car boot sales

Morning

While not wanting to add further to the current hysteria surrounding this infernal "credit crunch"  -  I do have some concerns over my investment at Polaris mid to longer term and wonder if anyone else feels the same ??

Hearing more doom and gloom last nght about Spanish / German recession fears and property meltdowns thoughout Europe.


We are on the verge of completing and l am like a kid waiting for Xmas with days in the sun etc etc BUT then the worrying devil on my shoulder (my darling wife)  raises doubts  - my worries are...

1) To date we have paid cash up front and now only now are we taking on a Spainish mortgage as such our financial risk has increased

2) Should Polaris go bust what happens to the site and golf course and all the services - will we be stuck on nice property on a rundown and un-cared for development ??

I should say I have been to all the Polaris sites and what they have done is A1 and the quality fantastic (thats the reason I brought with them) but I just have a nagging fear in the current economic climate 

Be interesting to hear if anyone else has any thoughts or worries on this front ??

Rgds
Mark




This message was last edited by snorkychopper on 9/11/2008.

Mark this has been my worry from day one, no company is bullet proof in this climate, I guess it's a huge risk for all of us but saying that it's one I'm prepared to take, although I am concerned how they can continue to sell properties in the current market.

One thing going for Polaris is they employ a huge amount of people in the Murcia region directly and indirectly and guess they would receive a fair bit of political backing if they were to wobble.

To be honest seeing the speed of the progress that is going on I try to put it to the back of mind and just think about all the days I will be spending with the family around the pool.

Let's hope in a couple of years time we are sitting in the club house laughing about our concerns!

Dan

The good thing from PW's point of view is that at the moment and for the forseeable future they will still have a lot of steady income from the completion of off-plan properties sold 1-3 years ago before the 'credit crunch', so I think (hope) that will tide them through the current economic downturn until things pick up again. So in the short term I think there's nothing to worry about.

I think though that the commencement of future developments may well will be put on hold until sales pick up again, so it could take a couple of years longer for the Condado resort to be completed, which could in turn have a knock-on effect on the rentability of our properties. 

All in all though, I'm still very positive. I think it's extremely unlikely that PW will 'go under', but similarly I can't see the amount and pace of the development continuing at it's current rate unless there's an economic upturn soon. 

There's no guarantees in life (except of course death and tax) but I'm not overly concerned at the minute, and I still believe we've made a good, sound long term investment. 

Time will tell, but at the risk of sounding like Corpral Jones my advice is, 'don't panic'. :)

Dan / Mark.

I share the same concerns. Indications from the EC is that the UK will fall in recession during 2008 followed by Germany and Spain so no company will be exempt and the housing market will be hit more than most, as we are already seeing here in the UK.  The majority of properties at condado were sold  off plan 12 to 18 months ago before all the curent problems, now that these properties are completing Polaris World can collect on thier investment and this should secure them in the short term.  But as sales are dropping, unless there is an upturn in the market things do look bleak for the mid term.  On the brighter side, the shopping center units at Oasis were all being sold as private enterprises so hopefully these have been funded and will go ahead.  The golf courses are a money spinner for PW bringing in £ from membership and fees etc and I cannot see them not completing them.  Also credit suisse own around 40% of PW and I cannot see them wanting it to fail.  

From the start I have seen condado as a long term investment, after all the site is a 10 year development, so I'm trying to keep positive about it all. 

Looking forward to knocking back a few sun downers with you all at the club house remonising on our past concerns.   

Phil 

This message was last edited by ptan on 9/11/2008.

I am in agreement that ultimately everything will get built but am sure that Polaris will be currently reviewing their build plans and we can almost certainly see delays in the second phase golf courses. I'm a firm beliver that if you bought your property to enjoy over years to come ( we did) then you will have no worries, if you bought as a quick turn around money spinner then you may well have reason to have a few sleepless nights.

We also had concerns as we originally bought to rent  and then sell it off. After visiting the area last month and really enjoying ourselves and the fab weather we have had a complete turnaround and are going to use the apartment for ourselves as a week-end getaway once a month or so (Rog has a day a month off on flexi).  Also we are letting our two daughters and their boyfriends use it whenever they want.  So maybe ten or more years down the line when we feel ready we may think about selling.  I agree it is a long term thing and we are going to keep positive!
Tan and Rog (Jardin 1)

Hi everyone,

My concern is that PW have undertaken a massive project which is fine if the economic climate allows it. However, due to this current downturn, people are cautious and I think PW should stop and take a deep breath before just carrying on, they have to adjust to what is happening and then adjust again when things pick up...this is what "Joe public" is currently doing on the street. They seem to get close to finishing one part of the project and then move straight on with the next. I hope that they continue to finish each phase so it does actually end up complete ie: pathways, shopping areas, planting,etc....all the necessary finishing touches that makes a development stand out from the rest. At the end of the day this project has to be completed in a way that makes people look at it as a quality place and thus ensuring it's future for all concerned.

