Operation Yellow Hammer

I would argue that there has been too little focus on the damage austerity caused to the British people. The EU became a convenient scapgoat for politicians on the make. The public were fed up with the hardships and cuts to public services caused prior to the referendum and wanted to lash out. The Syrian refugee crisis was another factor. Cameron stupidly gave them that chance.

The anti EU bandwaggon con began for Farage, Gove and Johnson and joe public bought it. This resulting  s**t storm and damage to the UK's international standing will last a generation. It hardly matters now if they leave or not the UK's public's view of the European project is tainted and the Europeans view of British politics is broken. It's all way too late to recover the nations credibility.

Austerity was a real nuisance to the general public, yes, but it had to happen due to the money problems we got from past leaders, someone had to sort something out, we just couldn't go on like we were doing, then the B word come along and put another spanner in the works.

The public didn't want to lash out as you put it, but in general were fed up with how the EU were dictating and seemed to be controlling us, which could have been a pack of lies from our government considering whats been going on of late.

50% of the public care nothing about the problems with Syria, the other 50% weren't even bothered about it, not one person that I know of has ever mentioned Syria in the context of, or with leaving the EU, and that includes many military personal that I know.

The great British public were fed up with the EU, period, the 3 you mention only stirred it up,  the public were fed up years before the 3 even happened.

The publics view of the EU was tainted years before the B word, you know that but wont admit it,  you should have known it if you as you say you have business interests in England,  because business's have been complaining about the EU poking its nose in for many a year.

It wont matter to you one tiny bit because you don't live in England. To use your words from one post, 'I don't care if I never put a foot in England ever again' (Or words similar to that)  and therefore know nothing of whats been happening  in England for many past years.

P.s. With regard to the educative debate on carrots, ha! perhaps worth reflecting on the following change in practices since the 1990s....

British carrots are available in the shops for around 11 months of the year, from early to mid June when the new British season starts right through to May. But aside from supporting British farmers and the economy, buying seasonal British produce just makes good sense if you want fresh, great tasting, reasonably priced food.

In the autumn, British carrot farmers start putting their crop “to bed” for the winter months by covering them with a thick layer of straw to protect them from the frost. This eco-friendly method of storage, takes place across large swathes of land in Nottinghamshire, Yorkshire, Lincolnshire, Norfolk, Suffolk and Scotland. The earth becomes nature’s larder, keeping the crop fresh and ready for harvest throughout the winter, allowing farmers to provide the UK with an almost year round supply of carrots. Before farmers adopted this practice in the 1990s, carrots were predominantly a summer vegetable.

No doubt good news for those UK farmers wishing to expand their supplies to the UK market. :)

But after Brexit there will be no one to pick the carrots, unless we use prison inmates, but that would never do, the anorak human rights brigade would go mad.

Basic duty on carrots is 30%.

Why would we put extra duty on our own production of carrots to be used within our own domestic market? We wouldn’t need to import....

This was with regard to not having carrots available wasn’t it?

As for not having people to pick the carrots....what nonsense. It’s a mutual arrangement where those we need would be welcomed and likewise those who seek work would earn an income probably in excess of their own earning capacity back at home. Just as exists at present.

But their was only one bag of carrots in the first place....And two people were fighting over these, and the old lady won.....By a carrot.

Ha! Ha!

There are 65 million people in the UK. Not all eat vegetables but probably half do. Do you believe the UK can be self-sufficient in vegetables? 30 plus millions consume a lot of vegs. It's nonsense the Uk is dependent on the EU or imported veg from elsewhere with WTO tariffs applied. When a carrot costs a quid the penny will drop.

Micky your knowledge is amazing. 32.5 million of the UK population eat carrots, do you know their names?

No it was an educated guess and please note I said vegetables not only carrots. The NHS issued a survey recently saying only one in four adults eat the recommended five per day. Fruit and veg are the major EU import, especially from SE Spain. Tariffs will see the price rocket after a no-deal exit and delays at the ports will exasperate the situation. So the poorest in society will simply stop eating them with a negative impact on their health.

The real point I was making is Britain could not satisfy public demand from growing its own. Even digging up Hyde Park as they did in WW11 and planting spuds won't cut it

Micky if as you say only one in four adults eat the recommended amount of fruit and veg now what difference will it make when as you also say the poorest in society will stop eating them if no-deal, because it sounds like they are not being eaten as it is anyway.

