Are property prices really on the up in Spain?

The asking price for properties is certainly going up but I'm not sure if the selling price actually is. People who watch a Place in the Sun or whatever are well versed in offering extremely low prices so I reckon higher values are being asked knowing they are going to get much lower offers.

Unlike midasgold, we've had a lot of movement on properties around us. Virtually a completely new area of flats were sold off-plan well before completion with just 2 or 3 of the 30 apartments unsold. Resale properties are also moving but selling prices don't seem to be matching the asking price.

I know one which was up for 175k (original price 210k) but went for 135k. One of the worst ones was very nice, semi bought for over 300k back in 2007 and put up for 232, reduced to 175 and was sold for (wait for it) 132,000 euro. That's not far off a third of the original price. Sold by a Russian who hasn't actually lost that much in rubles considering the crash that currency has taken but it does have a knock on effect for other owners.

Prices at the agents are definitely higher than a year ago with not so many saying 3rd or 4th reduction but I doubt if they get anything near the asking price.

Not sure about rightmove showing prices in the area but Kyero certainly does, broken down by quarter over the last 10 years. This is for our area. It also give a comparison with Spain in general.

Average house prices - Ciudad Quesada

Spanish property sale prices are available and published by websites such as fotocasa.es and tradingeconomics.com

The trends are fairly obvious.

Sale prices for individual properties are recorded but I haven't seen them published on the internet. You can however view them by community, province, town and area.

Funnily enough I have exact data (for July-August differences only).. I was registered with an estate agent earlier this year in Javea/Denia area - not inland, and they had my email address.

3 weeks ago, I received an email from them (clearly to the wrong person) saying.. 'can you ammend Rightmove and Zoopla with the following'.

It showed 19 houses were to removed from the index in September(ie sold or gave up), 19 new properties added, and 3 price reductions.

So the property churn rate is even, One of the price reductions I couldn't find the property ref, but the other two were 3%, 5% reductions.

So don't believe the hype..  info from the horses mouth.  Not one price increase for that agent in the Javea/Denia area. The agents will always say it has never been a better time to buy.

Although from my buying experience documented in other threads (trying to put in offers 10-20% below asking price), most of the sellers I met were either spanish, and just sit on a price, and wait for years, or they are foreigners who don't have enough equity in the property to drop the price any further.. ie it is their bank(mortgage) who decide whether to accept an offer. ie. won't sell or can't sell.

You have to look long and hard, and put lots of offers in to find people not in the above camps.. ie. have lots of equity, and will accept a v. low asking price for circumstantial reasons.. but most of those will have already sold in the last few years.

So prices must be near-sh the bottom I reckon, which is why I bought (10% more to go?).  But not another 20,30,40%, unless something cataclysmic happens in europe.. revolution, massive interest rate rices, financial market collapse etc.

My best guess, for what it's worth.

Jon, I've not seen your other posts about your buying experience, but I think you've hit the nail on the head and other potential buyers should take note - as you say, from the horse's mouth. Until buyers accept that you can't offer 50% of the asking price, the market won't start to move again. Most sellers, and even the banks won't accept silly offers now, they don't need to. Unrealistic expectations, plus lack of credit etc. as someone pointed out, means there's very little genuine demand, and the supposed over supply is a bit of a myth. Good quality, well located property is not so easy to find at rock bottom prices. A recent SPI article (not sure if the same one Ads referred to) explains that most of the "glut" of Spanish property is unsaleable at any price (i.e. they literally can't give it away - it needs to be demolished in order to correct the misleading figures)

Not sure why so much interest in Rightmove and the info they provide (or not) on Spanish property. Rightmove is a UK property portal, Rightmove Overseas just a nice little side line for them (covering worldwide property). If you're serious about looking for property in Spain, stick to Spanish portals such as Idealista, Kyero and even sites like milanuncios. 

Re: previous sale prices - Quote Johnzx: Your solicitor, if any good will tell you what the seller paid for the house.Or you could just look at the copy of the Escritura which the person you are buying from must produce.  I believe it will also be shown on the Nota Simple. Of course if it was some time ago that the person you are buying from bought, the declared figure may be very different from what was actually paid."

Not sure how your solicitor would be able to tell you anything other than is registered on the escritura? I don't recall (although I could be wrong) the previous sale price being included in the nota simple, so the actual compra-venta esctritura would have to be obtained to see this figure. Maybe a solicitor can get hold of the figure via the registry? And yes, anything that last changed hands prior to the crash, you're very unlikely to be able to find out what it really sold for, because virtually every property transaction included an element of "B" money.

Regarding demolition of property owned by the Banks, I wonder how many of these properties cannot be demolished so long as they still have outstanding contractual obligations , i.e were offplan properties (against which the Banks have retained offplan deposits)  where developers failed to meet legal deadlines/LFO provision and subsequently became insolvent and maybe have outstanding claimants endeavouring to regain their deposited monies according to Ley 57/68 law? Surely the Banks wouldn't be given "permission" to demolish under this circumstance, would they, and would have to remain compliant with existing law? (A question for lawyers). There must be thousands of offplan purchasers  whose deposited monies still sit in Bank accounts and who have been compromised under these circumstances. :(

Roberto:  Not sure how your solicitor would be able to tell you anything other than is registered on the Escritura ? I don't recall (although I could be wrong) the previous sale price being included in the nota simple, so the actual compra-venta esctritura would have to be obtained to see this figure.

Hi Roberto, I have an Escritura de Compraventa de Vivienda (that is the Copia Simple)  in front of me.  It shows the (declared) price paid for the property. 

