San Jose into liquidation.

 Yes, the existence of the Guarantees make the claim completely independent to the unsolvent status of the company and if there was no Bank Guarantee in place, as very rightly my colleague Guadalupe has just posted, there are liabilitied against the Banks which received the deposits out of provision 1.2 of Law 57/68

Good that more lawyers are using 1.2 of Law 57/68

PLease keep us posted on your results Guadalupe!

Maria 

Having purchase and completed in February 2008 and use a lawyer to do a legal work like all the other people in our Complex. we do have a property with the legal deeds obtained in March 2008 when we visited the office of Idearco in Alicante Spain. This lawyer did not do the work he was paid to do as the Builder ceased to trade a week after we completed.

The Builder Architect did not complete all the work on the Complex of 44 apartment in Rafal but left us with several problems like unpaid bills for all the utility services + the lift which has forced very high extra costs to be paid to get the utilities needed. Our community fees have been €80 a month. So much of the uncompleted work is still waiting to be done. Our comunity fees were reduced to €60 a month because the funds saved by the community will now pay for the Electricity Transformer long awaited and still we wait for the site of the Transformer to be confirmed.

March 2016 we were told that on a small claims court were unable to go any further with the court case. We then paid more fees for the new lawyer to continue fighting our case.as a community. We have now been told that the Builder Architect has disapeared. We would like to know what the next steps are. The Builder Architect still owns many of the unfinished shells that were not completed, Has never paid a cent in community fees. and owes the community thousands. Where do the good clean living bill payers go to next, They have kept this unfinished complex going at great cost  But the Spanish Law seems to ignore the plight of so many lovely people, several of which have sold on at a loss. 

The Spanish LAW seems to be in such a mess that nothing is sorted. Perhaps this is why many of the complexes are in such a mess. 10 years in February 2018, which means we are 10 years older and missing the peace we dreamed of in 2007 when we paid our deposit od €10k. This has caused many of the original owners to sell at a very low price which is OK if you have a morgage because the bank will take back the property. We used our life savings and do not wish to loose what we had saved all our working life.

We still wait for Spain and its Government to stop the fraudulant actions of all these evil Builder Architects continuing and also The called professional Spanish Lawyers & Builders cheating thousands of good people and the lives they wished to be living. Without the worry and problems that still continues. 10 years later. We know the Builder has a Huge Yacht and lives the life of riley in some other corner of this wonderful world. But who is he paying to and what Is the EU doning about this problem.

Millions of half built homes in Spain but Builders are still getting permission to build more. Wake up call to the Spanish Government. You have a wonderful Country please look after the good Bill paying property owners that came to Spain to spend their Hard earned Pensions in you Wonderful lovely country. 

For those who completed on their properties many questions arise.

Was an LFO issued for your property prior to completion? 

Has any  habitation licence been issued in the interim period?

 If not, it appears you have in effect been legally compromised by the conveyancing lawyer and notary at point of completion, since they must have been in full knowledge that this would result in you being denied the ability to LEGALLY inhabit your property.

Plus, in that process, presumably you have also been denied the legal right to use utilities? 

But also, have the local authorities turned a blind eye to legal requirements to comply with building and planning regulations, and any other regulatory requirements in this scenario.

What procedures are in place between local authorities and notary to prevent owners from being placed at great risk in this regard?  Isn't this a case of  preemptive regulation that has been breached?

Is the original conveyancing lawyer still in legal practice? And do the lawyer and notary have legal indemnity cover?

The point being, do all of the above stark realities make the notary and lawyer (due to their lack of due diligence),   both complicit in denying you your right to legally inhabit the property with all subsequent knock on effects? And where does the local authority fit into this element of responsibility? Are they too complicit?

As such, do you have a legal case to make a claim for compensation against the notary's and lawyer's legal indemnity, ( and local authority for that matter)?

Also, could any compensation claim include the full value of your property plus all out of pocket interim expenses, since you have been left with a property that you ( or anyone else for that matter) cannot legally inhabit, making it in effect "worthless" in the eyes of the law?

Is this the only way forward in this sorry saga of events?

 But also can this only  become a group claim if each property owner used the same lawyer and notary.....plus are there maximum limits to legal indemnity claims of this nature?

Many, many questions I'm afraid.....

This message was last edited by ads on 08/11/2017.

This message was last edited by ads on 08/11/2017.

Poedoe, I recall your previous posts on the same subject and sorry to hear that little progress has been made.  I was in a similarish situation many years ago and had no help from anyone either.  We still live, very happily, in a property that is without a LFO/Habitation Certificate and there was a fudge to have mains services connected, but as time goes on these limitations become more theoretical and less important.

