Community charges..... non-payers....direct action?

Sorry to crawl out of the woodwork again - but on the subject of administrators, can anyone tell me who regulates the administrative companies that work for communities?

Not wholly sure yet, but there may be a whiff of a suggestion that all is not kosher with our community administrator, unfortunately they are one of the biggest on the mar menor, and seem to be extremely powerful.

just wondering if there is a governing body to whom complaints (if there are any) should be addressed.

Hi and thanks to everyone for pitching in with advice.  Some of your stories don't make happy reading as we are only just coming to the end of 2 years as a community, and it seems this could go on for a very long time. 

 If the community has no money - how does the administrator get paid?  don't tell me - they take their cut first ?

This looks like being a long and fraught summer period - most of the community rent their apartments fully in the summer months - its going to be fun telling customers that the green pool is a decorative feature!! and the fact that the lift doesn't work is a health measure.

que sera, sera!

von

I hope the system of keys works out for that community. A large (500+ units) complex near me (I used to own a property there) put up, at great expense, fences and turnstiles around the pools a couple of years ago, and issued electronic cards to operate the turnstiles, that could be activated and de-activated by a central computer. Apart from a few fence jumpers, and people passing their cards through the fence to their mates, it seemed to work reasonably well for the first summer. Now however it seems competely broken down, and the gates are permanently open. A lot of money wasted, it would seem, in a community where some owner's debts are already into 5 figures! (I no longer own there, thank goodness!)

Some communities work well, but most have their problems. My experience has taught me that you are probably best off buying in a building with as few communal facilities as possible to maintain. Gardens and pools are very nice, but can be a nightmare to control, and there's nothing worse than an empty derelict pool and unkempt gardens.

We are approaching the end of our community's financial year (and this president's term?), and I'm pleased to report that we have NO debts or unpaid fees. However, we will probably only have about 2 euros left in the bank by the end of March, and of course nobody will like hearing that next year's fees will have to go up - again. We're already paying about 100 euros a month, so as Bobaol says, it's incredible that some people won't even pay much smaller amounts, especially as it's in their own best interest to maintain and protect their investment.

Thanks bobaol

We are quiet close to Quesada and as a small community only 63 properties in total, many of us feel this would work for us, at the end of the day a new lock and 63 keys would probably amount to no more than 100 euros per year and perhaps this may encourage our owners especially those who rent on a regular basis to pay up front as if we don't do something it will be very frustrating to be sitting next to someone at the poolside who hasnt paid.

I can't wait to visit next month to take our name of the wall of shame! We have witheld our second payment and are now 6 weeks overdue as we wanted some assurance that steps were being taken to collect the outstanding fees from the 16 owners who havent paid their first installment. I think its about time something was written into the sale contract that the fees are legally binding and perhaps if a new community is formed the first few years could be covered in the sale of the property to ensure that a community can be well and truly established before running into dificulties. I guess we have to realise that things in Spain take time.

Let's hope our little urbanisation in Catral surivies its first year as we feel we have grown to love our Spanish village and community in the sun and it would be a shame to see our communal areas deteriorate, so come on all you non payers don't spoil it for everyone else, these charges are only a fraction of what we pay in the UK!

I note that one community in Quesada issues keys to the pool area.  Only those that have paid their fees will be issued with a key.  I guess this means new locks every year (and the possibly hundreds of keys) and the admin nightmare of ensuring keys are issued to all the holiday makers coming in.  Seems to work for them, though.  We have a list of debtors posted around our community, on gate, notice boards etc, and I am constantly amazed at the number of defaulters and the length of time they have been on the list for.  I also think it a bit daft to run up such big bills when the six monthly fee (€200) is quite reasonable.  I wonder if they realise they won't be able to sell the property without a certificate to say that the fees are up to date?

I also think your administrators need a kick up the pants to chase up these defaulters who either do it because they are unaware (unlikely) or think they can get away with it.

Hi we have been told by our acting president that nothing can be done to recover fees until the AGM in May, we will have been established as a community for a year and I guess wil have more of an idea of what costs have been incurred througout the year etc, its difficult when your a holiday home owner as you don't get to know everything that is going on. I think that decisions have been made within our community without giving all owners the opportunity to comment.

Also it is very frustrating to think that facilities such as pool maintenance may be withdrawn if fees are not paid and the non payers should feel disgusted with themselves to have the audacitiy to use facilities they are not paying for. We have yet to pay our second half year payment as we wanted to find out what steps where going to be taken to recover the outstanding fees from the 16 owners who have yet to pay the first installment, however we will pay on our visit next week as we really dont want to see the community in trouble.

We would like to restrict pool use but understand that this is illegal, however, many of us owners are of the opinion if the owners are not willing to pay their fees, are unlikely to pay a solicitor to act on their behalf to be able to gain access to community facilities, so what do you do for the best......

