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Our solicitor has been on the phone again this morning for more money with reference to us trying to get our deposit back on an off-plan property.
Initially, we paid him a sum of money which we were told was the total amount that we would be asked for.
Then he asked for another 1k for the Procadora which he had omitted to mention to us.
Then he wanted a further 1k but said it would be the last time he would ask for more money.
We won the case in the court but the developers appealed.
So the solicitor wanted another 2k for the appeal. He promised categorically it was the last time we would be asked for money, and that was with a witness.
Now, 5 months later, he has rung for another 1k saying that the good news is that we are on the list of the creditors.
But the developers have been in liquidation for ages so we don't know what the point of going to appeal is (which hasn't been heard yet).
We feel we are just over a barrel. And to make matters worse, the bank account he wants us to pay this money into is in his wife's name - not the company name, or even his. In Britain this would be highly irregular which we have pointed out to him, but he says it is because his wife's bank is handy for us. If we prefer, we can pay it in cash in his office or to his bank which is nowhere near us.
Anyway, that is one issue but want I really want to ask is - does this mean we will definitely get a proportion of our deposit back, now we are on the list of creditors?
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You should be more worried about the morals of your so called solicitor and should have changed your solicitor as soon as they started asking for more money, there is no way you should be paying this amount send Maria a message with your concerns she is very good and will give you sound advice give the RAT nowt else. You should have been on thei list of creditors from day one
This message was last edited by auntielinda on 27/05/2010.
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Great Auntie Linda
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as far as I know, asking you to put the money in his wifes account is very odd and starts alarm bells ringing. Client monies should be credited to an business account (in the name of the law practice normally) and never into a personal account, let alone a personal account of someone not even part of the business!
Whats his justification not having a business bank account and are there any other parnters in the law firm that you could speak with?
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If you can walk away from your deposit, you might be better off just writing the whole thing off. Your solicitor should not be asking you for cash or deposits into his wife's account! It could take years to get anything back, and in the meantime you will have paid your solicitor more than your deposit.
Leave him and find another solicitor.
www.golfapartment.co.uk
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Many thanks for your replies Eva2008 and auntielinda. Much appreciated.
I believe he does have a business account - well, I hope so!
The problem is that so far, we have not had the funds in our own account to make a transfer into another of his accounts, whichever that may be. To date, we have had to withdraw from a cashpoint here in Spain using our British based credit card and UK bank cards.
We have paid him in cash in his office before, and whilst we get a receipt with a number on, it is just one he types up. It is not from a numbered pad, where you would have to explain why there were any missing or spoiled. So given the choice we have paid into his wife's account, so at least there is a record of it.
I think 'next time' we will have to pay the cash into our Spanish bank and then transfer to his account. But I don't think I will still really know if it is his company account or his personal one.
And all the while, the solicitor insists we will get all this money back 'when we win the case.'
But of course we aren't going to win, because the developers don't have any money, they are in liquidation.
And regarding us being on the ist of creditors, I suppose their assests will just be divided up. But there there will probably be so many people on that list, that we will just receive a very small amount - possibly less than we have paid the solicitor.
Does anyone have any experience of being on the list of creditors?
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Oh, I am already two years into this Summer! Virtually to the day.
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In general the bigger companies and suppliers are at the top of a creditors list when a company goes into liquidation. In the case of developers, individuals owed deposits are left trailing at the end. It can also take many years to see anything if you are lucky to see any monies at all. Recently when Polaris World were in difficulties and were in negotiation with the Banks many people who had paid them deposits swopped to keyready properties on other resorts rather than sit it out and see what would happen if they went bust.
No doubt if you asked for an itemised account your Solicitor could come up with one covering all the requirements your fees have met. But the longer the action continues the more money he will need because each return to court, each new set of paperwork, lodging of papers at court, each discussion he has with you and each call he makes on your behalf has to be paid for.
You dont say how much of a deposit you are owed- if its the initial deposit of a few grand I know what I'd be doing now. Is very unfair and its not easy to say if the Solicitor is honourable and working hard or just fleecing you. On balance only you can decide if its better to pay up and hold on or walk away and draw a line under the whole situation.
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Tony.
