Use of Pools

With regard to the use of pools i would like to start a debate in order to gather owners opinions for the next committee meeting as discussed with Azim, vice president Pm2. It is mainly Pm2 i am concerned about as i am in Pm2 but it will affect the other Pm's also.

At the moment we have the use of the pools from June-August as this is when we have life guards as per contract. It was mentioned in an earlier post that it may be possible to use the pools when the lifeguards are not present but at the users own risk. I am assuming the filters and cleaning of the pools would have to be done continuously so in effect the pool is clean and treated but unavailable.

Peter Lund, president of Pm2 is currently getting clarification on the use of pool with no life guard and will post the results forthwith.

I feel we should be able to use the pools over a longer period and dont see why we should pay extra for it. I know of many communities that do not provide life guard cover for pools that are bigger than ours. My son has just returned from his friends Apt in La Reserva De Marbella and they have a much bigger pools than us and not a life guard in sight! 

It would be good to get owners opinions on this as they may shut the pools at the end of August.

Ian

I can see all points of view regarding pools and don't have strong views either way. We are in PM1, so lifeguard issue does not really affect us. Having been at the April meeting on site, organised by Brutus, I heard all the arguments to have all pools open longer, and the result was that Ammex organised that. However, having been out there a few weeks ago and stayed in PM2, I felt it was a big waste of money having lifeguards there and hardly any swimmers. Over four days, we only saw one other couple in the pool, although my husband and children went in it every day we were there (mainly the baby pool!) In future years, when the site is more established and the occupancy rates are much higher, I can see that longer opening would be a good idea, but at the moment I think the money is better spent elsewhere. Apart from anything else, the water is really, really cold, so I question whether April / May / September swimming is really going to be on everyone's agenda.

However, several suggestions have been put forward which I think are good ones:

1.  To have fewer pools open outside of peak times, perhaps on a rotational basis. If at least one / two pools were open then people could walk to where the open one is. Not that far, and does it really matter which pool you swim in? We walked from PM4 to PM1 pool a few times in April. The key issue would be to make sure that it was really obvious which pool was open.

2. Have some or all of the pools made smaller via a central island or something so lifeguards are not required. The cost of this, I think equates to approx one long season of lifeguard duty. So get the timing right (i.e. do it around March time) and you recoup the money in the first year and in 2nd and subsequent years you have spare money as it's not being spent on lifeguards. This seems the most sensible suggestion of all to me and makes the most financial sense. Doesn't this sort out all the issues and save loads of money in the long run? (Apart from the Olympic swimmers not being able to swim in straight lines, of course)

3. As the water is so cold, I think heating should be considered (solar, of course). Perhaps paid for in year two out of the money saved by not needing lifeguards! I think summer pool covers with that giant bubble wrap stuff would help with the heating issue, actually, keeps the heat in at night and the sun helps to warm it by day.

As for swimming and breaking the rules, I feel this is a no go. It's not just about the personal safety of the individual breaking the rules, its also about the fact that the community (as a legal entity) and presumably the President, can be fined for letting it happen and sued if anything goes wrong. Now personally, I do not want my community fees wasted on fines and legal costs. There is also an insurance issue, in that the PL insurance probably does not apply if the individuals have broken the rules. WHAT IF as owners we made it acceptable to break the rules and a family on holiday renting an apartment did the same and a child died? What if an older person went swimming alone and had a heart attack in the water? It happens! As a community, we just can't go there, in my view, it's irresponsible. The adverse publicity wouldn't do any of us any good either.

I think the pool issues need to be looked at in the context of medium to long term, not just the initial excitement of having an apartment in the sun with a nearby pool and finally being able to use it!