Hopefully without sounding too patronising you have to.. "when in Rome do as the Romans do"...  I reckon we Brits do take all the rules here far too seriously, far more so than the locals do.  They have a saying the translation is roughly "for every rule there's a way round it" - which in practice seems to be along the lines of just ignore it and do what you want to do. 

You're never going to recoup your losses, but just do what you can, to make the best of it.

I tried the legal process, politicians and the British Embassy - but all equally hopeless.

This may be no help at all, but for sure I'm taking the stance of not worrying about the lack of a  LFO/Habitation Certificate as the locals certainly don't.

With respect Acer, I seem to remember the same message being presented to all those duped of their monies with regards to offplan purchase and Bank Guarantees, and being told that such malpractices (including corrupt, fraudulent  and manipulative activities where complicity took place between agents, banks, and builders to try and evade their legal responsibilities and lawyer's and notaries failure to act with all due care and diligence) would never achieve justice. 

Those of us who fought for justice, fought for a civilised system that prevents abuse and misery in its wake, from the loss of life savings, from all manner of being treated with such disrespect and "milked" at every opportunity by those who have no sense of morality or care for their fellow man, who do Spain and it's wonderful people the gravest of disservice, continue to fight and try and help to rid the system of a cancer in society.....i.e. corruption in all its vicious guises that do such harm to innocents.

The longer this is tolerated, the longer the system remains unchallenged or unreformed, the longer those intent on perpetuating what all too many perceive as unaccountability via protective behaviour at the expense of all too many thousands of innocents, the longer sadly the message BUYER BEWARE remains. 

The skill in challenging such a chaotic system comes from first understanding the system in all its complex forms and then working with trusted professionals who have a similar goal to rid the system of unfair and corrupt malpractices. 

Not easy however when you have a European political structure that encourages cross member state property purchase, but in that process when faced with uncomfortable realities, fails miserably to support the rule of law so essential  to retaining a civilised structure supposedly in place to protect its citizens. 

To perpetuate a failing system does great harm in the longer term and only accentuates insecurity and misery for those caught up in its wake. We all deserve better Acer....

This message was last edited by ads on 09/11/2017.

I agree Ads.  

We have a saying here in England that 'rules are for the guidance of the wise and the obedience of the idiot'.

The problem is, where rules are present, the people who know them the best are the ones who can use them against you when they choose to implement them.

at a time you come to sell a property, when some rule hasn’t been adhered to, this can cost you time and money, even put your life on hold for long periods of time.  

Knowledge is power, but sadly we all have the built in mechanism to think things will be ok if we just carry on, when you get that feeling, alarms should go off inside!!!  

By the way, what happened to the post about the accountant/gestor question?    It looks to have disappeared 

Hi Ads, Sadly the local authority in all these areas must be all in the game as not one of them would take up the case of many thousands of buyers in Spain that have the same problem. The Spanish LAW needs adjusting. to protect the purchasers who just love Spain but end up loosing their savings of many years even though they have paid the taxes on all they have earned during their working lifetime. XXXX

Ads,

The good new is that, in regards to illegal properties, Supreme Court extended the use of Law 57/68 not just for those cases of delay but also to cases of lack of urban licenses. So Banks need to answer for this too.

Ads, Briando55

Your comments are of course totally right, but sadly this is just theory and the authorities don't seem to care and appear content to do nothing.

Perhaps a different approach is needed.  If the UK government gave a stronger warning to potential purchasers of Spanish property this might motivate the Spanish authorities to take action, or risk a further decline in property sales?  Just thinking the powers that be in Spain need a reason to taken action as they seem happy with the status quo.

But not good timing.  I would write to my MP, but sadly he's just lost his job for putting his hand on a woman's knee 15 years ago.  LOL.  But given the absurd power of the UK media, perhaps these guys should be the target?

Acer, perhaps the UK government don't care and are content to do nothing.

Sadly, worldwide, the priority for people with power and authority is ‘’what’s in it for me’’, the welfare of those who elected them and pay their wages comes a long way second.

The problem appears to be associated with gaining accountability of the Banks relating to past misdemeanours in cases where developers have gone into liquidation with all the subsequent knock on effects. 

So looking at this rationally, the UK government would not be in a position to apply pressure to affect ALL ongoing sales, as this is connected with PAST history, not future sales. Forewarning re purchase in Spain could only be directed towards those sales where properties have no existing legal licence in place. 

So perhaps the question to ask is how many completed properties in Spain have no legal licence in place and is this tactic to forewarn not to buy such properties of such a magnitude to impact and motivate the authorities into corrective action? 

What seems to be far more relevant and concerning now however is the insecurity in Spain that comes from Banks being unregulated and having the power (without adequate speedy financial disincentives in place ) to run roughshod over the Spanish Justice system.

