Would you shop anyone?

Everyone is an idiot to you baz, ** EDITED**

Floella

The police and government agencies rely too much, these days,  on the man in the street spying and reporting on folk to get results. About time these people realised that the tax payer is paying them then get off their backsides and investigate, as in the case of law enforcers, or double check before willy nilly handing out benefits to anyone who asks.

I would agree greater checks are need in handing out benefits but that is not the job of the police

The public have always helped the police and long may it continue as they need as much help as they can get to ensure criminals get caught and prosecuted - where would we be without witnesses and how many criminals would still be out on the streets without the help of the man in the street??????

We may not have a legal obligation to report crime but IMO we really do have a moral obligation and we should be helping the victims (and the police) more

Everyone is an idiot to you baz, ** EDITED **

Nope not every one is an idiot to me, not at all, but if you were the complete business person you profess to be as you would so often care to shout about even you "Should" know the basic's of good old fashioned business rules when it comes to dropping as much as over a grand on a job just because you chose to pay cash in hand, we are not talking about a tenner for cutting grass here...

Also note it's the plumber you used that is the idiot, and they still are. So you can give the stereo type Northerner a rest some of the time.

** EDITED **

As a slight deviation from the OP post. We moved into a house in Oxford earlier this year which was listed. We decided to have the external stonework cleaned and some damaged features replaced. After sometime working with planning we received permission and instructed a stone mason to undertake the work. After completion and having had the work approved by planning we received a visit from trading standards who asked to see the various invoices we had received. After another week or so we received a visit from HMRC who also wanted to see and copy the paer work.

We now understand we may be required to give evidence as the folk we engaged to do the work had not been as truthful as they should have been to HMRC regarding the collection and payment of taxes. As we understand it the cheques were declared but the cash payments were not and this had been a regular practice by the staone mason for a while.

We await the case which is schedules for later this year.

Ross

HMRC are very good at following paper trails, however I always receive an annual letter from them informing me that I have underpaid tax, as I have a state pension paid gross and two private pensions taxed at source I can't understand why or how. 

Tadd, please don't treat me like an idiot, just  underline where in my post I suggested that benefits were the job of the law enforcers ( police) who I wrote investigated

"About time these people realised that the tax payer is paying them then get off their backsides and investigate, as in the case of law enforcers, or double check before willy nilly handing out benefits to anyone who ask"

Seems folk on this site are so damn quick to respond, or complain to mods about an imagined insult, when in truth they haven't bothered to read the post properly. No wonder there is a constant underlay of tension....from everyone...Fact. If you are requested to attended an interview by benefits agency( those in charge of benefits), police station or tax / vat offices you will be encouraged to spill the beans on someone you think is in deeper trouble than you are. Even without proof your prize will be a lighter sentence or fine .

Nowadays police don't have to bother with solving anything because they rely on Joe Public to have filmed all the clues and those who work in benefits agencies are always requesting help in catching the fraudsters when in fact if they had checked, even once, before dishing the cash it wouldn't be necessary.

Floella I was not treating you like an idiot neither have I ever reported you - apologies if that was how it sounded but

About time these people realised that the tax payer is paying them then get off their backsides and investigate, as in the case of law enforcers, or double check before willy nilly handing out benefits to anyone who asks.

I read from your post highlighetd above that you were referring to the police happy to recognise that you also said govt agencies so apologies if I mis understood

I really do doubt your comment on the police relying on joe public as the police work very hard - the police seek help and witnesses. If technology helps and people are willing to provide the evidence and assist the police and govt agencies then great which is a positive addition in the fight against crime and more protection for everyone

If the poice are struggling with rising crime and reductions in funding (maybe due to peopel not paying taxes), redunacies etc,. then why should joe public not help? the alternative simply is not worth considering.

So I really hope people do not sit back and say "not my problem" or "the police or govt agencie should do more" when criminals commit crimes - in a crime there is always a victim and the victim needs help and the criminal needs prosecuting is a good start

I ask you a quesion

If you or someone close (relative,friend etc.) or your property were a victim of a crime and you found out that somebody watched this and refused to call the police or submit the video recorded on their phone how would you feel, would you blame the police or would you prefer (or hope) or eventry and get the witness to come forward?

I agree benefit agencies are not doing enough checks but from what I hear they are getting a bit better but are focusing on easy targets to get ticks in the box and if you do report a benfit fiddler they do act pretty quickly

Tadd, I know you didn't report me to the mods, but believe someone on this site is an agitator. Threads are constantly being squewed and innocent questions and replies are being manipulated and battle lines are being drawn. ( okay, that's a bit OTT) lol.  Consequently everyone, myself included, is on edge and looking for problems that never before existed.

Have seen it happen , too many times, and unfortunately before one realises the perpotrator has sent yet another good forum into oblivion.  

Answers to your question

"If you or someone close (relative,friend etc.) or your property were a victim of a crime and you found out that somebody watched this and refused to call the police or submit the video recorded on their phone how would you feel, would you blame the police or would you prefer (or hope) or eventry and get the witness to come forward?"