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http://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/3569/legal-tip-277-low-cost-action-against-banks-manifesto-by-costaluzlawyers.aspx
Legal tip 277. Low cost action against Banks. Manifesto by Costaluzlawyers
22 May 2010 @ 08:46
Because we see this is what is needed in the most of the cases were people bought off plan and did not receive a Bank Guarantee,
Because claimers are frustrated and tired of waiting for years for a Court decision to be honoured and this do not happen due to the financial status of developers,
Because it is a great tool to try to put some correction to the financial system in off plan purchases for the protection of buyers so we can be sure these current problems will not happen again in our country,
Because we need to show to foreigners that Spain has a strong and coherent legal system,
Because we can offer low cost action to groups of people under the rules of our professional ethical code,
Because Banks have been the necessary element without which the current off-plan disaster in Spain would have never happened,
Because Law 57/68 makes them clearly liable for the lack of Bank Guarantees,
Because we have been studying this action for months with the help of a first class Law Professor who is available to answer questions in Court regarding the report he produced for us,
Because it is necessary, mainly because you need it
We are offering to all the EOS members the possibility of joining existing actions against Banks under provision 1.2 of Law 57/68 at a much reduced cost.
Main ground of Law 57/68 is the protection of money advanced by individuals before construction work begins or during it, in many cases the savings of a lifetime.
The actual preamble or “exposición de motivos” of the said Law establishes that all the "abuses in this type of businesses have made as necessary the establishment of general preventive rules which will guarantee both the real and effective application of money advanced by purchasers and prospective customers to the building of the house and to the refund in the event that the building does not take effect".
The most preventive, general, inalienable obligation that this Law established was for banks or savings banks, where money was paid to by buyers, to secure the establishment of Bank Guarantees or Insurance UNDER THEIR LIABILITY Banks were therefore here established as guardians of legality.
Please contact us here: web@costaluzlawyers.es if you want further information about this.
Have a great week,
Maria L. de Castro
o
Tarifa Harbour by Luis López- Cortijo
_______________________
Maria L. de Castro, JD, MA
Lawyer
Director www.costaluzlawyers.es
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Many thanks TheQuietMan.
We have no choice but to press on, becauseof the sum of money involved.
People like us are so vulnerable though and I would urge anyone in the same sort of position to realize that the large figure that the solicitor tells you at the start, is in fact just the beginning! Trouble is, if we were told at the outset of all potential further costs, it would put the client off and they would just go to a solicitor who didn't declare that extra monies would be needed it it went to appeal etc. A lesson to be learned, which is one of the points of the forum!
But as you say, each new letter and phonecalll has to be paid for and it ain't cheap. And yes, when we have complained to him about extra monies being requested, he has gone through lists and so on with a reasonable element of patience.
So it doesn't sound as if the money is divided up equally. Looks like we might be into another year of waiting.
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Coleen, this may be water under the bridge now, but when making any future payments to a solicitor, you can make the payment via a CHAPS transfer from your main account directly to his business account, regardless of what bank he is using. CHAPS payments can be made directly from your bank (UK or Spanish) to any bank using the IBAN payments system, which almost literally every EU bank or building society uses.
It costs a bit more (around £25 fromthe UK, about the same in Spain, as destination doesn't matter), but you know where it's going, it'll get there within 24 hours, and you have a solid record of it with YOUR bank as well as his. Remeber to keep the paperwork.
You will need you solictors business account details, i.e. account name, number, branch name and number etc. as well as the IBAN number. Hope this is of use.
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Colleen
You seem to have received some good advice here. From what you have told us on your last post you are probably seeking to recover your 40% deposit (or there-abouts) in which case it would make sense to continue the action to the appeal proceedure.
If the developer is now bankrupt you are unlikely to get much or anything as advised by the Quietman. The bank will no doubt be a secured creditor and come way before you. Have your solicitor check the status of the developer - if it is the case that there is little chance of getting paid there is little point in contunuiing the action, unless you have a bank guarantee for your deposit. In Spain this is mandatory and your solicitor should have ensured that you were so protected. A bank guarantee in Spain doesn't mean that you will automatically get paid out however because freuqently the bank will contest payment - you will probably have to pursue the bank through further court action although they are known to agree out of court settlements for a financial consideration (ie dropping legal costs, interest due on debt etc).
If I were you I would do as auntie linda suggested and contact Maria who posted below. I have come accross many messages on forums from her over the last 2 years and she seems to be a lawyer of high moral standing who cares deeply about justice. You can't tar all lawyers with the same brush. Depending on what she says you could dismiss your existing lawyer. However you are so far down the road it might now be worth sticking with the same one until at least after the appeal. Your existing lawyer does seem to have been very sloppy with his fee quotation and it does seem most unsatisfactory that he is using his wife's account for banking his fees, but I personally don't blame him for requesting further fees for an appeal - this would be in order in the UK after all.
Good luck.
Steve
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I agree. I will write a letter this weekend. There is little point complaining and doing nothing. Pressure from Europe may or may not work but it is the only vehicle we have and we should all co ordinate our efforts in order to facilitate change for the common good.
