No, we are no longer owners. We sold June 2007, I suppose we no longer have any right to comment but we were so incensed by the whole Los Collados "con" we still talk about it.

Spanish property is a scandal, not only in Aguilas. We live in Spain a kilometer away from an unfinished urbanisation whic was stopped by the Junta three years ago because it was being built illegally in the "campo" without the proper permission. The developer was subsequently fined 3 million euros and has disappeared and the mayor of the local town which granted the phoney permission faces gaol. We are left with an unfinished urbanisation.

Los Collados is at least legal but faces immense problems, not least of all maintenence. When we were owners we were paying around 20 euros per month maintenence. Given that half the properties, at that time, were unsold and a fair percentage of owners then were not paying maintenence, for one reason or another, there must be insufficient funds to maintain the complex properly. I think we have all seen that.

You all need to stick together and form a residents association, a big job for someone, which will represent your joint intrests to Mar y Casas and the maintenence company through a series of regular, scheduled meetings. Through personal experience I know how difficult it is to get rid of a maintenence company and your best bet is to work with them in a very professional, structured way. I know, not what you wanted. You wanted to relax/holiday/retire, but I believe this is the only way.

Good luck

I shall soon be on my way back after attending the funeral of a dear friend, and due to my dear friend's upset I stayed longer than planned but kept looking at the Dunas bloggy to see if anything dramatic was going on.I was most upset by the way SallyP's posting was received and out of sympathy feel I need to show the link below so people can see that it was a major yahoo announcement on the www.

SallyP - I too saw it when it was first advertised, took me a while to locate the page you had used for reference, but I could not let the matter be left as it was, for your sake if nothing else,though the whole thing seems to have quietened down and the subject laid to rest for the sanity of us all.

For everyone to see, it is below, but if you want to see the full edition then hopefully the oldlink below will work if pasted into 'file'/open'  if not then it is pasted as best as possible below.

blog.wired.com/business/2008/03/yahoo-can-stick.html

Yahoo Sticks It Where the Sun Don't Shine

By Betsy Schiffman March 31, 2008 | 3:41:42 PMCategories: Yahoo  

Yahoo likes the ladies -- or it thinks it can profit off them, anyway.  The company rolled out a women's site today called "Shine," which will cover parenting, sex and love, healthy living, food, career and money, entertainment, fashion, beauty, home life and astrology -- pretty much everything we hate about women's magazines.


the following is the follow up article (on yahoo shine) regarding the displeasure of people using washing lines when they should not be eg : have signed a property clause agreeing not to ( ie ; washing/line should not be viewable from anywhere or any other property)  & likewise the same applies to ironing outdoors - further down in the responses, but I am not trawling through 120 plus since  ?  to find it, its there if you read through the whole 'home section'

HANGING CLOTHES OUTSIDE ON A CLOTHES LINE

• by sunshines, on Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:42pm PDT
• Read More from This Author »

• Posted by Eric S Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:42pm PDT

Often times you need to read between the lines with laws.. In vancouver clotheslines are not allowed either but portable dryers that open up like an umbrella are allowed.. as they are not stationary and u put it away afterwards. I think drying clothing outside is environmentally friendly and simultaneously makes clothes bright and smell fantastic... However clotheslines are really eye sores and thats why there were likely band in most places.

I have just read all these comments, having not looked at the site for some time - WOW!

It seems to me that very few of these comments are actually constructive and probably more harmful to the future of Los Collados and our investments!

I think that people who are not owners of properties in Los Collados should get off the forum and leave it to the actual current owners to make comments. I dont wish to be rude but i think it is none of your business Fionn what happens in Los Collados! and your comments are not helpful in the least! All owners in los Collados are adults who made their decisions to buy and dont need outdated experience/ views of Los Collados to add fuel to the fire! cant you join a forum for where you live!

I actually think that my comments were constructive. You need to form the residents association and take on the developers and the management company. Clear thought and decisive action are what's needed, not silly personal comments.