The poorest in society, who are these people? Are they the ones who are on benefits of close to £500/600 per week, who have been given to them a brand new SUV vehicle, or perhaps the ones that pay out in the region of £60 per month for a mobile phone contract, it could even be them who are leasing new BMW's and the such for £250 a month, might be the ones who think nothing of having 3 overseas holidays a year while paying £75 a month for SKY when they cram into Curry's to buy the latest widescreen TV for the kitchen, or for the new extension on the house the list goes on.

I know your next post coming up....Now we are a wealthy country....After no-deal and leaving the slums of the world will be richer then England.

Hello baz

Your comments seem very harsh to the unfortunate people having to live on DHSS taxpayer benefits. Many of these people are victims and have not been given a fair opportunity to contribute to society; in fact many have never contributed since birth just like their victimised parents and grandparents. It is not their fault that the basic cost of living is so high (£60 mobile, £250 a month for a BMW, £75 Sky, New TV £1,000, £4 a pint lager, £10 a packet of fags, £2 a tin dog food). These people need everyone’s support and they are certainly not getting it from Ryanair  & BA strikes disrupting their much needed frequent luxury holidays.

We should all show respect and consideration to these people by not wakening them by slamming the car door at 7am on a bitter winter’s morning on our way to work.

There are so many issues being covered here but if we return to the issue of yellow hammer it has to be stressed the difference between recognising the worst case scenario ( which implies that the EU do not agree to a deal that protects UK citizens interests) and striving for a mutually acceptable deal. To suggest that the UK Government are not striving for a deal is wrong. They are. But to tie their hands behind their backs in that process and expect them not to prepare for a no deal scenario would be a complete dereliction of duty. Unfortunately those who have little intent to respect a democratic vote to leave are using this worst case scenario to suggest that this is the Government’s  sole intent, which is a mistruth and only further alienates and divides and leads to a distrust of motives.

Until the EU are prepared and willing to respect the UK in its sincere attempt to strike a mutually acceptable deal, with emphasis on mutual, then the impass will only serve to create further uncertainties which as has already been identified will lead to more negative economic impacts for citizens both sides of the channel. 

No one does any favours to this impasse by exaggerating or using divisive political mantra. The focus should be on understanding the complexities and seeking out realistic solutions to those complexities. My focus on the economic issues only serves to demonstrate the lessons that need to be learned from erroneous economic forecasting that has led to extensions of austerity that have resulted in highly compromising scenarios, again for both sides of the channel.

As citizens we should all be calling for a fair mutually acceptable deal without constantly undermining those who seek to achieve this. UK citizens are sick to death of those who take pleasure from this constant intent to undermine, to play political games with our lives, those who determinedly refuse to retain open minds when seeking out solutions, those who purposefully refuse to recognise failures or the need for reforms that have the potential to benefit all in the longer term.

Hi Kavanagh. You make good points about my very harsh post, I will digest them and rethink my strategy on the poor hard up members of our society.....There you go I have had a thought on the scroungers of our country, nothings changed.

Ads, You keep on about what to do, and change the system by informing the correct parties concerned, hasn't the fact that this government has done nothing about respecting the leave vote just proves, 'Whats the point' Have you tried to get anywhere with the simplest of problems these days. It has just taken me close to 12 months to get my BT line and broadband sorted out, I can't tell you how many times the engineers came, the box on the wall has been changed 5 times now, probably the same amount of new routers, couldn't have speedy fibre to far from exchange, then when BT told me I could have speedy fibre....The new green fibre box was full, another 6 weeks wait, a list of apology calls from BT, two engineers, another box on the wall.

The EU is the same because to them....... 'Why fix it if it ain't broke'

Baz

Yes of course I recognise the frustrations and realities, but at the end of the day, if it (in  both scenarios you refer to) doesn’t meet expectations and causes continual ongoing problems, you have the choice to walk away.

 Only when the aspects that lead to frustration are openly accepted with genuine intent to resolve the frustrations is it worth sticking with the status quo. The moment that the underlying frustrations are purposefully ignored is the moment to recognise you’re hitting your head against a brick wall.....and need to walk away.

