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Hi Tim,
Again i agree with most of what you say.
I am worried that you seem to think that and i quote" even in the UNLIKELY event that they find a place where they want to be for the foreseeable future"
I don't think you are giving enough credit to people and their decision making process,i have absolutely no problem with people renting here,it's not for me and never has been because i trust my own judgement and i have never felt the desire to put all my personal affects and furniture that make a house a home into storage for any amount of time.
The difference in our thinking is mainly to do with the end product,you dont want to buy because you are worried that you may get it cheaper next year or the year after,or if you buy it may be worth less next year.
I tend to look at a longer term strategy and for a different gain.
I trust my gut feeling and then do my due dilligence schools etc.....
Most retired people have been around long enough to know what they like,they have the money from years of good decision and a buffer from the same means.
I doubt we will ever agree or though i greatly respect your opinions,i just wonder if we would be having this conversation if this was the year 2001.............
As you say,Life is uncertain,that what makes it so much fun...........
Just to add i would be interested to know the people who have to sell and take the now famous 50% hit!!!!
The last few properties we have sold other than the bank stock have taken normal offers and some of the vendors that were returning to the UK have actually done quite well after buying at 1.50 plus and selling at 1.23...
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still here after all these years!
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Ok Georgia
I agree.......that I doubt we will ever agree. Thats ok - thats what makes the world go around lol. My wife and I agree to disagree on lots of things, sometimes she thinks I'm a pig lol.
"The difference in our thinking is mainly to do with the end product,you dont want to buy because you are worried that you may get it cheaper next year or the year after,or if you buy it may be worth less next year."
No no and no. I don't want to buy now because property is terrible value. Why would I want to pay twice as much to buy a house as to rent the same one. When this occurs its screaming at you, trying to tell you a message.
"I don't think you are giving enough credit to people and their decision making process."
One look at this board and all the sad stories, or one look in the paper at all the faceless non descript unwanted two bed apartments, or one look in the media at all the developers going bust and the thousands of court cases and repossessions, tells me the exact opposite. Way way too much credit has been given to people's judgements and the ensueing mess in Spain is a testament to that.
"I doubt we will ever agree or though i greatly respect your opinions,i just wonder if we would be having this conversation if this was the year 2001............."
Exactly my point, I'm saying don't buy now, 2008. In 2001 the market was a very different place, property was much cheaper, the pound was stronger, and the current boom was in its infancy. I think I might have said buy one to live in an another as an investment.
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Hi Tim,
I agree,no sorry disagree,i mean agree to disagree.....oh i don't know.......
I suppose what i am saying is it depends where and what you are buying,where i live there are no 2 bed apartments and in the village the majority are owned by the Spanish who live in them.
You could quite easily get a 3 bed detached villa for £120,000,i suppose that is the debate,i consider that great value considering what that will buy you in the UK.
Average house price in the UK £200,000,sell that+buy villa+£80,000 in the bank+savings+pension= 
Thats my equation anyway and i am sticking to it.
Nice to see you back on the forum..................
Regards
Georgia
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www.taylorlandandpropertygroup.co.uk
still here after all these years!
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I had a couple in this morning. They are here in Spain looking to buy a 3 bed detached for holidays, rentals and long term investment. They are viewing with me this afternoon a property with a bank val of 280,000€ Nice detached fully furnished, pool, large plot 15 mins from coast down a private track Owners will take 210,000 I will charge 215,000€.
I told the couple it was possible they could see the bank val next year drop below 215,000€ if things get really bad. They were not at all concerned as the wife had a large cleaning company with 70 staff and they would all rent it out at some point, so the rental side was sewn up. They have cash because her business is doing well and plan to sell the business in 5 years and live in the villa. I suspect in 5 years they will have seen a decent increase in the property value because it will be 15 minuites from the new airport due in 2010.
Just one of the many individual examples why some people can still justify why they are buying in Spain.
Just to add, though these cases are happening, the market is still very very slow and will remain so for a long time to come.
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From todays Telegraph - the piper is finanly asking to be paid, has Spain really got any clothes? There are those "collapse" and "Stagflation" words again .....
The eurozone racked up a record current account deficit of €15.3bn in March, seasonally adjusted. BNP Paribas said the so-called "PIGS" (Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain) are dragging down the trade performance of the bloc.
All have suffered a relentless loss of competitiveness since EMU was launched. The deficits have reached 10pc of GDP in Spain and 14pc in Greece. None has begun to narrow the gap in unit labour costs with Germany, ensuring that the inevitable adjustment will be more severe when it comes.
