Unpaid Community Fees (again)

Sorry to resurrect this old chestnut, but I have been told if a property is still owned by the original owner, debts going back further than the usual 3 years can be collected, is there any truth in this or am I being led astray?

Ant

Debts remain with a property.

If not sold or repossessed, the original owner is liable for all historic debts and can and should be sued each year after approval at an AGM.

If bank have repossessed a property from a debtor, they are liable for current year a 3 previous years fees.

Previous owner is still liable to fees prior to this, but little chance you will recover if no action has been commenced.

Thanks Hugh, what seems to have been happening here is the banks on repossessing pay nothing but on the sale of the property have paid up the full amount outstanding, perhaps we have just been lucky so far.

Hi. Seems you may have more info than I could find.

The community where I used to live had quite a lot of debtors and the preseident and administrators seemed reluctant to go all the way and seek the sale of long term debtor properties. Where we are now there a few debtors but time is building up. The president of the old community often stated that there was a time limit after which the debt could not be collected.

Is this the case?

Nooooo Tteedd I don't believe that to be the case.

Anydebtremains with the Community and a decent Administratorshoukd ensure that at each AGM debtors are published to all owners.

the debt should be agreed and approved by all and then you should vote on taking legal action, which you can do after each years debt.

As is the case with most debts, the sooner you chase it,the more chance of recovery.

If owners are non Spanish, use a UK debt collection agency such as  Brooke BatesPartnership who can chase the debt against UK assets.

TheSpanish system will take longer due to busy and slow courts and number of processes involved and actually putting a charge against the property takes time and money.

Do not let the debts mount up.

Thanks Hugh

Yes we went through all of that. We had some success with recovering debts though UK agencies. We also though had properties where the owner had died and we could not establish the inheritor and properties where the owners had been allowed to pay at a rate that would never have paid the debt. As I say, even though we voted to take all action possible, for some reason the President/admistrators never took the legal step against the property.

The new community is certainly better run although I suppose there are few without debt.

Good job it is well run. The AGM is at a time I would prever to be in the UK.

A friend of ours is a chairman of a small community of 30 Villa's in a gated complex ......she sends written warnings to none payer's via the solicitor to pay up within 4 weeks or a denouncing of the property will take place ,the legal denouncing puts a charge plus interest on the property for the outstanding amount this prevents them from selling the property without paying the outstanding bills there is no time limits on how far back you go ........they get charged from day one of ownership.the 4 year  rule use to apply to the IBI that no longer applies , the government will put a denouncing on any property that ows money for IBI preventing the property being sold until the Dept is settled .

Good thing they are proactive chasing the debt.

I still believe though that although you can threaten, but you cannot take legal action until approved by owners at an AGM or EGM.

We have a Spanish resident and he just does not pay, we have tried negotiating and we come up with a plan then he doesn't pay, and he just does not care about legal letters or court threats, anyone know what to do, we have a debt on the property, but that does not help now to get the near 3000€ owed?

Continue with the Monitorio Process, it may take some time depending in the court. Then carry out the final part of the process, Execution, to actually force payment.

The Spanish do have a different attitude to debt than most and as much as you read about how easy it is to claim unpaid debt, I agree it is NOT.

Continue with the Monitorio Process, it may take some time depending in the court. Then carry out the final part of the process, Execution, to actually force payment.

The Spanish do have a different attitude to debt than most and as much as you read about how easy it is to claim unpaid debt, I agree it is NOT.

As this subject continues to evolve.

I was talking to a neighbour recently who bought her apartment from the bank she works for, La Caixa, at a knock down price as it was a repossession.

When she completed La Caixa offered NO debt certificate and did not pay Community fee debts for at least a month after.

The neighbour informed it that it is La Caixa policy NOT to pay any Community fee debts on repossessions UNTIL they sell the apartment on.

Surely a blatant abuse of the laws but can anything be done to force payment from La Caixa when they repossess?

Doesn't this form part of the due diligence of the conveyancing lawyer to ensure that all outstanding debts have been repaid at point of purchase?

Nevertheless, It is a disgraceful ploy by Banks to renege on their ongoing financial responsibilities in this manner and in so doing place stress on law abiding Communities in the lengthy interim periods following repossession.

This should be stamped out by effective Bank regulation, enforcement and compliance in Spain but in the interim the loud and repetitive message should go out as BUYER BEWARE IN SPAIN.

Sadly, often the buyers are persuded to use the banks lawyer or do not check out all details.

Once sold though this bank will normally pay it is the time between repossession from original owner and sale by bank that they are reluctant to pay the fees, but as I say, eventually they do generally pay up.

So the message goes out to ALL propective purchasers to use an INDEPENDENT LAWYER and always confer with lawyer that debts must be repaid (unless negotiated differently) at point of sale.

But the warning goes further than this, in so much as ANY purchaser of properties within communities remains at risk of Banks failing to pay their due fees once Banks take repossession of properties within any community, which in effect compromisies ALL existing owners in the interim periods (as there could be major shortfalls to meet ongoing maintenance etc).

But also some Banks as owners of repossessed properties could exacerbate the vulnerabilities further by failing to address problems associated with squatters ....see https://www.eyeonspain.com/forums/posts-long-22819.aspx 

All owners and propective purchasers within communities therefore need to remain vigilant and fully aware of these ongoing risks, and need to be far more proactive to make the Banks accountable for their ongoing malpractice. Why not write to your Spanish MEP,  plus I came across this website which might prove of assistance (unsure whether it's relevant?) https://www.uci.com/QuejasyReclamaciones.asp?idioma=I

So we are not the only community where the bank has refused to pay the service charge debt until the property is sold on!

I found the staff in the town hall quite threatening too, they tried to get me to pay the debt of a previous owner.

The Town hall has nothing to do with community fees, don´t understand that ¿. And if previous owner had outstanding bills, Suma, electic,water, car loans, mortage ets. the law innSpain says You take onthose debts i´m afraid. 

Not the community fees, the council tax or whatever it is called, I paid what was due and took a while for the previous bills to be paid by the previous owner, but the people in the town hall had a dreadful attitude, just got the impression they would try and con anyone into paying someone else's debt.

Antonio

That is because the Town Hall and tax authorities and can almost immediately attach an individuals debt to his, her property.

This debt remains with the property and must be cleared and paid either by the buyer reducing the amount paid to seller or seller settling the debt and supplying a debt certificate to any new buyer.

Depressingly, conveyancing lawyers are either nit to be trusted or are corrupt, sorry but it's fact.

Banking and judiciary are almost as bad as the politicians.

Buyers sadly are not beware until the Community or the Town Hall come  knocking for the debt.