Operation Yellow Hammer

You know perfectly well that the withdrawal agreement was acceptable to a large number of moderate MP's. Even Johnson voted for it eventually. The hard-right faction of the Tory party along with their DUP chums rejected it because of the belief NI should always remain part of the UK without distinction. 

You should ask yourself how else the EU can ensure their external borders are respected post-Brexit if no trade deal is forthcoming. Without the backstop, it would be open season on the EU's integrity and single market credibility.

I personally support Irish unification as a long term goal for peace in Ireland. The back-stop is a perfectly acceptable tool for ensuring the EU external borders are respected. Its a fuss about nothing since nobody actually believes it would ever be necessary to use. Yet it risks everything for the UK. 

If the UK leaves without a deal a hard border is inevitable in Ireland and who does that benefit most? Ask yourself that question.

Mickeyfinn

You observe “I personally support Irish unification as a long term goal for peace in Ireland. “ .

You’re entitled to your own opinion of course but what does it tell you when you suggest the only way to gain long term peace is dependent on NI citizens  foregoing their UK status? Some citizens would suggest that it’s insensitive and arrogant comments like this that ironically alienate and further undermine the peace process. But also it leaves many to wonder if this is also the longer term political intent of EU Commissioners.

The only realistic way forward is for the EU to demonstrate willingness to discuss and find a mutually acceptable alternative to the backstop. With that in mind this article goes some way to examine alternatives....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-44615404

ads: You’re entitled to your own opinion of course but what does it tell you when you suggest the only way to gain long term peace is dependent on NI citizens foregoing their UK status? 

No I did not write that. Please read my post. Then please apologise for the following remarks you made. I suggested no such thing. 

I actually wrote: I personally support Irish unification as a long term goal for peace in Ireland. There is a full stop after the word Ireland.

I believe peace in Ireland can be achieved by unification but NOT solely by that process. The return to a hard border is a route back to past conflicts and breaches the GF agreement if not in name but in spirit. The backstop is one route of avoiding the inevitable confrontations a hard border will produce. Yet a no-deal exit will produce that effect. There are few people who doubt that.

Johnson seems to be moving towards a border down the Irish sea to replace the backstop. That is a solution the EU can accept but hardly credible in Unionist circles. I have sadly little hope for any agreement.

Mickeyfinn,

Your inference is plain to see I’m afraid since politically it would be convenient for Ireland to be as one nation outside the UK in order that the EUs objectives for a customs union and single market are met. Likewise with Scotland no doubt, but this would be perceived as political manoeuvring for their own longer term political gains. 

You fail to see that the wording of the backstop has been used by the EU in full knowledge of how this had the potential to create problems and undermine the precious peace process, which is unforgivable after the length of time it took to achieve such a sensitive but successful outcome. You also appear to refuse to recognise that the UK had no intention of creating a hard border as has been reinforced in the negotiations many times. The hard border on the UKs part was never an intention,  but the political manoeuvrings and insensitive wording on the EUs part has brought this about, which in turn has unnecessarily stirred up previous NI citizen insecurities.....

If the EU now fail to adapt the wording or be willing to seek out practical alternatives to appease the insecurities following the way this has been handled by the EU, then it will be sadly ( and unforgivably) prove to be of their own making.

Absolute nonsense. The idea that the EU seeks to undermine the peace process is a completely dishonest lie. You are now straying into propaganda territory.

The UK has pledged not to resurrect the hard border. Strange how you believe that and not the EU who have also pledged the same thing. The EU and Ireland seek to protect their external borders that is their only motivation. How on earth can it be in Irelands or the EU's interests to disrupt the GF agreement?.

It is impossible for the EU to guarantee it's external frontiers given NI will be part of a third nation after Brexit. Something has to give, some arrangements must be made even if the UK leaves with no deal. If not the backstop then some inventive scheme that will allow the EU to protect their single market integrity. Surely even you can accept the need for that.

NO

You misinterpret and conclude wrongly again Mickeyfin.

I did not infer that the EU sought a hard border as I’m sure you well know, but conclude that the consequence of the way the EU have managed ( or mismanaged) the whole backstop issue has been to cause unnecessary insecurities to the citizens of Northern Ireland, to reignite the sensitive issue of reunification, when there are alternative ways of managing this issue. It appears to have been used ( whether intentionally or unintentionally) as a political ploy to back the UK into a corner, without any regard for the consequences that have already resulted in tensions and distrust, again an unnecessary ploy when supposedly seeking mutually beneficial agreements. 

Yes, something will have to give of course, but not at the expense of breaking up the union or causing undue tensions between Northern and Southern Ireland.

Johnson and the rest of te shower squatting in Downing street could not give a fig about N. Ireland or Scotland for that matter. The rght wing, carpet baggers and nut jobs in the tory party are using the backstop as an excuse to crash out of Europe while their financial backers make millions by shorting up on the pound. They'll sell out N. Ireland if and when they have to now that they don't need the DUP to prop them up. At the moment they're airing proposals for all Ireland customs union with a border in the Iriah sea

The Union ads will break up on its own eventually if the UK leaves without a deal. That you can be sure of. Scotland will not stand for it and there's a growing majority in NI for unification.

The surest method of keeping the Union in tact is to remain in the EU or make a withdrawl agreement parliament will accept.