Has actually happened and NO-ONE who witnessed wanted to be involved. Following day  no-one could recall seeing anything !!! Fortunately the bad guys got banged up.

Moral..never rely on anyone...unless you are the gang leader and threaten to bury them on concrete .....

Had forgotten all about my past life, until now,  but I on the other hand have reported crimes to police 3 times. Once when I was 12 reported a burglary 

2nd time saw 2 con men in a pub trick the landlord out of £20 and contacted the police who apprehended the guys

3rd time. Witnessed a fight between a man and his ex wife. Was asked, and agreed, to be a witness as the man was violent and incarceration was necessary. Fortunately he pled guilty...whew...

" I agree benefit agencies are not doing enough checks but from what I hear they are getting a bit better but are focusing on easy targets to get ticks in the box and if you do report a benfit fiddler they do act pretty quickly" 

They shouldn't have to rely on the public to spy and report. I worked for CAB for 5 years and those who should be getting the benefits aren't and those who are bullish enough to cause problems at benefits offices or other agencies where they need documents as proof ...do.

 Benefit fraudsters try keep under the radar so more difficult to report on and all a CAB worker can do is not to deal with someone who is suspect. 

Problem is, stand up to bully these days and you become as easy target for a criminal conviction.

How about this then. 

Instead of snitching on folk who you know receive underhand cash payments for Un-declared work, how about snitching on the people who brag about paying the cash out for work with no invoices, then the tax man will follow up who they paid the cash out to, suffice to say the paying person hasn't committed a crime but wait and see what the tradesman says, or does, when they find out who it was that snitched on them. 

floella

I think we are generally in agreement and the fear of reporting is a bit endemic in society now sadly

** EDITED **

If you are thinking of reporting someone in Spain you will have to sign a denuncia. It is important to have your facts right because if the allegations are not proved the person could take a denuncia out against you for false allegations. Strange but true.

what happened to moving to Spain for the laid back lifestyle?

Well this morning was representitive of most, I rose at 6.45 am and had a shower (whoops), watched the news whilst having a slice of toast and a mug of coffee. Took the dogs out for a long walk, called at the mini market on the way back home, had a bit of breakfast and crashed out until it was time to drive to my son and his partner's place to take their dogs out for a similar walk to the one that I took ours. I would have cut the front lawn had it stopped raining for long enough, however I needed to talk to our solicitor about a matter that required his attention. Time for a beer or two, I'm not driving anymore today so no problem, I am looking forward to this evenings cottage pie.

When all this is done and finished I can put my mind to deciding who to report and for what, however I'm finding it difficult, other than reporting my plumber for not charging me VAT. How do the reporters of folk decide who to report? Do they have so much time on their hands that they can investigate their every suspicion of their neighbours activities?, God only knows, I am pretty certain that I will never find out.    

About time these people realised that the tax payer is paying them then get off their backsides and investigate

Have you seen how much Police, DWP and HMRC budgets have been cut by in the last 6 years? 

Unfortunately the taxpayer isn't paying them to get off their backsides anymore. Fraud investigations cost a lot of money in investigations and surveillance. They are therefore more reliant than ever on the public for help. Even more so with "abroad fraud".

or double check before willy nilly handing out benefits to anyone who asks.

I guess you haven't read many of the cases where people have been taken off benefits and then died or committed suicide through the stress of the process they now have to go through to try to get them back?

The statistics released by the government in 2012 showed that 10,600 people in the UK died between January and November 2011 after having their benefits stopped.

These processes not only cost the taxpayer more money, but cause distress to those genuinely in need.

Benefit fraud and tax fraud are not victimless crimes.

When all this is done and finished I can put my mind to deciding who to report and for what, however I'm finding it difficult, other than reporting my plumber for not charging me VAT. How do the reporters of folk decide who to report? Do they have so much time on their hands that they can investigate their every suspicion of their neighbours activities?, God only knows, I am pretty certain that I will never find out.  

 Opps someone didn't read the post correctly now did they, no mention has been made of reporting your plumber for not charging you VAT after all under the VAT limit they don't have to register. And they might be..But you knew that.

Mention was made however of reporting to the Tax Man of folk who make a point of mentioning they pay trades people cash in hand....So you report this person...Then the tax man visits this person (And trust me on that they will) to ask who this plumber is that perhaps was paid in cash so as to defraud, and of course it's always better if you have these words printed out, anyway I do believe you mentioned it's an easy paper trail via the tax man, so no problems then. 

Well baz, you very nearly said that.

…………..  , no mention has been made of reporting your plumber for not charging you VAT after all under the VAT limit they don't have to register. And they might be..But you knew that.

As this eye on Spain.

Does anyone know if like the UK there are any legal exemptions from charging IVA. I have never heard of any.

No Johnzx, no IVA threshold in Spain.

You have to invoice out (turnover) in excess of £81,000 in the UK to be made to register.

The no vat threshold in Spain coupled with the minimum social security payment of around 260€ per month, payable if you earn anything or not is in my opinion why many expats work under the radar.