stop building

hi, my name is noel and i two have bought on corvera in 2005, until now i have not really given this much thought, but then i have come across this forum, and after reading what you have all been writing thought feck!!! i think we have a problem.

in my opinion instead of us turning on the developer and they turning on us we need to work together? so what is the answer, we need to stop building off hire all the men and machines and put a big lock on the gate and forget about it until the economy picks up, at which point we all pick up our positions, just like all the builders in our own country have! because this project is not viable without all the facilities in place and this developer will not be constructing if nobody is investing!

i personally have no intention off paying a mortgage and all the other fees involved for the next 5,6,7 years waiting for this project to become viable, everything is against us, the economy, the euro which in turn will kill tourist market, this will not turn around in a couple of years it will take a long time in every aspect.

this is only my opinion though!!!!!!

love noel.

Welcome Noel is it?

WOW! didn't see that one coming but it is an opinion!

Hi Noel - on the whole I have got to say that I agree with your opinion and actually I would have to say that the only crumb of comfort that I can find in this whole situation is to say thanks goodness that we did not complete in 2008.  At least now, to all intents and purposes, I believe we still have the option of walking away from this development and cutting our losses (although there is still some debate as to whether this is viable).

However I do feel for those that have purchased on this development for lifestyle / retirement purposes and I assume there will many of those people that would disagree with you.  This together with the fact that the developer I assume would like to have the other 70% of our payments asap.  The experience of those on Roda illustrates the fact that they seem prepared to half finish developments.  Calidona themselves are in a strong financial position and it may be they will be able to ride the storm and therefore stand out in the local area and continue to sell units.   However the financial difficulties experienced by La Manga casts some doubt on this.  Furthermore they have a third project in waiting (Ballabona) which will be of interest to them in later years.

An interesting option to get the builders to shut up shop, but I fear they'll plough on and try and recover as much money as they can from the early phases. I purchased for lifestyle/retirement but will be unable to complete now. In 05 our villa cost the equivalent of £265k which was high for inland Murcia but the prospect of a superb development made it worth it. Now the cost to me will be £400k for a small 2 bed villa on what will most likely be a building site for 10 years !!! Even if I could get a mortgage it makes more sense to flush my deposit down the drain then go and find a fire sale bargain elsewhere.

Having spent a considerable time on the phone to a mortgage advisor in Spain yesterday, it is now abundantly clear that even if l wanted to go ahead with my purchase at Corvera I cannot raise the mortgage to pay the developer, charges and further fees.

The mortgage market in Spain now bears no resemblence to the market that existed in 2005, which is when l 'bought' my apartment.

l suspect that the only option l now have is to cut my losses and walk away, put the whole thing down to a bad, and expensive, experience.

Although the idea of the developer closing the site until the global economy is back on track might seem a solution to all of the problems, l doubt that it is even a consideration in their minds. Look at things from their perspective, they may end up with a large number of purchasers 'cutting their losses' and walking away, but that leaves them with an equally large number of units that are already 1/3rd paid for, these units can then be sold for the remaining 2/3rds of the original asking price, in the current climate these would be viewed as somewhat of a bargain by cash investors, the developer doesn't lose in the long term.

Steve

hi steve,

well as you have said getting a mortgage for all these investors will not be easy, and are these a bargain for cash investors at 2/3 of the price on a ghost town? i dont think so, if you do then surely you may aswell proceed with yours because your deposit is gone and you only have the 2/3 to pay.

in this market i would say they are barely worth 65% of our purchase price! and even to cash buyers because there are some great established repos out there as there is here in england.

as ever the optimist/realist.

Hello everyone, Happy New Year!

I agree, that a good option would be if the builder and we all agree to mothball the project for another year. Afterall, Calidona had initially promised us that they would be finishing Phase 1 by May or December 2007! As many of us are meeting in Birmingham on Jan 10th (meeting organised by Lisa), we should also discuss this option with the lawyer who is also attending this meeting.

Hopefully, we will find a way out of this.