This will hopefully ensure that our investments are protected whilst at the same time we can all enjoy what we have bought into.

PW should, in my opinion, start to think about how they move forward with Condado. Yes we need golf courses, yes we need nice green areas and yes we need good facilities such as the Oasis and I don't think PW should delay any of this. What I think they should think about delaying is the amount of appartments they are putting up as currently there doesn't seem to be enough people at this time to buy. This will allow them to continue with the "needs" I have mentioned above to create this quality place and then, once things pick up, start reviewing the number of appartments that are needed.

Sorry to drag on but these are just my thoughts as I currently see them.

Phil

I am still 100 percent happy with my purchase and bought with a minimum 10 year outlook.  Polaris are probably one of the safest property development companies we could have gone with and have massive backing from Credit Suisse amongst other high profile financiers.  Of course I also realise that nothing is certain but I think we have all made the right choice in selecting such a large developer.

never mind the credit crunch etc....................



We have committed ourselves to Condado. We have decided to spend the rest of our life there.

 The apartments are small - could have got a bigger one on a golf course for less. But it is the vision of the project which sold it to us . 

Ist line golf - even if I can't afford to play! can watch others and think I'd do better than that!

Someone to keep my garden manicured (the golf course!).

Free bus access to all Polaris resorts.

Mountain views and the joys of Sierra Espuna to explore.

Beautiful beaches nearby (especially Bol Nuevo). 

Murcia city 15 minutes away.

Eventually one of the biggest and exotic shopping centres in Spain (Oasis).

Lots of other ex pats to while time away with at the bar!

New airport nearby to whisk our loved ones to us (not for us to go back!)

New Disneyworld complex nearby, Ryder Cup in 2018?     mmmmmmmmmm just woken up!



Might seem like a promo for Polaris World but so far they have delivered, but communication is not their strong point.

Just hope we see the full vision delivered - it will be good for us and the Spanish living in Murcia.

If any of you were regretting buying at Condado I hope the above reminders have convinced you that you did the right thing!



Barry & Sue

Penthouse block 10

Hi Phil,

Suggesting that Polaris cut the amount of apartments they should finish doesnt really say much for the people who have bought off plan 18 months ago in the Mirador phase, which hasnt been started as yet I believe !

Just my opinion

Bren.

HERE HERE BARRY AND SUE, WE ARE ALL SO LUCKY TO BE IN A WONDERFUL POSITION OF FULFILING OUR DREAM,LIFES TO SHORT ENJOY WHAT WILL BE WILL BE AND NONE OF US CAN CHANGE IT
JILL

Snorkey,

What have you started with this scary thread!!!!  However I am sure we all share your thoughts during these difficult economic times.  

Phil's point is very vaild too I think.  If you check other Polaris owners forums, one common complaint is the fact that it seems to take an age to get infrastructures completed - shops, bars, restaurants, clubhouses.  Generally there does not  seem to be any worries with the qualaity of the apartments - but completing the resorts is another matter.

My own view on Condado (and one of the main reasons I bought here) is the long term vision of the complex.   If PW are really serious about the other 2 courses & all the homes / hotel etc to support  them, then surely it has to make a first class job of the first course & clubhouse.  That will be it's biggest advertisment & sellinh attraction I think.  Finish Phase 1 to a high standard & the rest will follow I think.  

Without doubt we are in a recession, but despite what the media have you believe, there is still plenty of dosh out there.  People will find money for quality in their lives.  Yes, the exchange rate needs to pick-up but re-start the property market - but that will happen at some point - maybe not to previous levels.....but.....it will happen.

Stay positive chaps.......the glass needs to be half-full, not half empty.  No more scary thread titles Snorky....go to the naughty step for  30 days!!  Seriously though - its a good topic to share thoughts obviously

Regards

Nick

Bren (El Mirador)

I was referring to the second phase not yours. Nick's last post refers to what I was trying to get across. I personally see all our places as "phase 1" which is one side of the Oasis and it is this part that I think should be finished properly before they start charging into the rest of it.

Sorry for giving you the impression that El Mirador shouldn't go ahead..........................!

Phil

Hi all

I am in full agreement with Barney111 & Skell (Nick), if you are in for the long term I believe we have made a good investment.  The market is certainly in a lull at the moment, but will eventually bottom out and pick up again in time.  
I know this is no consolation to the folks who have bought property to make a quick profit.  I do sympathize with these people and would advise holding onto the property it if at all possible and wait for the trend to change, though I know in some cases this is be easier said than done.

I think you will all agree that this is a huge project which requires financing in stages.  PW are business people and it makes good business sense to complete at least one golf course, clubhouse oasis and other amenities to attract buyers for further phases.  I am still very confident all will be well given time, remember Rome wasn't built in a day.  