Hi to everyone who has posted recently, I have appreciated Fionn's support regarding some of the postings on this site and agree with the view that we need some sort of owners network (my previous postings bear witness to the fact that I have been banging on about this for ages) However I also feel that current information from current owners about the issues on the urbanisation is also crucial and am pleased to be able to let you all know that Justin Aldridge who runs the Eye on Spain site has confirmed that in Nov 2008, there will be a new forum which will be private for current owners only and I am very interested in this - anyone else interested please let me know as I am willing to do some initial setting up work because I really want Las Dunas to be the best it can be and I think a private owners site would be a good start.

Ps there are also postings by Las Dunas owners on the Collados Bajo site and they make interesting reading as companion pieces to this thread!

Amanda

Thanks for your thanks. I'm going to bow out now. Good luck to all of you.

This message was last edited by fionn on 10/4/2008.

Fionn,

I shall be SORRY to see you bow out, for what its worth I TOO THINK YOUR comments have been very very helpful, as its been mentioned before by many, you have lived here, moved on and are in the privilidged position of being able to give an honest opinion based on comparison (spelling not too hot today folk -sorry).

I dont get why people want to 'hush/cover' things up because they are so scared of loosing rental. My view on rental is : if you have to rely on it you shouldnt be buying.
No doubt that comment will upset a few, but its the reality of life, even more so with the euro blah blah blah.

Like Amandarowan, I second the value of Fionn's input, yet it worries me that these forums are about to become forums where anything mentioned that upsets someone else for whatever reason eg : so close to the honest truth, that it will become a forum based on :you can only speak if you're 'in my gang' - very much a playground attitude leading to outcasting those who's opinions you don't like or worse still. putting those owners in an 'exclusion box'

If  a 'closed shop' is the only means of communication, well, count me out, freedom of speech and information is what having Englsih roots is/was all about, and now it looks like they are to supressed, unless of course you see everything through rose tinted glasses and remain in denial and grovel to those who will  'censor your opinion'

Personally I doubt people give a hoot about what's said or done anymore on Dunas, there are enough links re Dunas where owners have expressed their views on it being .......................................................... or bad. So what good is gagging people when the information confirming owners' bad comments are already on the web. Like it or not they are owners and have a right to say what they think. Police it, and it looses its credibility

my advice to those who dont like what people say to the point you feel it will hinder rental , dont waste your efforts moaning, put them to better use and sell up then you wont have to worry about being reliant on rental.

None of us are happy about the euro, dropping property prices, credit crunch and people not thinking about having overseas holidays or safeguarding themselves with hotel holiday packages instead of rental and flight only. But its life, people with property overseas have had a good run for their money for many years, if people didnt heed the warning that the 'property bubble' was about to burst, well, that's their own issue, but thinking you can solve things with a 'policed closed shop' is nothing more than 'fools gold'   IF you bought the right property IN the right place it will rent, its that simple.

I will not be giving any of my time to 'closed forums' to me it's like saying  "you can only come to the party IF ..........  and these are the conditions" Sorry folk, not my style, I'm one for open hearts.minds,opinions and facing your fears/worries. Thats life - warts an' all !

oh4

Hi O4hindsight

I have repeatedly said that I agree that honest comment about what needs putting right is essential but I do not think that a "moaning free for all" on a public website serves to improve Las Dunas De Cope in anyway whatsoever and I know from the private emails I have received and conversations whilst in Spain that many owners have given up on this website because it has turned into a moanfest- it has no credibility whatsoever in my view, and recent posts have been by a very small minority 4-5 most of whom seem to regret their decision to buy (including Fionn who is not actually a current owner)

 A private owners website is not about hushing things up, or gagging people  if anything some people may feel they can be more honest. It is about a safe environment where issues can be shared and hopefully resolved/actioned by a group of people (current owners) with a common aim to improve Las Dunas De Cope. This approach would benefit owners who love Las Dunas and those who want to sell and make the best of their investment


I feel really fed up that so much energy is wasted by criticising Los Collados, this energy could be chanelled to improve things.

I will definately participate in a private owners only site,  that works constructively to improve things and but will not post on this site in future as it seems pointless to continue these circular debates that do nothing to improve things or move them forward in a consructive way.