For example the Banks now  appear to be ignoring a system of out of court settlements associated with mortgage floor clauses which has resulted in some 57 thousand cases coming to court within the last 3 months alone. This now means that an already overloaded  justice system is being further compromised.

The bottom line is that forewarning to all citizens needs to be made from all quarters with regard to Banks remaining unregulated in Spain which has resulted in citizens being left with a justice system unable to cope .... with a system that if allowed to continue in this unregulated form will significantly impact the  rule of law for ALL citizens in Spain.

The stark reality is that although progress is thankfully being made in terms of the judiciary and Supreme Court rulings recognising the legal responsibilities of Banks, this counts for little if the system of justice continues to be compromised in this way....in effect it's as though the Banks are purposefully demonstrating an element of bad faith which MUST now be tackled if citizens rights and the rule of law are to be honoured in Spain.

Without adherence to the rule of law and a justice system significantly compromised in this way, all citizens will be exposed to immense risk from Banks and corrupt elements running roughshod over their lives. 

The European Commission who currently have the power to take action through infringement rights need to recognise this real challenge to the Spanish system of justice from the Banks bad faith and impact on the rule of law in Spain, and take all necessary action asap, so long as the Spanish Govt allow this threat to continue uncontested.

So I have to ask once again, what are law firms doing to proactively address this situation in protection of not only citizens rights but also the very foundation of justice upon which all citizens rely?

Hi Ads,

One of the inovations in our country, following on from the tecnological advancements is that the information concerning land registry, ownership and title, planning consent, building contol consent and completion certifiaction........is all available online to be checked by the individual and their legal agents.  You can look these things up as a matter of public records, or for a very minimal admin fee structure.

When this is available and can be checked in that way, it cuts off the options of the parties who want to trade on ignorance.  Its power to the people!!

Thats part of the comment I made about knowledge being power, its also a mark of progress when a country can work towards informing its citizens about their daily lives and the things they hold dear.   Its called progress!

Sad as it is spain is not alone in this type of crap

Even in the uk PPI hidden in loans small print has taken a lot if time to be resolved and many still have not claimed despite the transparency in the uk

Add to that the paradise papers etc so much is wrong amongst the finance institutions and govts across the globe.

Steve,

PPI claims are handled out of court in the UK so they are not compromising the rule of law, and Banks are being made accountable for those who "choose" to follow this claim through. 

Many who haven't claimed either do so from choice or from failure to meet the criteria. 

The fact this is taking time is in the main not down to the Banks being obstructive to  the claim procedure as in Spain, it's quite the opposite, but to extend the timeframe open to claimants to check if they qualify.

Not comparable I'm afraid.

Yes Steve and they continue to take the P”””

New advert shows Lloyds Bank is by Britain’s side
The advert tells the story of Lloyds Bank’s long-standing support for the people, businesses and communities of Britain – and how we’ve been by our customers’ sides for over 250 years.

It does not mention

Lloyds Banking Group has been fined a record £28 million after the UK’s financial regulator uncovered “serious failings” in its bonus schemes that put pressure on sales staff to hit targets or avoid being demoted.
The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) said a lack of control of incentive schemes for advisers within Lloyds TSB, Bank of Scotland and Halifax risked customers being sold products that were unsuitable or not needed.
 

Good to hear of fines being used as continuing disincentive against Banks' abusive practices in the UK. :)

Why I wonder aren't fines being similarly used against the Banks  in Spain to act as disincentive against ignoring out of court settlement procedures for mortgage floor claims? 

A wrongful protectionist approach perhaps that places citizens rights way down the pecking order?

This message was last edited by ads on 10/11/2017.

Maybe Ads.   Any pioneers who facilitate fairness, become the ones who first expose their own previous failings.   

The direction they then follow eventually exposes the weaknesses in others.  Hopefully after a time of unfair criticism of the pioneers, to deflect their own failings, the others will adopt the fairness that develops.   

Through embarrassment if nothing else! 

Ads 

Maybe but if the banks do wrong such as "hidden" PPI or floor clauses it should not be the courts to manage every case

The banks once caught should simply pay out without legal intervention and ambulance chaser law firms pestering people 

PPI was challenged in court and it is only the threat of court action by the ambulance chasers that make them pay out

No point in beating up just spain when many others are just as bad.  

Steve

I think you misunderstand my posting....this was never a case of "beating up just Spain"... I agree that Banks should be made accountable without court action wherever possible. But equally there is also a need to provide adequate disincentives for continuing abuse or purposeful  bad faith in that process.

But the ambulances in the UK know where to go and the general public also have the means to do this themselves, successfully.   

I think in Spain the ambulances have only slow engines with no sat-navs and the general public are kept away from getting involved in such high level legal work!!!.

Is that a fair analogy?