Operation Yellow Hammer

Windy: I am afraid you have a misunderstanding of the role of the EU Commission. All member states are sovereign and rule their own affairs. The only form of control is these countries are required to govern within treaty arrangements which they have all signed up to.

The EU can only act in those areas where its member countries have authorised it to do so, via these EU treaties. The treaties specify who can pass laws in what areas: the EU, national governments or both.

The EU invests around €5 billion annually in regional aid in the country. You can find out what your own region of the UK has benefited by entering your postcode in this site. www.myeu.uk

Britains EU membership has raised living standards across the country and helped build peace, stability and a more prosperous single market that benefits all countries.

You can read what the EU has done for Britain from this none partisan web site:

https://fullfact.org/europe/reciprocal-benefits/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwt5zsBRD8ARIsAJfI4BhVOY6imT-ayQoQysTmthrLJkghEWWjYj703GQMCtIQAX13nDm29hoaAnnLEALw_wcB

Truth is subjective  it depends on someones personal perspectives. In the absence of evidence one mans truth is anothers lie. The fact is until 2016 British people and their parliament were content to remain members of the EU.  You can speculate on the causes of the leave vote but it doesnt make the decision anymore logical or right for the country.

Micky if you noticed in my post I did ask you where you got your information from that you post on here.

Most posters, and the general public, either get theirs from the media, TV news and such like, so again where does your information come from? Simple question.

How long is a piece of string? Opinions and beliefs are formed through a diverse series of lifetime experiences and learning. I realised long ago the media especially social media and newspapers are propaganda organs for one cause or another. If your opinions are formed solely by that process you are likely to have been misled.

Many opinions are just made up fantasies that the originator totally believes in. It could be argued that these fantasies are a sign of mental illness. You usually find these people are obsessed in trying to continually persuade others that their fantasies are real in order to convince themselves.

Many of these people become outcasts because they are such a nuisance and an annoyance, people will cross the street to avoid them. However the internet and social media has become their saviour where they can disrupt others and continually post their garbage.

Of course arguing that in your opinion, other people's opinion my be fantasies related to their mental health, can be equally applied to your opinions Kavanagh.

Given that your screen name and avatar are a fictional TV character (same with Angeleyes) I do take that as the starting point in identifying fantacists.

There is such a thing in a democracy as campaigning for what you believe in. It's the basis of political life. Nothing was ever changed or improved without campaigning pressure. Even Brexit itself.

Usually I only respond to anothers post on here or to clear up any ambiguities. If that's a problem for the "tv personalities" then tough.

Someone once said that all you can do is honestly express the things you believe in and leave others to interpret their value.

Percy, I am not arguing with anyone. You should not mock people with mental health issues, these people need help and assistance not criticism.  

An evil gang of Polish plumbers, Romanian fruit pickers and Hungarian cleaners decide to bring down the UK economy by stealing all the jobs and putting themselves on zero hours contracts....but their cunning plans are soon foiled by a plucky gang of public school educated government ministers, hedge fund capitalists and  billionaire media barons, none of whom pay taxes in the UK

Please not more exaggerated generalisations that are as bad as the politicians who do likewise and hide behind political mantra instead of focusing on real issues that have impacted people’s  everyday lives. Regions in the UK have been affected differently by a whole variety of decisions, some by domestic decision making and some by EU decision making.  

Problems have arisen and spilled over to become major frustrations however where control to improve or correct decisions that have had such negative impacts on UK citizens have been taken out of the hands of the normal UK democratic process.

Such aspects as a sudden increase in population growth at a time of financial crisis that sadly required austerity measures, without any controls to prevent and stem the continuing population growth. When this occurred frustrations were bound to build up and yes they did lead to something that had never been witnessed before, I.e. zero hours contracts, which suited some who enjoyed the benefits of flexibility, but equally badly affected others who witnessed their income levels negatively affected and their working conditions undermined.

And yes of course there are issues that relate to unfair tax contributions from large corporations that abuse the system which require international resolutions if we are honest. But in this instance it’s quite ironic that Southern Ireland has benefitted from such corporations, acting as a base for these organisations to continue with their approach. So much hypocrisy and turning of blind eyes is happening when it comes to debating the fairness or unfairness re accountability.