Indeed, Spain's inflation surged to a record 4.7pc in May. The country now faces the most acute "stagflation crisis" in the developed world. House prices have fallen 15pc nationwide since September, according to the developers' association (APCE). Madrid University warned this week that Spain's property slump could throw 1.1m people out of work.
Mr Redeker said the 'PIGS' quartet was now facing "collapse", with mounting signs of stress in France as well after consumer confidence fell to the lowest level in 20 years. French property sales fell 28pc in the first quarter.
"There are a lot of ugly surprises in store as deleveraging finally hits Europe. Investors are going to stop treating the eurozone as if it were Germany, and take very close look at the deficits of the southern countries. We can expect bond spreads to widen significantly," he said. "We will discover in this downturn whether the eurozone is really an 'optimal currency area'. This is the test."
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You know, a lot of people will think that this thread is all 'doom and gloom' for Spain.
Well far from it!
In a nut shell, there is a world recession. Where ever you look, at whatever country, there's recession. Liken it to the seasons of the year, however they happen over decades, just take a look at 30's America and then look at 80's America.
Right now the price of Oil is causing global problems and it will take some years before we stop seeing the ramifications of this, coupled with the credit crunch.
Having said all that, where would we rather be riding this storm out, here in the UK or in Spain, where for years we have felt at home - do you really need us to answer that question? We are getting out now whilst the going is bad, before it becomes worse. Look at it this way, when the Euro exchange rate goes up, and property prices in Spain start to go back up, property value in the UK will have continued to go down, and therefore in the long term, we will be WORSE off.
We are moving to Spain no matter what, because at the end of the day, I will still have to work very hard whether I live in the UK or Spain. The difference, the fact that even though I will earn less money in Spain and work more hours, my money will STILL go further than it EVER will here in the UK, and my Mrs and I will have a better standard of life!
Property prices will always fluctuate, they cannot continue to rise and rise, but as we plan on living the rest of our lives lives in Spain, what do we care about property prices fluctuating, negative equity, etc - as in a few years time, it WILL be the reverse of what we have now.
Except maybe the price of oil!!!!
'Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread'
However ....
'Fortune favours the brave'
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Me, the Mrs and Rosie too! But we'll never, ever forget our Tyler!
We support AAA Abandoned Animals Marbella - Do you?
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Sorry Gillespie, I've not popped in to this thread until now, so belated thanks for your rather nice comment!
Very interesting thread - can't believe I've missed it!
I just posted a question for TJ on another thread, but will put it here as well, in case it gets seen sooner: TJ, what's your take on the trucker's strike situation? I know you predicted this, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to hear your views....
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
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hi all, been reading all of the posts in this tread (good food for thought )i am currently in the buying stage of buying anapartment in cds have 30% on a 2 bed money put down in 2005 off plan total price 198,000 before iva viewed same style apartment 2 weeks ago an viewed another one with a very large terrace plus better views an small yard of the kitchen the builder is looking an extra 20,000 this seems a good deal to me should a go ahead an buy this one at an extra 20,000 with the way the market is going? not buying for short term profit ,thoughts please.
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Hi Martin,
Hmm! Good question.
Valuation wise, depends on the size of the terrace and the yard. Terraces are valued at one third the per square metre build value, any 'covered' terrace is more to the half, and the yard I would have thought about the same, unless it garden, then you're talking about 300 euros per square metre. So based on what you've said, methinks €20,000 is a lot extra to pay for what you will gain - try haggling
These values are the ones they seem to use in Duquesa area, what area is your apartment?
Also, question you have to ask yourself, do YOU feel it's worth it? What 'value' has been put on the apartment you are buying?
As you say, it's not for short term gain, you will enjoy better views, will have a larger terrace, and a yard from the kitchen. And as your going to buy no matter what, I'd go for the extra but not at that cost.
Well, that's my opinion!
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www.andalucianstyle.com
Me, the Mrs and Rosie too! But we'll never, ever forget our Tyler!
We support AAA Abandoned Animals Marbella - Do you?
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hi technoape thanks for the reply,terrace is looking at plan 6m6m6m6m yard as i call it is4m2m4m2m with no roof inclosed tho we have asked lawyer to ask builder to take 15,000 as of yet no reply form her, its in a development called arenal golf,as for value in process of looking for mortgage.
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Martin, have you joined the development board for Arenal Golf on EOS? Maybe other buyers there will have useful opinions or advice for you.
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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thank for your reply roberto have join over 2 years ago lol but thanks for the imput
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2 years and only 29 posts on the general forum? That Arenal board must be really interesting! 