Thanks for making your position clear on an "owners only private forum". I guess we will have to agree to disagree.  The mischievious part of me has to say that I find it amusing that your earlier posts are all about the objectionable behaviour of your neighbours who peg out and iron their laundry in public on their roof terrace and yet here you are advocating a policy of  "washing the dirty laundry of the urbanisation" on a public website.

Amanda

no you have gotten my reply all wrong.

i agree very much with your view on a proper site, what i dont agree with or perhaps have worries about is simply who will control it, how can you stop the victor meldrews from forever moaning, and by that i mean moaning just to get their moaning fix.

plus i am also worried about people making off the cuff remarks, eg why are you now having a go at me for simply defending a persons position regarding the yahoo shine front page, i am not (as you put it) advocating anything, i do however agree that to get this place to a standard that will - shall we say - at least survive , then the bar has to be raised. By that i do strongly think that people should firstly be more considerate to other's views, who would run into a show house/flat and say 'give me one with a view of washing and ironing, i want to buy/rent that one ?' would you ? or have you chosen a view ?  i see nothing wrong with expressing my view on washing, if i wanted to look at washing lines all day i'd buy next to a chinese laundry. (apologies to anyone chinese, or owning a laundry  - it is merely an example, nothing personal)

if you can set up such a system i am sure you'll have a lot of support, including mine, if it is set up properly. but, and again whoever is going to oversee it continues to have to 'have the last say or point the finger' in a tone that upsets then it will soon become worthless.

sorry, but your last sentence has upset me, it is wrong to make that accusation of me, i do not see anything raised on these dunas sites as that bad, they may not be pleasent to read, but the majority are words of truth, and you cannot or should i say should not make such a comment to those who speak with sincere honesty, or find the courage to express what is tormenting them on a daily basis ,it is wrong and degrading, and i am most upset by it.

if my portrayal of my upset, hurts your feelings i apologise upfront, at the end of the day all i want to see is progress, and if it means thrashing out unpleasentries so be it, at least the issues get raised, but please dont resort to throwing a return comment that offends, it is uncalled for. i still stand by my belief that i have a right to say i am offended by washing/ironing in public view, it may seem trivial to you, but i am sure you also feel strongly about something which to another seems trivial. the only difference is how people take it on board, right now you have made me feel like my opinion accounts for nothing, and even more i also feel even more upset that you have added a closing jibe towards me.

so please,  whatever you set up, allow people to have their opinion and dont make their trauma worse by a judgement which is from your side only. i had great admiration for what you had just written until your 'advocay' comment, then i just felt empty and my hopes of improvement betrayed to the point i almost feel like chucking my keys into the sea and getting on a plane back to the uk and saying 'sod it' - that's right, your comment  made me feel totally worthless and stupid  for sticking up for someone who had referred to a yahoo shine header page (which clealry you had not seen) and  I am now asking myself the question, how is anything going to be sorted if when people speak on behalf of  or defend those  who feel too frightened to speak for themself all they get is an off the cuff reply ? well it wont because people will soon take the view, if it doesnt affect me dont get involved and that is what i would hope would be avoided, though right now its how i feel.

i am sure deep down you didnt mean to upset me, and i am sure your are as frustrated as others, but to make this work everyone needs to depersonalise and just put efforts into pulling in one direction, until the jobs done. i still think you can pull it off as long as you can stand back and say ; that may may not be a big deal to me, but it clearly is to someone else, and address it, it could make all the difference, and soon people will  take notice, they will realise something no matter how small will get due attention and not be dismissed as trivial.

for what its worth, you have my blessing on this venture, and as long as you can detach from your own opinion you clearly will make it successful as you are full of determination and obviously most capable. but even now, after writing as near an essay, all i can think about is your closing sentence, and it will take a while for me to recover from it, as they say : the first cut is the deepest ,and my whole being feels its been cut to the quick.

oh4

Hello O4hindsight
I am sorry you have had such a bad reaction to my final comments.

I am glad however that we do have some common ground on the way forward and in general terms I think we need a group of people involved in co-ordinating a group as there is always a risk of dictatorship if all power resides with one person and I have posted on this website for volunteers.  At best what you are likely to get from me is some action to get the private owners forum off the ground I have no intention of trying to lead it or run it.