(Oops, didn't mean to get that carried away)

i am not sure why some resorts have lifeguards vand some do not.

is it size of pool, or number of residents it serves, or that it is not a private gated community, clarification would be appreciated.

i agree that over the years to come paying for lifeguards would be too expensive and i feel that the pools need to be open from april to october, albeit with colder water, but i am not sure whether reducing their size is the answer because hopefully the area will be busy with owners and holidaymakers and i think we would rue the fact we made them smaller.

noddy

thanks

if they overstated the size of pools like the apartments and the actual size is less, who knows there might not be a problem!

noddy

Just to make a comment on pools.

When we were there last there were quite a few people round the PM2 pool outside block 13, in fact one day not enough sun beds. We do need the pools open for longer than August - I had thought it was at least October. We've been to Spain before during October half term and swum in unheated pools but it woudl be good to think longer term about heating. Re size of the pools - I do think a lifeguard is unnecessary all the time. I wouldn't swim unless there were others around, surely we could be adult about it. If we find ourselves considering reducing the size then if there is a choice please not the block 13 pool area. Our daughter when she is there needs to swim train  as she is a competitive swimmer and the large pool is perfect. They are usually too small for her to train and we have to go searching for a pool somewhere. Its one of big plus points for us of Casares.

Erica

We have just come back from a wonderful stay at our apt on Pm2 and we had a great time and the water in the pools was at a lovely temperature and was most enjoyable. The whole place is coming together now and the improvements are there to be seen.

However, we were suprised to see the pool opening times professionally printed on a board in the pool area as open from "15th June - 15th September" as this indicates Ammex had no intention of altering the pool opening times even though many owners had specifically requested this prior to the AGM on the 15th June 2007. Many people i spoke to around the pool areas were really happy with their purchase and very content with the development even taking into consideration the obvious problems and could see the potential but were very annoyed about the dates of pool open times as they also assumed this was to be changed at the AGM.

These are our pools and we should be able to use them as we please, when we please, that is the whole point of having an apt at our disposal.

The other point is the pool areas are the only area in which to sunbathe unless you have a lower or upper penthouse. There are no other areas to lie down and chill out as the gardens are not yet in a suitable state particularly in Pm2, so where do you sunbathe. I believe the sunbeds will be locked up when there is no lifeguard about!  I have plans to visit in sept & oct and also have bookings around those periods. What do i tell these clients i have spent time and effort and advertising expense to get there in the first place, sorry but you cant use the pools!

We really need to resolve this matter sooner rather than later and as such i will ask the president if he could arrange to meet with Ammex to get something done.

Ian

Totally agree with your post. Many people will be going tin September and through to October half term and owners as well as renters will expect the pools to be open. I personally raised the point re sunbathing areas at the AGM and I saw this was being considered as part of the issues being addressed by the Board. I'm just starting to get rentals now and the pools and the pool area are an integral part of a holiday experience for owners and renters alike.

We are out end of next week and can't wait to enjoy the apartment again without having to do too many jobs! Its great to hear others enjoying the place. Aside from all the things that need resolving it really is a superb location.

Erica

I posted the following on the Owners Website, but as very few are using that site and the post was relevant to the 'Use of Pools' issue I am copying it here to add to the discussion.  The post below was originally written in response to the Update provided by the PM2 committeee;

To All Board Members

Thanks for this report.  Please keep up the good worrk.

Several of the issues concern the swimming pools or areas immediately
around the swimming pools and there is the major issue regarding the
closure of the pool serving blocks 14 to 20.

With regard to point 13 (reducing the size of the pools); how much
would they need to be reduced by so that a Lifeguard is not needed?
The the obvious questions are how much would this cost and at what
stage might this start to generate a return on the investment by
saving 2,200 Euros per month and by having the pool available for more
months or the year?

Regarding point 15 (children's play area) I am very much in favour of
this.

Point 16 (sunbathing area outside pool enclosure) Again, I am very
much in favour of this.  What about a communal barbecue area
incorporated (subject to H&S requirements)?

Can points 13, 15, 16 be linked to point 2 and a costing be provided
for consideration for the whole of this pool (servicing blocks 14 to
20) to be redeveloped to a) correct the major structural faults
identified (IL must pay this part) b) reduce the size of the pool c)
develop children's play area and d) communal sunbathing area adjacent
to the pool.

