not buy which was our initial though.... get an understanding of lifestyle, ammenities, healthcare and also if this really suits us as a couple - I have family but they are all over the world - truth if I could move to USA I would I could continue to work and get climate but its just not happening at our age.

I thank you all again and will take heed of your comments and do alot more investigation but I am lucky to be in a position that means I will take my time.

Thank you again

Sue

PS Windtaker I have been many times and I absolutely hear what you are saying campasol is not for us to live but is very good to have close by I also worry about feeling isolated at MCC.... which is why we want to long term let at this stage just to dip the toe.... :-)

I'm not getting into a debate on the ethics of those who either decide not to register, or even those who don't know they should.  That's up to them.  But I do believe that the Spanish authorities are far too laid back on this and most other issues.  They make little or no attempt to communicate with the ex-pat community, so it's unsurprising some don't know! 

I was negotiating to buy a another property in Spain recently and the vendor, a Spanish lady, was insistent that we under declare the sale price "this is the Spanish way" she told me a dozen times.  We fell out on this and a few other details.  But clearly the locals still don't like paying their fair share of tax and presumably don't believe the "come uppance" you guys mention is a reality.  So I'm not going to be the guy that preaches to others.

Windtaker, I do not know what you mean by a "dead zone" but we are all entitled to our own choice and I can understand Sue's selection.  Lot's of purchasers have been conned, including those who bought from Massa, but if you buy now, rather than off plan there's less likely to be any surprises.

Incidentally the property I was seeking to buy is in Isla Plana, but there are half a dozen other places which are all lovely in the Mazarron area.  It depends what you want - just a matter of personal choice.