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"
Mark Twain
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Hi Martin,
Join the Arenal Golf phases 2-5 forum and post your question.There are quite a lot of buyers who will be able to help you,did you buy on phase 4 ?
Cheers,
Dave.
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Hi Martin,
Based from what you have said, sounds like the Terrace is 36sqm and the yard is 8sqm. I expect the yard will be laid to lawn?
For Valuation purposes, if the measurements are the USEABLE area then:
Terrace 36sqm x €767 = €27,612
Yard 8 sqm x €300 = €2,400
Total = €30,012
If the measurements are build size, then the useable area will be less, and the valuation will go on useable area ONLY. This message was last edited by TechNoApe on 6/13/2008.
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Me, the Mrs and Rosie too! But we'll never, ever forget our Tyler!
We support AAA Abandoned Animals Marbella - Do you?
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Martin
I would try and get out of the whole thing if possible, let alone commit good money to bad. Have you had a look at the comparable price of resales around you. There are literally hundreds of thousands of desperate sellers looking to find a buyer, if anything is selling my guess is the price is 50% off. Its going to get a whole lot worse. Property in the UK is on the edge of a huge cliff, most agents I have talked to say not even prime property is selling and anything that does is going 10 to 15% under the offer. Property in Spain will fall another 50% min - I am absolutely serious about this. The Spanish economy is about to fall off a cliff with 25% of th workforce in one way or another employed in the houseing industry. Experts expect 1million new unemployed next year.
By the time you have paid IVA agents fees etc your purchase will be the best part of 1/4 million pounds for a two bed apartment, that probably cost the developer 35k to put up. There are milions upon millions of two bed apartment in Spain looking for a buyer the market is saturated with the B things. Noone is goping to buy them, Sp[ain put up more property last year than the whole of the rest od Europe combined.
Pls wake up look at the papers look at the sob stories on this very site, look at the credit crunch thread and see how right I have been. look at the section on here of property for sale only getting bigger by the day with nothing selling.
Come to Sapin enjoy the sun and lifestyle but don't buy property you will for ever regret it. I have been here 8mnths enjoying living in Spain renting a lovely cheap house that would cost me twice as much to buy as to rent. Since I have been here property has lost 25% min and thats if you can find a buyer - 95% cant.
Don't fall for the "its my home I don't care if it falls in value" line - thats the line used by all these people on here who strangely have a vested interest in you buying - they are agents ffs and desperate for some income. Life is uncertain you may have to move for 1001 reasons and when you do you will find you can/t sell for 50% of what you paid.
I know this post will go down badly, but just out of interest lets say you bought tomorrow. Now ask Rixxy on here how much she could sell your very property for! Give her the details and ask her please.\
TRust me next year you will be lucky to get 100k for your two bed apartment. Rent now and get one next year - infact you could get two for 200k.
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Hi TJ,
So everyone that disagrees with you has a vested interest?
As for all the bad luck stories around there are 10 times as many with a happy ending,where i live there are NO 2 bed apartments for sale because there are no 2 bed apartments.
Not everyone wants to rent and not everyone wants to buy,basically if you have money in this economy there is not a better time to buy anything, with the credit crunch hitting all the furniture shops,car dealers,vendors,developers they are all offering deals and discounts on their product s vying for you hard earned in a difficult market place,these deals were not available 18 months ago.
You keep going on about apartments for 200k that nobody will buy,i am not suprised, that will buy you a nice 3 bed villa around here,i am not sure what area you are in but it must be massively overpriced.
Apartments here are selling for around the 90k mark so why would you pay 200k?
Rixxy works in the CDS where an illusion was created that you MUST pay over the going rate to live there as that was the norm,now the stark realisation has hit that it was all smoke and mirrors.
Spain fortunately does not solely consist of the Costa del Sol.
We will never ever agree on this as i have a different outlook and value on lifestyle than you.
I bet you are the sort of person that stands outside Debenams at christmas when they have their sale telling everyone it will get cheaper then ending up staring at empty shelves.
The actual facts of your infamous 50% drop in prices across the board that we have heard about for the last 6 months is not materialising and the only drops are coming from vendors who are desperate to sell,for your average retired couple sitting on the terrace,smiling and enjoying life there is no need to be concerned how much the square meterage they are sitting on is rising or falling.
In 1991 i was an agent in the UK,what a terrible time to buy that was,but i did and over the years made a 256% profit when i sold,maybe i should have rented?
And please, to take the glory and blow your own trumpet about how right you have been concerning the credit crunch,to copy and paste from the Telegraph's finacial page hardly makes anyone Nostradamus does it.
Regards
Georgia
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www.taylorlandandpropertygroup.co.uk
still here after all these years!
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