I checked the Nota Simple which is attached, thanks for pointing out that it does not show the price declared, only debts recorded.  The one I am looking at shows there was  a mortgage in the name of the previous owner..

Well I''ve managed to well and truly put the cat amogst the pigeons by suggesting that Rightmove adopt the same policy in respect of Spanish property adds as they do with UK adds. Why it would only help if a Spanish site published previous sale prices is beyond me, if it helps I categorically change my mind and state that knowing a properties previous sales prices would be no help at all to a prospective buyer.

It's not a case of it wouldn't help - of course it would, and it would be nice if Rightmove could include it, but creating a spin-off website from your core business, where agents from around the world & private sellers (around 80 different countries by my count) can upload their properties is one thing. Researching or collecting up to date information on all those property markets is another. That takes time. Maybe it's something they'll look to doing when and if that side of their business becomes a more significant part of the whole. I just think it's a bit much to expect. And I maintain that if you're serious about searching for property in Spain, Rightmove Overseas is not the place to start - you're better off looking at sites dedicated to Spain. 

Johnzx,

Have the details associated with the previous owners' mortgage been updated to reflect paying off this previous mortgage debt at point of resale? Is this an obligatory requirement (Notarial responsibility to ensure records are updated at point of sale?) within the conveyancing process, or can records remain out of date and therefore cannot be relied upon in terms of identifying outstanding debts against any property?

I seem to recall some time ago a case where the developer upon receipt of purchaser's payment (the purchaser did not require a mortgage) that the developer failed to pay these monies into the developer's Bank account to strike off the developer debt with that Bank, and he subsequently went on to acquire another mortgage on that same property, went bankrupt and the unwitting new owner was being asked by the Bank to meet the developer debt, when in reality he had already paid in full for the property!! And all because there appeared to be no obligatory administrative process in place to record/update the developer's mortgage details (debt) at point of sale and thereby prohibit any subsequent illegal re-mortgage. 

Also in the case of developer/ Bank resales where contracts have subsequently been cancelled due to developer breach of contract, but deposited monies are still due for refund according to Ley 57/68 law (these cases being back in the days when claimants went against the developer and not a joint/several case against the developer and Bank), I have to query where is the "outstanding debt" associated with deposited monies placed against that property and still due for refund according to Ley 57/68, documented?

Has the recording system in relation to outstanding debts now been amended to ensure these problems are no longer perpetuated and are prevented via a rigorous and more fullproof system, I wonder?

The prices are also affected by the lack of credit available from the banks.   If somebody wants a house loan they are strongarmed into considering one of the bank´s repossessed properties which comes with a mortgage granted (subject to status).  If not they will not offer a loan.   Recently a newspaper also stated that almost 60 per cent of sales over the last year have been "toca teja"   which is a colloquial expression for cash.  One aspect of this figure is that interest rates are so low that some people have been buying some bargains to rent out to make money on their capital.  Some agenices have set themselves up to offer this.   Then there is the factor of other nationalities buying holiday homes, so this only affects certain areas of the country.    So if all these factors were taken out of the balance, how many homes have been sold to ordinary people on the street??!  Without the banks turning on the credit tap for home loans there is not going to be the widespread selling and buying of homes needed to significantly push the prices up again.

Roberto, I disagree as Rightmove are just telling you what is available from all agents, they do it impartially and very comprehensively, I can't see a problem with that.

Roberto, I disagree as Rightmove are just telling you what is available from all agents, they do it impartially and very comprehensively, I can't see a problem with that.

True, and until ordinary people can buy (and sell) their homes in a "normal" market place, those same people will be unable to move to where employment opportunities arise, thus hindering any reduction in unemployment and any semblance of an economic recovery. Surely this is pretty fundamental. Why isn't the Spanish government doing anything to stimulate the market - such as reducing or even waiving transfer tax for a period? After all, 8% of nothing is nothing so it's not like they're going to lose much.

Ads.  Is this an obligatory requirement (Notarial responsibility to ensure records are updated at point of sale?) within the conveyance process,

The notary would not have any way of knowing if the records at property register were up to date when he got his Nota.  The Reg Office would have a record of matters which had been notified to them.   The Notary gets a Nota, within 24 hours before a contract is to be signed, to ensure the new contract can, according to the law, be made.

Example:   A few years ago I was at a  notary’s office to sign a contract for a loan I was advancing on a property. The Notary saw from the Nota Simple that a previous loan had not been cleared. The amounts involved would have caused conflict if I made the loan. The Notary refused to make the contract. I returned a few days later when the previous loan had been cleared by Property Reg. reflected in the new Nota,  and made the new contract.

Roberto - Logic - Dream on with that solution.

Ads. Notaries are liable of informing the buyer of existing charges on the property by verifying the latest records at the Land Registry

Thank you Maria, is there a legal obligation to update the land registry as they can only act upon information received? And if so, who is legally responsible to update the land registry?

As I understand it (and may be different in each region) the land registry records are updated every 5 years and the local property is updated by town halls every 10 years (or should be, ours wasn't done for over 15 years).

You can access details of registration, "encumbrances" and so on at the Land Registry website by registering a request.

This link is in English and explains it:

Registradores de Espana

Thanks Mariedav.

If, as implied, in the link you identified, that registration is VOLUNTARY and not obligatory, how can anyone be sure that the information relating to owner details/mortgages/charges and encumbrances associated with any given property are up to date in the land registry?

Perhaps I have misunderstood?