This is what the Prime Minister should deliver in a national address:

We have tried in good faith to negotiate. We have offered free trade. We have been polite and courteous even under extreme provocation. We have offered solutions to issues. Under the last Prime Minister we let you draft the deal, and you jointly created an agreement that would have placed us in the role of powerless colony forever. Whilst we rejected that, we did so yet again with extraordinary courtesy and self restraint, hoping for serious, rational proposals that allow continued trade without the complete submission you always demand.

You have not negotiated in good faith. You have disgracefully tried to acquire Northern Ireland by stealth, insisting on a border issue that doesn’t exist. That tactic dangles the threat of terrorism as emotional blackmail. You have exploited the delicate and troubled history of Ireland, and the continued belligerence towards Britain some Irish leaders feel, in order to make a land grab, and you have deliberately threatened the integrity of the United Kingdom. These would be outrageous actions even between established rivals in peacetime, and at many points in history would constitute acts of war. You have similarly hinted at allowing or facilitating Spanish seizure of Gibraltar, against the wishes of the residents there.

On multiple occasions you have gone out of your way to threaten, demean, or insult our nation and it’s representatives. You have discarded all normal diplomatic protocols and openly mocked our nation and it’s people. You have laughed about turning us into a colony, threatened us with international isolation, sought to bully and abuse us at every turn. You have kept our Prime Minister waiting in corridors or refused entry to meetings, all the while demanding continued huge payments from us that prop up your entire edifice.

Recently your contravention of all normal diplomacy and respect between nations has reached new heights. You have conducted meetings with traitorous members of our Parliament, who have briefed you on the best ways to defeat our interests. You have encouraged political agitators and internal dissidents, and provided support and encouragement to a faction refusing to accept a democratic vote. You have attended party political conferences and campaigned for a specific party during elections in this nation, an outrageous interference in our domestic affairs.

We have been very patient, but our patience is at an end. We are a strong and significant nation, and have been for many centuries, indeed for far longer than many other EU nations have even existed. No self respecting nation can tolerate such behaviour or consider those showing such disrespect towards us to be our friends and allies. You are very, very close to making us a determined enemy. We wish for peaceful trade but will never sacrifice our people or our pride in order to obtain it. There are many other nations in the world with whom we can trade, an entire globe that is not encouraging the break up of our nation or its complete political submission. Nations like Australia and New Zealand and the United States who have been true friends and allies. You could learn from their example. If you do not, the shift of our entire economy will be away from you and towards them. You will lose your greatest export market because you were too rude, too arrogant and too full of historical bitterness to treat with us fairly in a dignified manner.

The Prime Minister should be jailed for unlawfully suspending parliament. As for a speech ?.....Johnson has shown in Parliament that he is the bumbling fool he ws rumoured to be. No wonder they are trying to shield him from the Commons.

Borris is doing a fine job..he has took control of a situation that the clown's that call themselves MP's are totally incapable of sorting out..keep the good work up Borris ..you have balls that's for sure.

doesn't look like Johnson's in control of anything to me. Every bill he's put before parliament has been defeated. May managed to wipe out their majority and Johnson has made it worse. He has lied to the queen and to the country. He's finished and when the supreme court rule this week or next, he'll resign. An embarrasment to Britain

Time will tell....

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-19/uk-won-t-be-bound-by-artificial-deadline-as-eu-confirms-brexit-documents-received/

Johnson is far from being in control. His arbitrary proroguing of parliament is an indication he wants to stifle debate. He is displaying dictatorship qualities. Almost everything he does turns to disaster, rather like his chaotic private life.

He badly needs some success he can take to the Tory conference otherwise he's toast. He was put in the position he holds by the Tory Party membership to get a deal. If he fails' that fundamental task he will be ousted. This debate is not about personalities anyway. It's about the future of a country and peoples livelihoods. That is what's at stake here nothing more or less. 

It’s about people and their lives....

Tell all of that to the EU Commission as this is a two way negotiation. Dictatorial intransigent attitudes wherever they emanate from, that fail to listen to citizens concerns without adequate and rational responses or full consideration or willingness to find  mutually beneficial solutions only alienate and will harm us all.

The EU commission has already made a deal. It's the UK parliament who have rejected it.

Tell all of that to the EU Commission as this is a two way negotiation. Dictatorial intransigent attitudes wherever they emanate from, that fail to listen to citizens concerns without adequate and rational responses or full consideration or willingness to find  mutually beneficial solutions only alienate and will harm us all.

Ads: you really cannot or refuse to see the woods for the trees. The last 3.5 years have been spent doing exactly what you alledge the EU will not do. A "mutually beneficial solution" was agreed by both sides. You should be directing your fire against the ERG group and the DUP who voted against the agreement three times.

Methinks you simply seek to bash the EU with any stick you can find and quite frankly what you write on here is complete nonsense.

EU at fault or UK, who cares anymore, not many but the fanatics. Give Boris a decent chance to sort it out and stop pre-judging and slagging him off from Barstool know all’s.

Of course, if the "barstool know-alls" supported your particular point of view then I suspect your response might be a tad different.

What we seem to be witnessing now are both sides publically trying to dance around the subject matter knowing full well a deal is impossible. Juncker is trying to protect his legacy, Barnier is playing the reasonable statesman with an eye to future roles and Johnson is simply going through the motions trying not to skew things up. I don't expect any deal. This has a long way yet to run. Elections probably with a new Tory leader most likely.

A wag on Twitter posted today. If you want to leave vote Tory, if you want to remain vote Lib Dems and if you don't have a clue vote Labour.