As things currently stand the EU have constantly refused to recognise what led to the frustrations in the UK, preferring to imply they were solely as a consequence of domestic issues and not as a result of an unfair and unlevel playing field from the outset when it came to the lifting of restrictions re freedom of movement together with an inability to effectively control and subsequently manage the impacts at a time of financial crisis. 

So having taken the decision to walk away, the UK Govt, having tried to do this in an orderly fashion, has been met with yet further intransigence and reluctance to recognise the need for a mutually acceptable deal by tying the UKs hands and trying to force through a deal that in its legal wording compromises the sensitive peace process in Ireland.

Only when the EU demonstrates willingness to seek out mutually acceptable solutions in this regard ( and this is not a unilateral requirement to find solutions as they keep implying....as both sides have to be willing to offer and seek out workable solutions ) is it worth continuing on with this process.

But at the end of the day, if this is not done within the confines of yet a third dated attempt to do so, then the UK will have little option but to walk away. To then tie the hands and not allow them to walk away would only demonstrate that this is no longer a democratic process, but a dictatorial process which has the potential to cause all manner of civil disruption ( God forbid).

Ads, whichever way you look at it the UK are the leavers (traitors) and therefore the EU arrogant hierarchy don’t give jack about UK citizens. They will do everything within their power to punish and humiliate the UK and it’s government as an example to other EU members. They live in ivory towers and are untouchable by the realities of day to day life, they don’t care if carrots cost €1,000 a bag.

You need to learn the world is run by ‘’what’s in it for me’s’’, pretending they care for any citizen is just a ploy to power and the meal ticket.

Interesting but hardly surprising to read some of the political views of posters on the welfare state. Straight from The Daily Mail playbook.

ads: Freedom of movement did not cause the leave vote. Austerity did and depressed wages forced on business by the credit crunch. Peoples perceptions were probably to blame much like some perceptions of the life of the poorest members of UK society written here.

The EU is displaying solidarity with Ireland a full member. I would expect nothing less. If you want a target for your venum against the EU why not direct it to the actual reason and cause an agreement has not been reached. It's Ireland and the DUP that will not give an inch not EU intransigence. Everything else is agreed. How is that intransigence or bullying? It's nonsense.

Father on benefits reveals he has no intention of getting a full-time job - because it's 'not in his psyche' (and says his children eat what they like, go to bed when they want and brushing teeth is optional)

Straight from the Daily Mail playbook Micky.....Just one of thousands. 

Don’t worry Baz if the UK leave with no deal and as Windy predicts carrots rise to £1,000 a bag the government driven by the ‘’do gooder’s’’ will ensure the unfortunate benefit claimers receive additional funds to compensate them. Those suffering from long term sticky mattress disease will receive an additional bonus. OAP who have worked all their life and paid tax will receive JACK, but that’s just tough, we have the priorities right.

Mickeyfinn,

“The Irish backstop is a protocol in the (unratified) Brexit withdrawal agreement, that would keep the United Kingdom (in general) in the European Union Customs Union and Northern Ireland (in particular) in some aspects of the European Single Market, until a solution is found to prevent a hard border.”

How many times does it have to be stated that keeping the UK in a customs union, with NI in some aspects of the single market is not Brexit !!! You talk of solidarity with Southern Ireland.....have you ever considered that the UK are equally demonstrating support for their own N Ireland citizens? It is hypocritical to suggest that this is an acceptable solution when the preconditions laid down by the EU are totally unacceptable.

If a MUTUALLY acceptable  solution is not found to prevent a hard border, with no such preconditions as identified above, then there can be no other conclusion that the UK will have been purposefully denied a deal due to the EUs refusal to stop placing unacceptable preconditions on the UK. 

It’s ironic and completely insensitive to the hard fought for peace process that you wish that we stop supporting our own citizens in Northern Ireland by turning our backs on them! 

P.s The EU’s unequal application of lifting of restrictions under freedom of movement where thousands of citizens swiftly entered the UK at a time when austerity measures were being implemented due to the financial crisis, without UK ability to control these movements and without any willingness from the EU Commission to recognise the major impacts, undoubtably  played a large part in the frustrations and disillusionment with the EU establishment. To deny this is to turn your back on uncomfortable realities relating to lack of control and understanding, and sadly only perpetuates disillusionment and distrust.

 
This message was last edited by ads on 18/09/2019.