Steve
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Hi
Send all the info you have to Marta Andreasen MEP, I cannot post her email address on here, as I havnt made sufficient posts yet, just look it up. She is trying to compile as much information as possible about the whole property scandel situation in Spain, to try and force the Spanish government to sort out the corruption involved by so many during the entire proccess regarding any aspect of the property buisness in Spain! From developers to solicitors, notories, sales, builders, local councils, banks, etc etc etc!!
Dont delay its worth the effort, she is a marvelous women willing to back people like us, and fight our cause.
defo worth a try the more examples and proof she has to put forward to the government the better the case will be be!! We all need to band together in mass!!
Kind regards Carol
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The builder Idearco failed to complete!!
he received his deposited money back by deception from the notory!! that money should have been left at the notory to pay for the completion of the build and any debts found on the properties, till he prooved the build was complete and debt free and had all certificates. Our build isnt complete and without certificates.
He stole €900 euros cash paid by all purchasers for builders utilities and individual connection, Atlas knew he had done this to other previous property purchasers yet advised us all to pay the builder this sum, they also knew about the builder not finnishing his other builds yet advised us along with the solicitor they recomended to complete and pay the final monies etc.
The utility companies knew the builder was leaving debts for supplies on previouse properties, yet still provided water and electric to him, as they know they just need to threaten the purchasers to pay the builders debt or be cut off!
The builder has called no money but still trades under an umbrella company even stole the water pump to fit in another of his builds to con yet more people, as he still owns property in our block, but doesnt pay communal fees etc, we believe that he is wasting electric and water in his appartments as the bills are enormous for the few people resident there ,most people only use their appartments for 1 or 2 weeks a year. so only a couple of permanent residents.
The town hall were not very co-operative for a long time, we have had to pay for the road to be done despite being informed before our purchase that the builder had left money with the town hall to do any work he didnt finish. the road is still not finnished as we have to wait for the drains to be inspected before it can be completed .
The bank took some properties from the builder to sort out his debt to them, but that doesnt help us as they dont pay communal fees we have to take them to court also. I thought when a build had a bank guarantee we had no worries the bank would complete what the builder didnt finnish, yet that isnt happening we are having to fork out to finnish the build.
just an example of our situation , so the more people send their stories to Marta Andreasen for her to use the better!!
Carol
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Her email address is on another post on here called 'Spanish property Scandal'
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email to laloux@gmail.com who is the parliamentary assistant to Marta Andreasen.
also fill in your details via Keith's campaign www.bankguaranteesinspain.com as this campaign is highlighting all instances of abuse.
Maria has also identified the following so it might be worthwhile checking with your lawyer if you qualify for compensation via this route (note the time constraints however):
There are procedures in place for making Courts accountable of damages arised from undue delays.
In order to guarantee the right of citizens to trial without undue delays (as per provision 24.2 of the Spanish Constitution), the system has provided two mechanisms.
Provision 24.2 of the Spanish Constitution says that all persons have a right to a public trial without undue delays and with all the guarantees
There are two main tools available to the citizens who suffer undue delays in trials:
1) Complaints within the judicial procedure and use of the procedure itself for promoting and speeding it.
2) Money Compensation for any damage that, in the estate of the claimer, has caused the undue delay.
The determination of compensation (and its quantum) is made through a special administrative procedure that is processed and solved by the Ministry of Justice.
The most important aspect is to prove an actual damage which can be valued in economic terms and be determined.
The right to claim this sort of compensation prescribes within a year after the production of the delay or since this delay expressed its harmful effects.
Note:There is an ongoing discussion within the thread titled “Proffessional liabilities of conveyancers" on this subject of compensation, if you are interested.
This message was last edited by ads on 01/11/2010. This message was last edited by ads on 01/11/2010.
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Thanks for this info I will pass it onto our new president Sharon, RE matthieu laloux, myself and some others from vegamar 2 have been in contact with him also, through Marta!
Sharon is trying to get the mess sorted out for us and has visited the town hall, she has a very positive attitude and our community are sure she will get things moveing in the right direction asap, and not before time.
We are all fed up with broken promises, and excuses.
The Spanish government took their cut, in taxes from the builders, etc and everyone involved in the process, they should now coff up and sort out the problems, and put the unscrupulous money grabbing bad guys in the clink, instead of allowing them loopholes to get away with blue murder, by taking advice from expensive lawyers etc which us poor folk cannot afford.
I would send an email to the king of Spain if I could find his email address jejejeje and I have looked for it.
saludos Carol
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