Would you shop anyone?

I like the idea of actually reaching the airport and would assume that if a legal taxi broke down that the Spanish cavalry would arrive. I pay my gardeners back home cash in hand because they do a good job and don't fly tip, however I've never actually asked them if they declare it or not. Should everyone who is working legally in Spain wear or be able to produce something to confirm this? Our son when on a 1 year working holiday in Australia was always asked to produce his card by new employers.

Fraud is a criminal act. In the case of benefit fraud the victims are taxpayers and valid claimants.

Would you report someone who bragged about defrauding an individual out of money? Why is it any different just because the victim is faceless?

They aren't stealing from the government. They are stealing from real people.

Of course they are stealing from the taxpayer, Duncan. I have to agree with you and I don't condone it. The question was would I report it. My answer was probably not, unless it was blatent and on a grand scale. I just don't like the idea of spying on neighbours.

I must plead guilty to encouraging cash in hand payment for work done. We returned from Spain earlier this year to find that two ridge tiles had split due to extreme frost, half of one had landed on the drive. I did no more than to drive down to the reclamation yard and paid the guy a tenner for two tiles that matched my requirements. I then phoned my son's ex football team mate who is a self employed builder, he came up with a ladder (no scaffolding required if the job is being done by a self employed guy) legged it up to the roof and fixed the tiles, I paid him £50.00 cash in hand.

An 'honest' builder would have sent a scaffolder which would have cost a few hundred quid, there would then have been at least a couple of guys to supply shiny new tiles that looked odd at the side of the older ones, I would have received a large bill including VAT, but what the hell, I would have acted in an honest manner, wouldn't I?

I think the issue is if they are claiming benefits, but working as well. I have paid genuine workmen to do a 'homer', but they will already be paying tax ect on their daytime job. Now I am writing this, am thinking, 'oh my god, am I condoning defrauding the taxman'? But I do think there is a world of difference with lazy shites that refuse to go out and get a 'proper' job and claim every benefit known to man and the guy who is maybe making a bit extra on the side to help keep his family. I would not condone people 'spying' on their neighbours, but if they are bragging about it to all and sundry I would have no qualms about reporting them. And don't think there is a problem charging folk petrol money for a lift in a car if it is to somewhere you would not normally be going, that is just covering your costs for carrying out a good deed to help someone out.

Where I live in the UK there is a £500.00 bounty for shopping drink drivers that are successfully prosecuted and convicted. I understand that this has reduced drink driving to a miniscule amount, and before anyone asks, I don't use pubs anymore and have no idea what people drink in the confines of their own homes.

I think the answer is you can't really tell.

The builder who I usually emloy to do smaller repairs around the house is a bit of an Excel whizz and his bills look very professional, listing everything down to the smallest details and material costs broken down at the level of cents, but always magically adding up to the precise amount he quoted, which is strangely always a round number. Now anybody can write IVA this amount on an Excel sheet and I wouldn't dare to ask him if he is really paying that or pocketing it, just as I don't question whether that pot of paint really cost 2 Euros and 60 cents when it cost 3 Euros and 10 on the last job. I think you need to trust people to do their part. When he does smaller jobs, as in under 200 Euros or so, he normally doesn't even produce his Excel wizzardry but just says that's 200 Euros and sticks the bills in his back pocket (without even counting them). I don't know how he can remember what he did afterwards and so maybe tax on that smaller stuff is not being payed, but why should I get involved? 

I received the following in a PM (I won't name the author of the PM but suffice to say I have never had any contact with the author of teh PM at any time via PM or postings)

Report any Jews to the party !!!! this is a very slippery slope

is the author of the PM comparing shopping illegal taxi drivers with ........................

beggars belief how some people think but of cousre we all have our own views

I do not know why they did not post it on here

I suppose that it goes back to my school days, the kids who reported their schoolmates to teachers and prefects were detested by all and sundry, even the teachers did not respect them. I suppose that it comes down to where you draw the line, one thing that always makes me smile is our village's version of Del Boy who was always attempting to sell things, usually in the pub, I recall him producing vacum packed full fillets of beef from a cool box, he wanted £15.00 each for them, a pair of husband and wife head teachers started to question him as to why they were so cheap, he simply winked and tapped his nose, they couldn't get their cash out quick enough. I was having a drink with him following the cessation of business activities when he said, "If they start to get fussy, I just hint that it's nicked, it never fails".    

Amogels:-   Now anybody can write IVA this amount on an Excel sheet and I wouldn't dare to ask him if he is really paying that or pocketing it

If the receipt does not have an official IVA number then he ain’t paying it. 

Even my gestor gives me receipts from a book bought in a stationers shop, for her fees when I make my tax returns !!!!

the victims are taxpayers and valid claimants.

Duncan it is always the tax payer who is the victim whether it is benefit fraufd or working illegaly

working illegally normally means not paying taxes which means the tax payers have to pay for the servcies the non taxpayer gets for free

it is always the tax payer who is the victim whether it is benefit fraufd or working illegaly

Indeed, but others suffer too. Take Greece for example. Tax evasion is endemic. This has resulted in Greece not being able to pay the bills for welfare and other government services. This in turn has led to severe austerity measures where both the taxpayer pays more and those who deliver or rely on government services get less. Meanwhile the tax evaders live a happier life on the proceeds of their misery.