I know this can be frustrating, especially for some people who are living full time on the property now, but patience is a virtue.
Keep your heads up and keep a positive attitude.

I am also in full agreement with Phil (lytton) when he says the building of further apartments should be delayed.  Obviously the properties already sold off plan, such as mirador must go ahead, as these people also deserve to have there investment come to fruition but this developement is so huge I do wonder if PW can sustain forging ahead with further property builds at the present time.

M

Hi All,
While I agree with everyone's concerns about the current economic climate it was clear that Germany and Spain were ahead of us in heading for a credit crunch.
I also agree that no company is immune, however lets remember that in July, at the beginning of the credit crunch, 5 of the largest banks in Spain invested 241 Million Euros in PW for phase 2 of Mar Menor. 
I feel certain that they would not take such a risk with a company that is anything but extremely stable. 
Regarding Condado lets also remember that the local government and economy have a huge vested interest in the success of the development. 
Condado is PW's flagship site and as such I feel confident that we will have a fantastic resort and a great long term investment , all be it maybe not exactly as sold to us off plan.

Hi All,

(1)   Again I fully endorse the fact this is a long term (10year) investment plan, if investment's what you bought for.  During those 10 years watch it develop, grow and enjoy it with you families and friends.

(2)  The reason The development was brought forward was because of the credit crunch.  Rather than continuing to build all over the place, the best way to get the majority of the money in now is to complete what you have already sold.  Hence the reason all our completion dates were brought forward significantly.   Once the money is in move on to the next stage.  Good business sense to me.

(3)  As others have mentioned Credit Suisse but also CajaMurcia and Banco/CajaValencia  all have a very large stakeholding in PW.  Should (according to their executives) PW not make ANY sales in the next 4 years, they could still employ the 3000 construction workers they currently have on various sites for all that time.  By then we would probably be out of the credit crunch dont you think?

(4)  I agree not all companies can be bullet proof (look at XL airlines today).  Having been at the "Have I done the right thing" stage some months ago myself, I have looked at PW's business objectives, their backers, and the local government (Murcia).  Guess what?  I'm bloody chuffed and as confident as hell about my purchase.

(5)  For all of you sitting in houses you have owned and lived in for the last 10 years or longer.  Its probably (even in these economic times) worth a lot more than you paid for it originaly.  But when you bought it you thought of it as a family home...... not an investment.  Had you thought of it as an investment all those years ago you would more than likely have the same concerns you're having now.  For most of you thats totally unfounded!   Prices fluctuate and just now they are down, so if you were looking for quick profit its unlikely you made it.  But if you can afford to hang on to it.  Prices will always come back up again.  Again look at the house you've been sitting in for 10 years or more.

(6)  In response to only two things guaranteed in life "Death and taxes."  A very good Jewish friend of mine many years ago always said "Yes but remember taxes are negotiable."

I will gladly sit in the bar in the not to distant future, and say to anyone on this thread who in my opinion is unjustly worried.   "Told you so" and "That'll be a pint please."

Good comments Frank - glad to see another owner coming up with positive comments when others perhaps look for negativities in the current economic climate.

Obviously everyone needs to batten down the hatches at the moment and ride the storm out, but we will come out the other side into the land of Oz!


Barry & Sue

Hi All,

It's great to see so many positive comments from others.

After the summer we have had (or haven't had), I am relishing the prospect of spending as much time as possible in the sun.

The appeal of being able to holiday during school breaks without paying extortionate prices is huge.

Out again in October to stay in the apartment for the first time.......cannot wait!!!!

As for the credit crunch...............I'm off to LIDL for the weekly shop

cheers

Peter

I suspect threads like this are going to pop up from time to time until the current economic storm has passed and the world's property markets have picked up again.

But that's probably not such a bad thing because the majority of the responses on this particular thread have shown that most of us are remaining very positive, calm and paragmatic, which is reassuring to know.

It's perfectly understandable that some people are worried just now with all the media 'hype' going on, and if you're one of them I hope the optimism shown on this thread by your neighbours and fellow investors have helped to calm those nerves a little bit.

The market will pick up again, that's for sure, the only uncertainty just now is when that will be. Most 'experts' are predicting it'll be in about 18 months to 2 years which in the greater scheme of things isn't such a long time.

So in the meantime I suggest we all relax and enjoy our homes in the sun, life's too short and all that.

Cheers!

George.

I think the majority of people who contribute to the forum have bought on Condado for a long term investment and when it is completed it will be a fantastic resort.

We have been hearing rumours circulating about Polaris for about 15 months now and they are one of the few builders in Spain who are still there.   

Personally, I think we have to trust that Polaris know what they are doing and I am quite confident that they do.  If they were going to build houses that weren't selling, they would've started on La Loma by now.  

One thing is for sure, we intend to have some fantastic holidays in Spain in the future.  As George said, we should sit back and enjoy our homes in the sun and not worry what the future has instore.