I would like to think that owners of all nationalities fromLas Dunas and the wider urbanisation of Los Collados will join the private owners forum and that we can develop a process where all owners views are represented to Gesisur for voting at the AGM, or to the President of the community or whoever we need to lobby. 

I also feel that we will need to have a democratic process for sorting out areas where there is a direct conflict of interest for example between your views on laundry and your neighbours.  My personal view on laundry which is different to yours would not deter me from raising this issue with Gesisur or try to prevent you from raising it. But I would reserve my right to use my vote as an owner according to my needs and values should the issue be on the agenda at the AGM.

I hope this clarifies my views on how a private forum could work and once again I am sorry that you were upset my final remarks

Good Wishes
Amanda

unfortunately not all of us share your view, some of us are too old to use these blessed computers and getting on to one site is a struggle let alone trying to get to another one for owners, how do you think we old people are going to manage this ??????

we only struggle with it to keep in contact with grandchildren, and as we don't know when are tickers are going to give up we have more precious things to do.

I HAVE STOCKINGS; GIRDLES; AND MY HUSBAND'S VESTS TO WASH AND IRON  -  BUT DON'T USE AN OUTDOOR LINE, AND WE AS SURE AS 'ELL WOULDN'T THINK OF DOING IRONING OUTDOORS.PUT IT DOWN TO BEING AN OLDER GENERATION - WE HAVE WORKED TO LIVE AND NOW WE LIVE TO ENJOY LIFE AND ARE REWARDED BY THE JOY WE BRING TO OTHERS FROM THE SIMPLE CONSIDERATIONS IN LIFE.

whoever hindesigh is, he or she is right on the button, keep your washing to yourself,washing lines and the like are a blot on the landscape no matter what country you live in including spain.

lacerta family

To Lacerta (family)

If there was to be an owners network then of course I am sure that in addition to the private owners website there could be provision for another chosen form of communication for those who do not have a personal computer or those who do not have the IT skills and don't want to aquire them.  (all you would need to do is ask)


For what it is worth my own personal view on the laundry issue is as follows:

We have a roof top solarium and balcony, the rooftop has neighbours on two sides with a 6 foot wall between us, we can also see across to other root tops across the Lavadero opening in the middle of the block but this is limited and would require some neck craning to see anything other than the tops of pergolas and umbrellas and vice versa I imagine.
We have a retractable washing line set up below the level of the lowest wall so it cannot be seen by anyone unless they are looking over a 6 foot wall or have a bendable telescope.  We also have a small airer in the laverdero - neither of these is particularly efficient because they don't catch much breeze.  We chose these methods as they present the least intrusive option to ourselves and others BUT I absolutely defend the rights of others to dry their laundry in any way that does not contravene the stated community policy and if in some individuals view that policy needs changing then they should take their complaint to the adminisrator and community president and try to get a change in rules AND I also defend the right of those people to do just that.
As for ironing outdoors, I do it because I enjoy the sunshine and as far as I know cannot be seen unless someone is making a very special effort to look (and why would they)

I think my last email made it quite clear that I would hope that all views would be represented and debated constructively I have tried (I think) to offer some constructive ideas for getting improvements to Las Dunas De Cope and Los Collados and was willing to do some of the work to make it happen but feel like no progress is being made whatsoever.

So having read the latest 2 posts and done some serious thinking I have decided to unsubsribe to the Eye on Spain site and also to take no further action to either set up an owners website or a network, I had hoped that in addition to setting up an owners network to tackle issues of concern to owners we would also have been able to swap ideas on beaches, restaurants, shops etc.and that it would be something that was fun, supportive, inclusive and positive (how naive was I?)
It seems to me that it will be a stressfull and thankless task and frankly like a lot of other people who post on this site I have better things to do with my time.

So to those who have offered support and private messages, my thanks and also apologies I am no longer going to try and set up a network/website for owners if you would like to keep in touch please do some of you have my email address already and if not Simone has it (just ask her to email  Amanda Rowan with your address)

So Adios and good luck
Amanda