The problem that I see with society is that some people no longer see themselves as responsible for the enforcement of law and order. They are happy to delegate that responsibility to the police and other government employees. If they took a more active role in enforcing our laws there would be less crime and less costs involved in detecting and addressing crime.

Lots of people committing small crimes adds up to a large number of victims. 

The question really shouldn't be "Would you shop anyone?" it should be "Is it your responsibility to report a crime to the authorities?"

In answer to that, my response would be: if I had evidence that a crime had been committed I would pass it on to the authorities. However, I would not go out of my way to detect a crime and certainly would not report anything based on suspicion. Rather than being a "grass" or a "snoop", I would consider that to be the behaviour of a responsible member of society.

I'll get off my high horse now ...  

i cant believe any of you ex pats who are talking about shopping people for doing key holding , cleaning , taxi runs to the airport ect , or even the people who probably do work for YOU cheaper , even though you could pay more by going to a spanish company ..but greed gets you all anything to save a few quid ..thats exactly what these people are trying to do save you a few quid while making a few quid them selfs

now as for people on sickness benefits or anything related to sickness ..they are NOT eligble for work.. yes they may look fit and healthy , but are you a doctor ? do you know there illness ? do you know how it affects them ? so untill you do i suggest you stop posting crap about them and have the balls to say it to their face ..who knows you may even get a perfectly reasonable answer from them ..but no ..you would rather do it anonymous ha ha

now as for these poor people who have to serve you at a pub or a resteraunt who just might be getting paid cash in hand ..well do you complain as they are serving you ?  do you say ..sorry i cant have you serving me because you dont pay tax ? ..i very much doubt it ..so your just as bad for buying something or using someone in that situation.

as for unemployed not paying tax ...get a life .. EVERYONE pays tax ..even the unemployed , its called VAT.

the uk ecomomy is in the shit ..but its not as bad as spain most of the work in spain is seasonal so if thats the only way to make ends meet then good on them they aint hurting you at all ..you may find yourself in that situation one day.

oh and i bet you have uk tv to ...well thats illegal for a start ..check it out.

and just for the record ..yes i am in full time employment and i do pay my taxes just like everyone else ..but if i can get a job done cheaper ..cash in hand ..then i will do that and i wouldnt even think twice about it.

Dead right gritsy, many of the holier than thous, who swear total honesty can't even manage to obey the rules of this forum. I am 99% certain that the British kids waiting on tables at one of our favourite beach side bar-cafes are enjoying cash in hand working holidays, they look and sound like students who can't afford regular holidays, good luck to them. 

gristy

Good points but therein leis steh probelm we all try and save afew quid by supportingt hese people yet in tehlong term we all suffer as the taxes needed are left short. We seem to forget by saving a few quid the legal taxis ect. are suffering and they pay their dues, insurances, licences (same for key holders).

Woudl ove to here form alegal taxi and a legal key holder (or any small legal business that suffers as a result of all of tring to save a few quid! They pay licences and have VALID insurance

as for unemployed not paying tax ...get a life .. EVERYONE pays tax ..even the unemployed , its called VAT.

Yes but the income tax payers pay more than the non taxpayers who get a free (or cheaper) ride as they do not pay what they are supposed to - cheats

Maybe the one answer is nobody pays income  tax of NI and we hike up VAT to 55%  (and other unavoidable taxes on rent, house sales, cars, fuel, water, electricity, gas. food etc etc).

Anyone who REALLY need benefits then yes we should support., but thosee claiming benefits from UK whilst living (and even working) in Spain or those claiming benefits nd working - this has to be stopped

I recall reading about a guy who had recieved a £6million tax demand, he is an art cunnoissuer and had purchased a piece of art from a deceased estate for next to nothing, it coincidentally valued at £6million and was donated to a national museum thus negating his tax liability.

As the late Leona Helmsley once said, "Only the little people pay taxes", it's as true today as it was then. 

Ooh, hark at those who defend illegal traders with no guarantees on their work, no insurance to cover third party liabilities and no insurance to cover their employees. 

In the same breath attack the innocent victims of their crimes. 

Let's go back to common slavery? 

Removes tongue from cheek.... 

Duncan, I presume that you check the legitimacy of every person that you deal with for gain. We recently saved over £1,000 by paying our plumber cash in hand for converting our bathroom into a wet room, we have known him for donkey's years, I don't feel one pang of guilt.  

The police and government agencies rely too much, these days,  on the man in the street spying and reporting on folk to get results. About time these people realised that the tax payer is paying them then get off their backsides and investigate, as in the case of law enforcers, or double check before willy nilly handing out benefits to anyone who asks.

Duncan, I presume that you check the legitimacy of every person that you deal with for gain. We recently saved over £1,000 by paying our plumber cash in hand for converting our bathroom into a wet room, we have known him for donkey's years, I don't feel one pang of guilt.  

Either that plumber is a complete idiot, the job is rubbish or it was overpriced by the grand in the first place, no right minded business person in the land would lose over a grand just to save a small amount of income tax by not declaring it.

Of course this plumber could also be on the dole, out of the system.