I just can't see a situation where the developer would be prepared to stop their business for at least a year when they have contractual agreements with people for the majority of housing units on the development.  As I've mentioned on many occasions (over many months) many people will be considering the option of cutting their losses and walking away as Steve has mentioned.  My biggest fear is that Calidona will be well aware of this (they are aware of this forum) and will be preparing themselves for the chase.  Above all else we need to ensoure that liability does stop at the deposit monies lost so far, without this there is less bargaining power (and more sleepless nights) on our behalf.

The worst case scenario for us all would be to complete on the purchase without the facitilies that were promised and with no deadline.  This point was raised by Lisa and many others on a previous thread.  Again I'm not sure how we can legally enforce Calidona to make such a commitment and in the present economic climate it is probably unrealisitc to expect this (although Calidona is relatively buoyant).  Reassurances by Calidona have been made on this area already but again if you look at the Roda forum.......

I wonder if the way forward would be to see a readjustment of the final purchase price that reflects the present economic climate.  This would allow more individuals to complete and get mortgages.  Furthermore it is my belief that under Spanish law, some form of deadline should have been written into the original contract - due to the late completion we are now suffering from plummeting property prices, a worsening exchange rate and a credit market which is less willing to lend.  We have already commited 30% of the original purchase price and many of us would already be in negative equity if we completed today. 

Even better might be a renegotiation of the contract with final payment being made on the completion of all of the promised faciltities.

Over the past few months I have seen the number of Corvera resales being marketed increase and their prices nosedive.  At present nobody is interested in purchasing on this development. 

Calidona surely have two strategies - either to aggressively seek completion or to offer generous incentives.  I hope that it is the latter.

I'm sorry Noely but I couldn't disagree more with you. If you are not happy then walk away if you like and take the hit, but do not try and set up some program to shut down the development for the rest of us who, albeit now with a lot of difficulty, wish to go ahead. I would do whatever I possibly can to stop that.

In 5-7 years in the future, or whatever your timeframe is to have the economy back up and running again, I'd like to think I'll be owning a property that is 4-6 years built, and also 4-6 years ahead of the other new developments that might have to shut up shop now, giving me a distinct advantage over the nearby developments that are not as good as Corvera and had to wait to finish.

Folks,

Happy new year. I was at Corvera over the xmas/new year period. Staying at La manga Hyatt, was a ghost town - may be sterling /euro crunch !!

Whilst at Corvera, I was assured that seeding of the golf course shall start this month, main entrance nearly complete (I could see), club house to follow shortly and all other sports activities facilities are already on their way. Lots of activity inside and outside the resort. The last thing to be incorporated is the hotel !!!!

Went and looked at the new international airport site - it's on it's way. Looked at other sites (deals for simillar properties) and established very rapidly that I can get something simillar on other resorts but the money I shall save will be equal to the money I have paid Calidona (deposits etc.). BUT I shall not get an international airpot 10 minutes away and I certainly will not get the European PGA winter HQ moving there. This place will be buzzing in winter (PGA winter HQ) and perhaps will bring in some winter rental income (whilst other resorts will not have the same facility).

The only issue I have is that Calidona are pushing hard to have a swiming pool (apx 25K) built before we we complete as there will be problems with neighbours and obtaining licences after it's all completed and people have moved in (PHASE 1). And not to mention the A/C (which is not a great deal of problem afterwards as it's only a unit installation). But prices quoted by Calidona are lot higher, got me by my ....... - I think.

Also visited RODA, what a concrete jungle (pardon me Roda owners, it's only my opinion). The club house is superb, food and service was equally brilliant. Building work is still going on and the course looked preey good too (judging from the greens).

Kind regards to all.

Ravi.

Hi Frank -I don't think that Noely is on a mission to stop the completion of Corvera but actually raising a point for discussion and perhaps a potential solution meaning that more people are able to complete in the long-term.  Surely it will be the number of people who are unwilling and unable to complete in the present circumstances that will jeopardise this resort rather than Noely's suggestion.

Hi Raviss - I understand that the seeding of the golf course could not take place until the inner island on phase one was mainly completed and I guess this should roughly coincide with the time that you were given.  So overall it will take at least a year for the course to be playable let alone matured - was anyone made aware of this when they were actually putting their deposits down 3+ years ago?  Moreover were you actually given a definite time frame for the other facilities?  Please do not interpret this as me having a go at you, any update is really appreciated.  However surely we should expect Calidona to actually update us on all of this?  (They took the trouble to send a Christmas Wishes e-mail) - I just think that we deserve better and some formal reassurances.