I would imagine any community where about a third of all members are not paying their dues is going to run into difficulties pretty quickly, unless the annual budget was calculated anticipating this.

Definitely, the community should by now have started proceedings against the non-payers, especially since, as Karen said, it can take a long time to recover the outstanding debt through the legal process. I wasn't aware that communities can borrow money, since it is notoriously difficult to recover the money.

I'm sorry I can't offer any advice or reassurance either, but since you have a legitimate concern about the continuity of facilities, I would suggest you get in touch with your president and/or administrator ASAP to find out what's going on. Did the post on the community website not offer any insight into what course of action is planned? Maybe an emergency meeting is needed.

Unfortunately the only immediate solution that springs to mind is for the "good" payers to stump up next year's quota in advance to cover essential bills and maintenance, while the administrator sets about recovering the overdue amounts from the bad payers - hopefully plus a fine of some sort agreed by a vote at an emergency meeting.

I hope the situation gets resolved swiftly, and that it doesn't affect your rentals.

P.S. love your avatar - kind of sums up Spain at times!

P.S.S. interesting username, too. Curious place!

The community should have voted to take legal action against non-payers at an AGM, this gives the Presidente authority to act on the community's behalf ( although legal action takes an age in Spain )

The Administrators take their instruction from your elected Presidente.

It would have been handy if your Presidente had 'seen' this situation coming and adjusted the finances accordingly, ie., cut down on non-essentials or varied the contracts but it's probably too late for that now ( sorry if that's not reassuring!).

I don't know what can be done now cos it sounds as though you have big problems..................I know that communities can borrow money, but that is probably not a good idea in principal given your current economic situation.

You must approach your Presidente and / or Administrator and ask what contingency plans they have, especially as you have paid your fees..........you have a right to know where the money has gone and what will happen next.

Please let us know what happens.

Hi.  I know most of what I am about to ask has probaby been covered here or elsewhere but can anyone direct me to the thread or tell me what happens when the community finally runs out of money?  our president has just posted on our community website the fact that our community ( two blocks of apartments  about 75 in total) now has 2 euro's left in its accounts.!!  Over 20 owners have not paid fees since the start of the community in 2006 ( two years fees now outstanding).

Shouldn't the administrators have started proceedings long before this? 

What should the other community members now be asking of the president/administrator.?

We have paid our fees on first call each year, and are feeling really worried as we have a fairly full rental book from March to end of August, so if the community is unable to pay the bills for cleaning, pool maintenance, and lifts,  are we going to have to start cancelling bookings?

I'd be glad of some advice ( reasurrance wouldn't be bad either!!)

von

"I only wish I was in Spain full time and could be more active"

VOTE FOR LIZ!

LIZ FOR PRESIDENT!

(and Morerosado for VP!)

I'd like to commend Karensun & Roberto for all their endless advice on community problems ?

We got sick of the whole thing Roberto. What we agreed last AGM was if fees not paid by end of month following when they are due....add20%.....if not paid by end of following month, add 300€.............if we have to send Burofax for start of court proceedings.......add 700€.

This means we can go to court straight away as amount owing is over 300€ and then it's no cost to the Community.

As you say, the courts take strong views about not paying Comm Fees and although it takes a long time to get it sorted it is very very likely that the court will find against the debtor and punish the offender quite likely by putting an embargo on their property and ultimalely selling it by auction.

However, I think Liz's Urb will need to get some moneys in to keep the Community functional, perhaps their administrator can advise how to do this.

16 out of 63 is a pretty significant amount, and more than 6 months overdue too. Your community cannot hope to function properly with such debts. As Karen says, your only recourse is through the law, which takes a pretty grim view of non-payers of community charges. Your administrator should have already sent out  letters to the offending parties, explaning that legal action will be taken if they do not pay up. If there is still no result, then you must instruct the administrator to proceed with legal action. Ultimately, the owner's property can be confiscated and auctioned to cover the debt. Hopefully it won't come to that. In most instances, bad payers simply prefer to keep their money in their own dirty paws as long as possible, stupidly not thinking that by doing so they are only serving to damage their own community and therefore their own investment, but faced with legal action will probably cough up.

To try to encourage owners to pay on time in future, I suggest implementing a system which we have. Increase all quotas by 25%, and then offer a 20% discount to all members who pay by standing order, or who pay within the first 15 days of each payment period. Those who pay on time will therefore still pay the same amount, but any late payers will find themselves with an even bigger debt. It's a simple and not uncommon system for your administrator to introduce. We voted to implement this system at our last AGM, and lo and behold, every last one of the perpetual late payers now pay on time!

Liz, if you do that then those owners, paid or not can sue the Community and or the Presidente.

Your only recourse is to Law and it is a lengthy process that has to be agreed at your next AGM or EGM, without this Community majority agreement you can do nothing except possibly get your administrator to write to the debtors.

BUT, the Law states that you cannot with hold any Community benifits.