It seems sensible to consider all these things as one project, but
funding and management may become complex as we need IL to pay for the
rectification of the faults whilst the 'new' ideas would come from the
community budget.

Thanks again for all the work.

Regarding pool sizes.The legal size in Spain for a pool without a lifeguard is under 200 square the pools in CSD are approx 240 square metre's it is the law that states we need lifeguards and to open pools longer wil cost extra.This is something that we have to live with I like many others did not know this when buying my property along with many other things that I am learning along the way at extra cost.

There was a case recently in Spain where a bar owner was holding a birthday party and a 6 year old was drowned the owner received a large fine and jail for no lifeguard present.

May I suggest the money saved from not paying a life guard on the closed pool on Pm2 be used to keep open the pool in front of 11/11a, also in Pm2 for a longer period than the end of August as a compromise until something more permanant can be arranged.

This will give a sunbathing area as well as use of pool for many people who are looking to maximise the use of their apt now they have finally completed. It will also reduce the chance of cancellation of bookings they may have taken for Sept/Oct.

Just in case you're wondering, the pool in front of 11/11a is not in front of my block, the pool nearest to me is the closed pool servicing blocks 14-20. I suggest keeping this pool open as it is central to Pm2.

Ian

We were staying in block 17 overlooking this pool over the last week, and I was very concerned to see two teenagers (14-ish)and a young child (6-ish) climb over the gate and into this pool and swim in it. As it was Sunday afternoon, there was no-one I could think of to call at the time, although afterwards did think I could have gone to the security guard. At the time I decided that keeping an eye on them until they left was the best option available. They weren't British, I think they were Spanish, as I saw them around about a few times, not sure where the parents were, never saw them. Aside from the fact that this pool has been deemed unsafe, I don't know whether the water is being treated correctly, which if swallowed could add another issue, but it really highlighted how easily an accident could happen. It's one thing if adults do it, but quite different for children to do it.

Is it the kind of pool which could be emptied to prevent this? I know some pool types have to have water in at all times, but it may be a consideration in the short term.

Perhaps also need a procedure to let owners / guests know who to contact if this happens and provide 'phone numbers?

shouldnt there be signs up saying the pools and gardens are private and for residents use only. alot ot the pools if not all are readily accessible to anybody and we must have some deterrent against anybody wanting to use our pools. would the communities be held responsible if an accident happened, and we hadnt taken all"reasonable precautions"

noddy

We have reported this incident to Ammex and requested clarification that the swimming pool closure and liability disclaimer notices are being displayed in both English and Spanish. We have also asked  whether there are any other precautions the community can take to avoid this happening again, i.e. empty the water from the pool ? place building tape and/or gating around the area etc..

I understand that onsite owners may not be comfortable with addressing these types of issues themselves; therefore we are also speaking to Ammex concerning appropriate callout procedures.

We will post an update once available

Ammex has confirmed that the swimming pool closure and liability disclaimer notices are being displayed in both English and Spanish. As far as precautions, building tape has been place on the enclosure gates in an attempt to prevent entry and a 'Swimming pool CLOSED' sign is being displayed.

Ammex have confirmed that emptying the water from the pool is not an option as this would cause damage

I understand that onsite owners may not be comfortable with addressing these types of issues themselves; therefore contact should be made with the onsite porters.

Swimming pool closure UPDATE: Interlaken so far have failed to respond to our request for written clarification on their proposed rectification works, however as you will be aware, most companies close for August. We have asked Ammex to arrange an onsite meeting with Interlaken, during our stay in September to discuss the ongoing communal problems.

Please also be advised that the future PM2 swimming pool opening dates have been published on the google PM2 group portal (please send me a pm if you require portal details) and will be available on the Ammex website in the next couple of days.

Br

Peter Lund PM2 President