In addition I would actually outweigh the significance of the hotel and De Vere association over the PGA one.  In theory I believe that all of the resorts in this area should be experiencing their busiest golfing times at this time of year (although I am prepared to be corrected) and a 5* hotel would be a big plus point.

I have a CANELA on this inner island and perhaps that's the reason for this information. It's nearly complete and I believe that seeding will take place at the end of Jan!!

As far you having a go, please --------- we are on the same side and flow of information is vital. I provided the info that I was given and also what I saw. I believe that you are right in saying that golf course will probably not be ready to play until spring next year (my opinion) but I can wait, since everything has been delayed. Time frame on other facilities - it's spain - 3 months here or there is not a big issue for these guys but they do need to complete and take our money. I am in no rush - more time we get , the better - sterling /euro will improve as europe is being hit (or very shortly) with same problem as us.

I was also advised that there will be shorter golf memberships (10 yrs of so) available instead of 25 years (Roda owners were offered).

Regards.

Ravi S

Hi all - Happy New Year. With reference to Mr Unhappy's suggestion about renegotiating prices with Calidona. We have written a letter to be forwarded to chairman inferring that they should consider this. Noted within letter that other builders are reducing their prices and suggested that rather than being left with numerous properties to resell (due to failed completions) why don't Calidona pass on a discount to us. So far no reply!

Such a suggestion could be a win win situation and prevent Corvera becoming a ghost town of uncompleted properties being returned to the market - albeit it at discounted prices. I think if people had confidence in just breaking even they would be more likely  to proceed rather than walk away from the significant sums of money which we deposited some 3 years ago.

At this moment in time unless there are some offers on the table we will be walking away from what I believe will be a fantastic development in the future. However I feel that for the forseable future committing to the development would be a continued financial loss. It will be years before the properties even regain their value.

Anyone who proceeds to buy in this ecomomic climate has to be crazy

You might as well go to the local tip and throw away 50K

Get real and dont let your heart rule your head (It is ludicrous to even think about completing on a property which will be worth 30-50% lower than you are paying)

You can buy a 3 bed 3 bath villa with own pool for 150000 Euro`s now and dropping a further 30%

Think about it guys or you will regret it for the rest of your lives 

I for one would still sooner pay top-dollar for a top-drawer property than buy a discounted pile of s**te that some are now trying to off-load. As long as we get the promised developement we will still end up on top in the long term 10-15 years from now.

A top drawer property on a half empty half finished developement

I have a wealth of experience in this field Steve and I am sorry to say mate you are dreaming

Hi Frank,

        not trying to start anything its only my opinion which even you in your profession must agree i am entitled to!

Now frank here is a bit more of my opinion, you your goodself are fortunate enough to live in that great city of dublin which means you are in the eurozone, so the fact that the pound has collapsed against the euro is of no consequence to your goodself, but imagine to your horror that suddenly the property you bought 3 years ago has increased in price by 25/30% feck!!!! not only that so have your mortgage payments every month for the next god knows how many years until this development becomes viable?

I would guess that the majority of buyers on this development are based in the uk, so therefore our backing of this development will be of great importance to the success or failure of this development and to your investment frank, if we do not agree anything with the developers and walk away trust me frank when i tell you there will not be many from the uk investing in spain for the forseeable future, but on the plus side there will be no queues on the golf course so you can play as much golf as you desire as there will not be much else to do.

                                       slaunche!

Hi All,

Is walking away an option where we loose what we have invested so far without being pursued for the balance? If this is the case I think I will cut my losses, can anyone confirm the legal position of taking the hit on our deposit??

Cheers

Gina

Hi Wangy.

I may be dreaming but without dreams there is only existence and I don't want to merely exist on this planet. Don't forget I'm lucky enough (?) to be on phase 3 which will probably give me two years grace on the majority.

Hi Steve and Jane you are fortunate to be purchasing on phase 3.  The prospect of completing in this present climate is sickening.  Any chance of a swap?