But the point being that generalisations or sticking to hardline political mantra or beliefs, with an unwillingness to retain open minds to seek out effective reforms where required ( and this includes perhaps treaty change), to be sufficiently flexible to respond and review policy when major problems occur, does little favour to finding good rational solutions that ultimately benefits Jo Public.

IMHO we are all at a point now where controls required to find good rational solutions for the UKs specific circumstances have undoubtably been taken away by being a member of the EU, and so long as there remains an intransigence to reform the EU and recognise such, we need to regain control and correct the problems through our own democratic processes.  Whether that can be achieved by a achieving a good mutual deal or not depends upon the EU’s approach going forward, but if it means coping with a no deal scenario, then so be it and we will have to be as supportive as possible  of those who will be most affected. But at least this would be resolved from within the UK....

ads: Whether that can be achieved by achieving a good mutual deal or not depends upon the EU’s approach going forward, but if it means coping with a no-deal scenario, then so be it and we will have to be as supportive as possible of those who will be most affected. But at least this would be resolved from within the UK.

Really! I thought it was the UK that wants to leave the EU with a trade deal. Did I get that wrong? When someone wants to leave an insititution is it normal for the said institution to have to make the leaving process more comfortable at their own expense and security?

No. It is for the UK to make a deal that is acceptable not the other way round. The solution is on the table for NI to remain in the customs union with Ireland. It is the only solution that will work. Juncker has said a hard border will be created in the event of no deal. It was obvious that was the consequence of no deal. 

Going back to the seventies is inevitable if no deal is forced upon the British. Conflict unemployment and shortages will result, that you can predict. Being supportive to those affected will be an enormous challenge. Life in Britain will never be the same.

What you appear to not accept Mickeyfinn are the impacts that have resulted from EU decision making, and continued decision making with regard to finding a mutually acceptable deal, which at present ties the UK s hands behind their backs, leaving little option other than to walk away. 

Time for a good mutually acceptable deal, swift EU reform ( highly unlikely) or regain control from within and manage accordingly going forward.

NO. It was the UK parliament that would not accept the deal done between the EU and UK. Get your facts right, please.

No it was disillusionment in EU decision making over many years that led to the UK decision to leave plus “Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements".

Invocation

Thus, once a member state has notified the European Council of its intention to leave, a period begins during which a withdrawal agreement is negotiated, setting out the arrangements for the withdrawal and outlining the country's future relationship with the Union. Commencing the process is up to the member state that intends to leave.

The article allows for a negotiated withdrawal, due to the complexities of leaving the EU. However, it does include in it a strong implication of a unilateral right to withdraw. This is through the fact that a state would decide to withdraw "in accordance with its own constitutional requirements" and that the end of the treaties' application in a member state that intends to withdraw is not dependent on any agreement being reached (it would occur after two years regardless).^[9]

Ads

‘’No it was disillusionment in EU decision making over many years that led to the UK decision to leave’’

How do you know that? Did you have to give a reason on the ballot paper?

It became apparent from the many and varied live question time programs from all over the UK ( and still ongoing), live interviews around the country, etc. live debates identifying firsthand experiences, in other words not fabricated by media but live instances of people discussing their concerns over a lengthy period of time and subsequently reflected in their voting patterns.

you think Question Time isn't media manipulation ?...The audience are invited on. Indeed one prominant right wing nutter in Scotland was invited on 4 times as part of the audience.

You could be correct ads. I doubt any live TV audience will stand up and say ‘’immigration’’ for fear of being called a racist or thrown out of the studio.

• The BBC has become an organ for right-wing politics during the reign of Tony Hall. It's not impartial and has a bias towards ruling class politics. If you have any doubt read recent memoirs from recently long overdue retired Today presenter John Humphrys in The Mail and the blatant Twitter utterings of Laura Kunesberg.

Some on the other hand consider the BBC have been biased towards remain! We could all continue in this vein ad infinitum. 

We all make our own judgements according to many factors, but first hand experiences according to all manner of circumstances across the country are hard to dismiss.

It is inevitable that those who do not agree with the democratic vote would do all in their power to try and undermine anyone who has reached their own conclusions that are contrary to their own beliefs. 

Round and round we go, each dismissing the other, but the people will ultimately make their own decisions known in an election which will demonstrate if they are content with their political representatives or not.

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